Expansion to 36, which city is number 36?

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LPHabsFan

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Surprised at Fertitta given past comments. My guess is this is just to get all the legwork done re BOG so they'd be ready for a possible relocation if it ends up happening.


Also the above....


Also also the results of the above which I find interesting. The results are in the attached picture.

“I don’t see a lot of guys that hated going to Arizona,” one player said. “Not always a lot of fans, but even one of my friends (who played there), he loved it in Arizona — the lifestyle and how it is down there. It is a good spot, but obviously, it’s got to be worth it as well.”

“Arizona just needs better owners,” another player said.

The same could be said for Atlanta. That’s why the NHL is entertaining a return to a northern suburb not far from where the Braves play. But there wasn’t as much passion about returning to a market that twice previously had NHL teams, perhaps in part because most NHL players now are too young to have played

“They’ve tried Atlanta twice, and it failed twice, and I love Arizona, but it hasn’t worked, and I don’t think a new stadium is going to change that unfortunately,” one player said.

Some don’t think the league should return to either. Here’s a sampling from four players:

“There’s a lot of other cities that would die to have an NHL team.”

“There’s a reason why it hasn’t worked before, so maybe try something new.”

“Let’s explore another U.S. market or Canada.”

“I feel like it’s not good when you come back to the same city you just left.”

Clayton Keller, who played all of his eight NHL seasons in Arizona before moving with the team to Utah, hopes the market gets another chance.

“It would be hard to not bring a team back there,” he said, answering the question knowing it would be attributed. “There’s so many great fans there and people around the organization: the Shane Doans, the Ray Whitneys, a lot of guys involved in the hockey community there still to do this day. There’s a long list of guys that still live there, their kids play there. It definitely would be amazing if they brought it back one day.”
 

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Melrose Munch

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Surprised at Fertitta given past comments. My guess is this is just to get all the legwork done re BOG so they'd be ready for a possible relocation if it ends up happening.


Also the above....


Also also the results of the above which I find interesting. The results are in the attached picture.
The lifestyle in Phoenix is a plus for many.
 

ponder719

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Jul 2, 2013
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Me too.
I'm surprised about the lacklustre response for Atlanta.

The article pointed out that a fairly significant chunk of players in the league today never played in Atlanta, and those that did mostly got there just as the wheels were coming off the situation. Add to that Atlanta not really having that same "working vacation" vibe you get in Phoenix, and there's no nostalgia there to boot those numbers.
 

Headshot77

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Feb 15, 2015
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Houston and Atlanta are #33 and #34

Portland has been a massively underserved market for a long time. San Diego has a vacuum with the Chargers leaving for LA. Nashville moves to the Eastern conference and Quebec becomes your relocation relief valve for any team instead of just an Eastern one.
 

Yukon Joe

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Houston and Atlanta are #33 and #34

Portland has been a massively underserved market for a long time. San Diego has a vacuum with the Chargers leaving for LA. Nashville moves to the Eastern conference and Quebec becomes your relocation relief valve for any team instead of just an Eastern one.

So there are definitely different ways of measuring a metro area, but here's what I used - Houston #5, Atlanta #6.


Portland comes in at #25 and does have the Trailblazers, while San Diego (#18) has the Padres. So I don't know about "massively underserved" or "vacuum". But more importantly - there doesn't seem to be anyone in either market looking to bring a hockey team to town.

I've never really bought that realignment is much of an issue for expansion, but Houston (Central) and Atlanta (Atlantic) means no re-alignment is necessary.
 

KevFu

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So, let's say the other leagues approve it and the NHL doesn't because Rogers says no to the ultimatum. Do they rework the deal so that Bell sells everything but their share of the Leafs?


I disagree. I do not think the league wants a 2nd team in toront/southern ontario. They want to expand into what they see as an untapped market.

I'll address these two, together. It doesn't really matter what the NHL wants to do AT THIS MOMENT with regards to expansion.

The only way into Southern Ontario, ever, is by first getting the Leafs to agree to a number. You're not trying to get a team in there right now, you're ONLY trying to get the number... as a math equation.

For that reason, the NHL isn't going to NOT APPROVE the Bell/Rogers transfer.

If you look at what the ratio of "Second most valuable to first most valuable" for the Big Four teams in two-team markets, the average is 54%.

So the NHL says "We want you to agree that your rights to GTA2 are worth 54% of your franchise value." The Leafs say hell no. And the NHL says "Well, what percentage do you feel is fair?" And they negotiate to something in between.

The NHL doesn't even have to play hard ball on the number; It's not their money. You just need it on paper that a team in GTA2 costs X percent of the valuation of the Leafs, and a team in Hamilton costs Y percent of a valuation of the Leafs.


It's not for the NHL to decide if it's worth it to buy a team there. It's just to answer the question of "If I wanted an NHL team in Toronto or Hamilton, how much would that cost me?"
 

rojac

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I'll address these two, together. It doesn't really matter what the NHL wants to do AT THIS MOMENT with regards to expansion.

The only way into Southern Ontario, ever, is by first getting the Leafs to agree to a number. You're not trying to get a team in there right now, you're ONLY trying to get the number... as a math equation.

For that reason, the NHL isn't going to NOT APPROVE the Bell/Rogers transfer.

If you look at what the ratio of "Second most valuable to first most valuable" for the Big Four teams in two-team markets, the average is 54%.

So the NHL says "We want you to agree that your rights to GTA2 are worth 54% of your franchise value." The Leafs say hell no. And the NHL says "Well, what percentage do you feel is fair?" And they negotiate to something in between.

The NHL doesn't even have to play hard ball on the number; It's not their money. You just need it on paper that a team in GTA2 costs X percent of the valuation of the Leafs, and a team in Hamilton costs Y percent of a valuation of the Leafs.

I still see no reason for Rogers to agree to that. And in fact if I was Rogers and the league tried to ull that kind of nonsense, I'd only agree to give such a number if a second GTA team was forced to be a tenant of the Leafs' arena for 30 years and that Rogers actually owns the regional broadcast rights for the new team.
 
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Yukon Joe

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The NHL doesn't even have to play hard ball on the number; It's not their money. You just need it on paper that a team in GTA2 costs X percent of the valuation of the Leafs, and a team in Hamilton costs Y percent of a valuation of the Leafs.


It's not for the NHL to decide if it's worth it to buy a team there. It's just to answer the question of "If I wanted an NHL team in Toronto or Hamilton, how much would that cost me?"

That's just not how contact law works though. This is first year law school contract law stuff - offer and acceptance.

Let's say I offer to sell you my house for one million dollars. I even do it up on a nice written contract just to avoid the statute of frauds. You say "no - well not right now at least".

One year later you say "OK here's my million dollars". It doesn't matter. By rejecting the offer the offer is now null and void.

Rogers/MLSE could say tomorrow they'd accept a Toronto 2 in exchange for 2 billion dollars. If no one is there to accept those words are mere puffery, with no legal significance.


[Again if you want to get into the legal weeds - in house sales you'd sometimes see realtors lowball listing their houses in hopes of generating a bidding war. I'd love to see someone walk up to the realtor with a bank draft for the listing price, no conditions, and say "I wish to accept your offer". I don't think it would work but by basic contract law it should]
 
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BKIslandersFan

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Long shots with a shot at a team

Oklahoma City
Milwaukee
Austin
Indianapolis
OKC - Not happening, its too small for both NBA and NHL.
Milwaukee- Too small for NBA, MLB and NHL.
Austin- Possible, but need arena and ownership group
Indianapolis- I think its too small for NBA, NFL and NHL, but if they get arena and ownership group, I guess it can happen.
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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OKC - Not happening, its too small for both NBA and NHL.
Milwaukee- Too small for NBA, MLB and NHL.
Austin- Possible, but need arena and ownership group
Indianapolis- I think its too small for NBA, NFL and NHL, but if they get arena and ownership group, I guess it can happen.
Not sure "too small" is a thing anymore with Salt Lake in the league.
 

rojac

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Not sure "too small" is a thing anymore with Salt Lake in the league.
If you go by meto popultaton, Salt Lake City is larger than Buffalo and ony slightly smallter than Raleigh.P

If yoy go by combined statistical area population which includes nearby metro areas, Salt Lake City is larger than Pittsburgh, Lss Vegas, Columbus, Nashville, Raleigh, and Buffalo and only slightly smaller than St. Louis.

 
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aqib

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Feb 13, 2012
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If you go by meto popultaton, Salt Lake City is larger than Buffalo and ony slightly smallter than Raleigh.P

If yoy go by combined statistical area population which includes nearby metro areas, Salt Lake City is larger than Pittsburgh, Lss Vegas, Columbus, Nashville, Raleigh, and Buffalo and only slightly smaller than St. Louis.


People don't factor in income. Salt Lake City's median household income is $72K while Buffalo and Raleigh is $42K.
 

Tawnos

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Sep 10, 2004
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So..... is Kroenke moving the Avs out of Colorado??? Or just selling them so he can spend $1.2-1.5 billion more just to get back in??

Those clips are from at least 7 months ago. The questions remain the same as they did then. How is Kroenke going to play getting a franchise in? Different ideas have been floated, but there won’t be any real movement on this until later down the road in the construction process.
 
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