Speculation: Expansion Draft - Part II

[Blue Shakehead]

What was Perreault doing at the start of the year?

Busy playing injuried and still waaaaay better than Lowry? What did I win?

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

We're going to be losing one of: Perrault, Dano, Armia, Copp or Lowry.

It seems like people still don't get that.

 

[Gil Fisher]

We're going to be losing one of: Perrault, Dano, Armia, Copp or Lowry.

It seems like people still don't get that.

Why? Why not Myers? Why not trade Myers and a forward and lose Matthias?

I think we get the possibilities.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Busy playing injuried and still waaaaay better than Lowry? What did I win?

You mean the same Perreault that didn't show up till the end of the season. The same injured for 15 to 20 games every year guy?

I like Perreault but the guy is far more replaceable then Lowry is. I also know who is far more valuable out there to teams too and it isn't Matthieu.

 

[Gm0ney]

You mean the same Perreault that didn't show up till the end of the season. The same injured for 15 to 20 games every year guy?

I like Perreault but the guy is far more replaceable then Lowry is. I also know who is far more valuable out there to teams too and it isn't Matthieu.

Big centers who can't score are in high demand? Let the Brian Boyle sweepstakes begin!

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Big centers who can't score are in high demand? Let the Brian Boyle sweepstakes begin!

Boyle has a couple of Stanley cups and has been traded a couple times for not a bad return for a 4th line center.

I think Perreault is probably similar Value maybe less now after this contract extension. Teams let guys like him walk all the time. The Penguins are going to let Hornqvist or Hagelin walk because they have too and they also know that their centers are far more important to keep.

I don't think the Jets are hoping Vegas nabs Perreault but the reality is they would almost 100 percent take Lowry off our hands

 

[allan5oh]

Wouldn't it be funny after all of this they select Paul Postma?

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Wouldn't it be funny after all of this they select Paul Postma?

He isn't signed

 

[ffh]

He isn't signed

They can still take him

 

[Joe Hallenback]

They can still take him

As an UFA. He wouldn't count as the one signed player they have to take

 

[ffh]

As an UFA. He wouldn't count as the one signed player they have to take

It would count as our player. They could not choose another player. Player doesn't have to be signed for vegas to take. You are probably thinking of needing 2 signed players for the minimum requirements. That would be mathias and dano. But vegas could still take postma as a ufa.

 

[mcpw]

An impact player is not more easily replacable than a fourth line center.

 

[Jetsfan79]

Just noticed that if Dano played 3 fewer games last year he would not of qualified for the 70 games in the last 2 years requirement. Jets were almost forced to give Thorborn an extension if they go 7-3.....that was close.

 

[Lempo]

As an UFA. He wouldn't count as the one signed player they have to take

It would count as our player. They could not choose another player. Player doesn't have to be signed for vegas to take. You are probably thinking of needing 2 signed players for the minimum requirements. That would be mathias and dano. But vegas could still take postma as a ufa.

Vegas can take an unprotected Free Agent by signing him during the 72 hours window (and only by that way) and if they do, it counts as the pick from that team. He'd be signed at the time when Vegas will announce their team on 21st.

 

[ffh]

An impact player is not more easily replacable than a fourth line center.

4th line centres don't score 15 goals and play against other teams top lines.

 

[Whileee]

Just noticed that if Dano played 3 fewer games last year he would not of qualified for the 70 games in the last 2 years requirement. Jets were almost forced to give Thorborn an extension if they go 7-3.....that was close.

I'm pretty sure the Jets knew that. I think they also played Stuart for a stretch early in the season to ensure he qualified. It became a moot point when they needed to play him due to injuries.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

We're going to be losing one of: Perrault, Dano, Armia, Copp or Lowry.

It seems like people still don't get that.

One of these things is not like the other.

I seriously can't believe how undervalued Perreault is around here.

 

[Whileee]

Lowry was the the AHL 18 months ago and didn't look at all out of place. Dime a dozen ineffective grinder who can't score and a 45% possession player who gets his lunch fed to him on the regular because he's over his head. Played about 20 good games last year, mostly against Injury depleted teams like Dallas when he was matched up against other ineffective grinders.

Chevy and you and whoever else thinks he's more valuable than Perreault have a clear valuation problem. There's no need for the "air quotes" here, because it's not an allegation, it's historical fact. Just google Mark Stuart.

50% CF with the Jets. At least try to get the stats close to correct.

My point was that whatever the true valuation, I think many if not most teams would give up more value in trade for Lowry than for Perreault. I think that valuation is incorrect, but I think it's how most NHL teams would see it.

Remember, the Caps and Ducks let Perreault go for nothing, and the Jets, of all teams, were able to outbid every other team in free agency with a $3m offer. The Jets aren't the only team with a "valuation problem", and history indicates that they value Perreault higher than the rest of the NHL. That's why he's on the Jets.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

As an UFA. He wouldn't count as the one signed player they have to take

There's no rule that you have to take one signed player from each team. They have to select a minimum of 20 players under contract for next season.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

50% CF with the Jets. At least try to get the stats close to correct.

46% CF% last year, adjusted for score effects. Maybe you should take your own advice.

My point was that whatever the true valuation, I think many if not most teams would give up more value in trade for Lowry than for Perreault. I think that valuation is incorrect, but I think it's how most NHL teams would see it.

Let me see if I have this right: you think the valuation of Lowry > Perreault is incorrect. However, you think it's very reasonable for Chevy to hold this incorrect valuation based on your hunch, with no supporting evidence, that other GMs are equally as inept at player valuations and overvalue Lowry?

Wouldn't the smart move be to capitalize on this market inefficiency by trading the easily replaceable Lowry for something better? Of course for that to happen, we would need a GM that doesn't already overvalue Lowry, wouldn't we? Which brings us full circle to you defending a valuation you don't agree with for reasons only you could understand.

 

[Aavco Cup]

As an UFA. He wouldn't count as the one signed player they have to take

Yes he would. They could even sign him during their free agent window and that would be considered their pick from the Jets. They could also pick Pavelec or Thorburn or sign them during the window.

 

[Lempo]

Yes he would. They could even sign him during their free agent window and that would be considered their pick from the Jets. They could also pick Pavelec or Thorburn or sign them during the window.

I am in understanding that the only way VGK can pick a Free Agent is by signing them during the 72 hour window. They can't take a player to be "their" RFA/UFA wh they could then try signing later on; there needs to be ink on the contract at the time when Vegas submits their 30 picks 10 am ET June 21st, and they need to submit these contracts at the same time to the league.

I believe the "at least 20 players under contract for 2017-18" stipulation effectively means that there are max 10 Free Agents slots Vegas is allowed to fill, but that Vegas will on June 21st have all their 30 picks under contract to them. Would be mucho awkward for the league if Vegas didn't have a full roster in July and were desperately scraping for any Free Agent to play for them to even have team to ice.

 

[Aavco Cup]

I am in understanding that the only way VGK can pick a Free Agent is by signing them during the 72 hour window. They can't take a player to be "their" RFA/UFA wh they could then try signing later on; there needs to be ink on the contract at the time when Vegas submits their 30 picks 10 am ET June 21st, and they need to submit these contracts at the same time to the league.

I believe the "at least 20 players under contract for 2017-18" stipulation effectively means that there are max 10 Free Agents slots Vegas is allowed to fill, but that Vegas will on June 21st have all their 30 picks under contract to them. Would be mucho awkward for the league if Vegas didn't have a full roster in July and were desperately scraping for any Free Agent to play for them to even have team to ice.

That is not correct. There is no restriction on picking any UFA or RFA. They could for instance select Copp if unprotected and then he would be on their reserve list. They would give him a QO and proceed normally.

They could select a UFA. They would still have exclusive neg rights until July 1. Maybe they didn't quite sign a player in the window but still believe they can. Or they have reached their salary limit so need to wait to sign. This is much less likely but not prohibited.

The only rule is 20 player must be under contract in 2017/18. If they sign a free agent in the window they are under contract.

 

[Lempo]

The rule of "minimum 20 players signed for 2017-18" has been in the Expansion Draft rules since June 2016 already in these words; the Free Agent negotiation window came in only later, first in 48-hour variety before being extended to 72 hours, and should be understood as a clarification to where Vegas would get the max 10 of others then.

NHL.com has this to say about important dates:

Wednesday, June 21 - Deadline for the Expansion Club to simultaneously submit its Expansion Draft Selections to Central Registry and the NHLPA (10 a.m. ET).

Deadline for the Expansion Club to submit SPCs for any pending UFA/RFAs who are selected by the Expansion Club and signed to a new contract (10 a.m. ET). The Expansion Club is permitted to sign a current or pending Free Agent on a Current Club's list of Available Players during the period between 10:01 a.m. ET on Sunday, June 18, and 9:59 a.m. ET on Wednesday, June 21, and in so doing will be deemed to have made its Expansion Draft selection from such Current Club. If the Expansion Club signs a Restricted Free Agent from the Available List of a Current Club during said period, the Current Club will not be entitled to any compensation from the Expansion Club.

With the rules being this strict, I think it means they can't pick a Free Agent and then leave him pending for themselves to await if they can later on agree on a contract; it would make no sense to have a deadline for the submission of the Standard Player Contracts in that case because they should obviously be allowed to sign "their" FA at any point.

At 10 am ET June 21st any RFA or UFA not signed by Vegas will again be exclusively available for negotiation for their controlling team only, according to the normal dates of Free Agency (=starting July 1st everyone and Vegas can have go at them according to the usual FA rules).

 

[Lempo]

That is not correct. There is no restriction on picking any UFA or RFA. They could for instance select Copp if unprotected and then he would be on their reserve list. They would give him a QO and proceed normally.

They could select a UFA. They would still have exclusive neg rights until July 1. Maybe they didn't quite sign a player in the window but still believe they can. Or they have reached their salary limit so need to wait to sign. This is much less likely but not prohibited.

The only rule is 20 player must be under contract in 2017/18. If they sign a free agent in the window they are under contract.

I admit I'm not 100 % certain and that's because the XD rules are released stupidly and through second hand sources to the public. Some say "Vegas can during the 72 hour window try sign any Free Agent, and if they do then that player counts as their pick", some say orherwise, and nowhere is the goddamn NHL official rule sheet on the matter available for downloading.

That NHL.com piece for example says that
"(t)he Expansion Club is permitted to sign a current or pending Free Agent on a Current Club's list of Available Players during the period between 10:01 a.m. ET on Sunday, June 18, and 9:59 a.m. ET on Wednesday, June 21". This is probably an excerpt from the Official Rules TM, and lets us understand that Vegas is not allowed to do that any other time after that, and that effectively they so couldn't reserve a Free Agent for themselves for later signing in the XD.

"If the Expansion Club signs a Restricted Free Agent from the Available List of a Current Club during said period, the Current Club will not be entitled to any compensation from the Expansion Club." So, signing one at any other period will make the Current Club entitled to the usual compensation in Entry Draft picks?

What we get is diluted **** through journos who mess up the ever-so-important wordings, because of the 140-mark limit, and so we can't know if there are other FA specific clauses in the Official XD Rules that tell the terms of drafting a player as FA.

It's like the ELC bonus rules; trying to explain them in your own words as an abridged version only irreparably messes it up for everyone.