OT: Everything COVID19 - PART 5

[Xspyrit]

I'm not talking about parties, though. I am talking about trick or treating , in the tradition that we all know

The regular outdoor ToT could have happened but like I mentionned in my first post, that's a lot of management, time and ressources country wide. With spread hours and some kind of "fluidity", that could have worked without too much risk

Since March I have been thinking "forget 2020 and normal life". All I am hoping is sometime in 2021, we can really get it under control. But with the growing population in "disbelief" I am kinda losing hope every day. In the end, it will have lasted a lot longer because some people don't trust anything (until it hit them in the face)

 

[Sens]

Close Halloween but allow reopening of dance

lol

 

[DaveMatthew]

But with the growing population in "disbelief" I am kinda losing hope every day. In the end, it will have lasted a lot longer because some people don't trust anything (until it hit them in the face)

I don't think it's fair to chalk this up to "personal responsibility", even though that's what governments and agencies have been doing to distract from their own incompetence.

Are some people skirting the rules and being reckless? Sure. You see #covidiots in the news and on Twitter.

But the majority of people want to stay safe, and are doing their absolute best.

Unfortunately, they've been fed a steady stream of conflicting information from federal, provincial and local governments and agencies, who's only response has been reflexive, performative measures. They can't align on data, they can't align on policy, and after 8 months, have completely failed at standing up an effective testing and contact tracing program, which, beyond a vaccine, IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN CONTROLLING THE SPREAD OF THIS.

This will not have lasted a lot longer because of the public. This will have lasted a lot longer because of the failure of our elected officials.

The worst part is, in 2022, when the dust has settled, there will be thousands dead, businesses and livelihoods will have been destroyed, but government officials will all congratulate each other for the "heroic" work.

And yeah, we are better off than the US. But just because there's a kitchen fire next door being doused with gasoline, it doesn't mean our governments have handled this well.

 

[DrEasy]

In any case, regardless of whose fault it is, hospitalization numbers are rising. Case numbers are up while test numbers are down. Not good. Let's remain careful.

 

[Xspyrit]

I don't think it's fair to chalk this up to "personal responsibility", even though that's what governments and agencies have been doing to distract from their own incompetence.

Are some people skirting the rules and being reckless? Sure. You see #covidiots in the news and on Twitter.

But the majority of people want to stay safe, and are doing their absolute best.

Unfortunately, they've been fed a steady stream of conflicting information from federal, provincial and local governments and agencies, who's only response has been reflexive, performative measures. They can't align on data, they can't align on policy, and after 8 months, have completely failed at standing up an effective testing and contact tracing program, which, beyond a vaccine, IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN CONTROLLING THE SPREAD OF THIS.

This will not have lasted a lot longer because of the public. This will have lasted a lot longer because of the failure of our elected officials.

The worst part is, in 2022, when the dust has settled, there will be thousands dead, businesses and livelihoods will have been destroyed, but government officials will all congratulate each other for the "heroic" work.

And yeah, we are better off than the US. But just because there's a kitchen fire next door being doused with gasoline, it doesn't mean our governments have handled this well.

Of course, nobody is protected from incompetency, it's basically everywhere. But it's a global pandemic, every country is affected. You'll have governments that are dealing with it more efficiently, some worse. I don't think we have it the worse here. Look at Brazil and USA for example

I'll have to disagree that it won't have lasted longer because of the "public", because even if people working for the governments are contradicting themselves, are corrupted or just incompetent, absolutely everyone is responsible for helping flattening the curve, and it has been like that since the very beginning. There is countless videos of people being careless.

There is also countless examples of people not "believing" in it being a dangerous virus and not doing anything to help. We have seen some people being very vocal on how it was a fake virus and eventually got it and died.

I have never said the Canada governement has handled it perfectly. I never expected them to do so as well. A lot of things in society are messed up. I didn't expect it to be handled differently.

Problem with something like this is you'd need 100% of people "doing it right". Even if you have 99 bars or restaurants respecting protocols, it just take 1 doing it wrong to create a problem.

 

[Dingle]

check all death total curves. All plateaued in late May of 2020. Since, very little death has been added (little in comparison to those added in March, April and early May). All the while, infection rates from early August until today have skyrocketed. In some nations the death rate in 1/100 th of that seen in March/April/May.

politicians are using fear mongering to further their own agendas and other agendas not linked to the good of the people. This is tragic and shameful. Trudeau and Ford were enjoying a boom in their popularity in March/April and a sharp decline in June and July. Create panic and we tend to look favorably at leaders because of perceived leadership. Wartime politicians/leaders inevitably get re-elected, or if they are dictators/permanent leaders, their popularity often soars.

Early concern and early actions were correct and necessary, what is happening today is akin to yelling; fire in a crowded room.

Please stop fear mongering and stop feeding the fear and paranoia. Examine the records for yourselves. Again, in some nation 1/100th the death rate and only marginally above that of the flue.

those 18 around Trump that got it...None died, even though the bulk were above 65....remember Ford's mother in-law...95 years old..she is still with us... Now go check Ford's popularity in July.

 

[SPF6ty9]

2020 really sucks. I’m not sure I want to live in a world with no Halloween and no all you can eat chinese buffets.

Damn 2020, it's a sad time when Halloween falls on a time change Saturday with what would have been an extra hour of bars being open and gets cancelled. Another kick in the nuts delivered by this year.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

They can go without Halloween trick or treating for a year.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Of course, nobody is protected from incompetency, it's basically everywhere. But it's a global pandemic, every country is affected. You'll have governments that are dealing with it more efficiently, some worse. I don't think we have it the worse here. Look at Brazil and USA for example

I'll have to disagree that it won't have lasted longer because of the "public", because even if people working for the governments are contradicting themselves, are corrupted or just incompetent, absolutely everyone is responsible for helping flattening the curve, and it has been like that since the very beginning. There is countless videos of people being careless.

There is also countless examples of people not "believing" in it being a dangerous virus and not doing anything to help. We have seen some people being very vocal on how it was a fake virus and eventually got it and died.

I have never said the Canada governement has handled it perfectly. I never expected them to do so as well. A lot of things in society are messed up. I didn't expect it to be handled differently.

Problem with something like this is you'd need 100% of people "doing it right". Even if you have 99 bars or restaurants respecting protocols, it just take 1 doing it wrong to create a problem.

You don't need 100% of people "doing it right". There will always be deniers and conspiracy theorists.

You need mask mandates and enforcement
You need easy access to testing and results turned around with 12-24 hours.
You need sophisticated contact tracing
You need transparency and rapid data-sharing between municipalities, provinces and agencies
You need alignment between policy-makers and front-line workers
You need different restrictions for different groups, based on risk factors
You need a consistent, data-driven message coming from officials

We know all this, and have known it for months. Some of it we did too late, some of it we're still not doing.

We opened schools when we had a testing infrastructure that resulted in wait-times of 7+ hours and turnaround times for results of 7+ days, effectively rendering the tests useless. Surprise! There's been an uptick in cases!

Instead of pragmatic, thought-out measures, we have contradictory policies and fear stoking.

 

[Xspyrit]

check all death total curves. All plateaued in late May of 2020. Since, very little death has been added (little in comparison to those added in March, April and early May). All the while, infection rates from early August until today have skyrocketed. In some nations the death rate in 1/100 th of that seen in March/April/May.

politicians are using fear mongering to further their own agendas and other agendas not linked to the good of the people. This is tragic and shameful. Trudeau and Ford were enjoying a boom in their popularity in March/April and a sharp decline in June and July. Create panic and we tend to look favorably at leaders because of perceived leadership. Wartime politicians/leaders inevitably get re-elected, or if they are dictators/permanent leaders, their popularity often soars.

Early concern and early actions were correct and necessary, what is happening today is akin to yelling; fire in a crowded room.

Please stop fear mongering and stop feeding the fear and paranoia. Examine the records for yourselves. Again, in some nation 1/100th the death rate and only marginally above that of the flue.

those 18 around Trump that got it...None died, even though the bulk were above 65....remember Ford's mother in-law...95 years old..she is still with us... Now go check Ford's popularity in July.

"Fear mongering"... well I don't watch a lot of news and TV so it's very possible that they have well exaggerated but personally I never felt like that. I checked death rates per group age and other scientific facts and know it's mostly dangerous for older people or people with a weak immune system or health complications. But even knowing that, I have been extremely careful, I don't want to be spreading this thing to people that could die from it, or have more health problems if they survive. That's what my conscience tells me. So I have been extremely careful and haven't been in anyone's bubble (outside of my family bubble) since even before the government asked for confinement. For me, it's my responsibility as an human being. Maybe I'm different but that's how I think. I was ready to restrain my "freedom" to not put others at risk.

But regarding "Fear mongering", even if you tell me to be super scared of this or that, I still have my own free will and in the end I decide how things affect me. It's a choice.

You don't need 100% of people "doing it right". There will always be deniers and conspiracy theorists.

You need mask mandates and enforcement
You need easy access to testing and results turned around with 12-24 hours.
You need sophisticated contact tracing
You need transparency and rapid data-sharing between municipalities, provinces and agencies
You need alignment between policy-makers and front-line workers
You need different restrictions for different groups, based on risk factors
You need a consistent, data-driven message coming from officials

We know all this, and have known it for months. Some of it we did too late, some of it we're still not doing.

We opened schools when we had a testing infrastructure that resulted in wait-times of 7+ hours and turnaround times for results of 7+ days, effectively rendering the tests useless. Surprise! There's been an uptick in cases!

Instead of pragmatic, thought-out measures, we have contradictory policies and fear stoking.

Yeah but you know the reality is no one has experience or has been even trained to manage a pandemic. When you work "in the wheel", it all comes down to leadership and it's not that suprising if there is a lack of leadership and directives. Most people work and do "what they are supposed to do". You can't expect every employee to have a lot of initiative and fix all the problems. The more leadership and the more competency people in decision making positions will have, the better you will be able to manage a crisis of that amplitude. It certainly hasn't been perfect but it also could have been even worse. They would do probably better the 2nd time but frankly, I don't want to know as I'd rather not see another pandemic.

Like I said, I didn't expect better management from the government.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Fatigue is setting in and that goes for believers and non believers.

 

[Stylizer1]

It's already very hard to manage everything, I don't think the governement wants to take additional charge and risks with managing a whole country event like the Halloween. Time and ressources can be invested in more important stuff.

They already have their hands full with conspirationists, nonconformists, unconscious people and super selfish people who don't care about other's health.

You hear the government beg everyday to the population to be careful and keep their distance, to help them stop the spreading. Here we are 8 months later. Some still haven't figured out how we should stop a virus with no vaccine from spreading

And yet, you hear some people tell us how the government is acting like a dictatorship. I don't think these people are aware of what a totalitarian regime really is. I feel 100% free from where I stand, even if I wear a mask when I enter a store.

This whole thing sucks but we're organizing some kind of trick-or-treat treasure hunt in the house. Hopefully the kids enjoy it as much


===========================

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/qanon-quebec-anti-mask-conspiracy-theory-violence-1.5726891

"A poll conducted last month for Montreal's La Presse newspaper suggested 35 per cent of the population believe mainstream media outlets are spreading false information about COVID-19; 18 per cent believe the pandemic is a tool created by governments to control them"

Adults don't need the government to tell them how to live.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Close Halloween but allow reopening of dance

lol

What's the "reopening of dance" that's referred to here?

 

[Stylizer1]

I agree 100% and kids are at school... so what's the difference.

Just some people will definitely will be at increased risk from a bunch of kid going to the door. not every person is going to have a 6' long pipe to deliver candy.

Increased risk = don't give candy.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Fatigue is setting in and that goes for believers and non believers.

The lord hears your prayer

 

[Stylizer1]

What's the "reopening of dance" that's referred to here?

A kid wrote a letter to Ford saying who she needs to dance for her mental health and he said ok

 

[Sens]

What's the "reopening of dance" that's referred to here?

in the hotspots of Toronto they recommended no Halloween while simultaneously opening up dance studios

 

[foggyvisor]

Please stop fear mongering and stop feeding the fear and paranoia. Examine the records for yourselves. Again, in some nation 1/100th the death rate and only marginally above that of the flue.

Can you please substantiate your claims on COVID being only "marginally" more fatal than the flu?

those 18 around Trump that got it...None died, even though the bulk were above 65....remember Ford's mother in-law...95 years old..she is still with us... Now go check Ford's popularity in July.

This is a bad sample and terrible way to measure the danger of the virus. Trump got put on oxygen a couple of times and was on dexamethasone. And all these people are getting A+ medical care because they're rich and important. Do you know what this virus is doing in poor, dense neighborhoods?

 

[foggyvisor]

The people in health care. In labs. Renowned Public Health experts at U of T. Talk to them. They all know what they need to make testing and tracing work. They never got it. They're barely engaged as stakeholders. It's a failure of government. They sat on money and shunned people who needed to be at the table.

I mean, have you watched Dr. David Williams? Dude has been in over his head since day 1, and he's still on the job. A terrible communicator.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I'm a big believer in listening tot he experts. But talking about trick or treating...to me, it's incredibly low risk. It's equal to walking in the park for exercise and walking past a few other strollers. As long as the kids and people at the door are wearing masks, and you let the candy sit for a day (or maybe a few days just to be sure) before you dive into it, then you should be fine. And you don't need a long tube to deliver candy...jut drop it in the bag as normal. Kids are at the door for a few seconds and outside.

Oh, and the reason deaths are going down, is our treatments are getting better. And because a greater percentage of those infected are younger people. The first wave hit the nursing homes hard...now protocols are a bit better and those places are making sure they aren't the next ones making news for a big outbreak.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

....and you let the candy sit for a day (or maybe a few days just to be sure) before you dive into it.....

Hah!

 

[Xspyrit]

Adults don't need the government to tell them how to live.

From what I have seen, some absolutely do. That's why memes like that exist

Adults shouldn't be sucked into ridiculous conspiracy theories either but here we are. Some people just can't think for themselves, they are being told what to think. The irony is that they think they are actually marginals and "going against the grain" but they are actually brainwashed by these disinformation campains. The world is already a big mess as it is. Corruption, murder, rape, money, power, war, terrorism, genocide, fraud etc all this is shit is real and doesn't need to come with a conspiracy. Greedy people don't need to build conspiracies, they already take whatever they can.

 

[Stylizer1]

From what I have seen, some absolutely do. That's why memes like that exist

Adults shouldn't be sucked into ridiculous conspiracy theories either but here we are. Some people just can't think for themselves, they are being told what to think. The irony is that they think they are actually marginals and "going against the grain" but they are actually brainwashed by these disinformation campains. The world is already a big mess as it is. Corruption, murder, rape, money, power, war, terrorism, genocide, fraud etc all this is shit is real and doesn't need to come with a conspiracy. Greedy people don't need to build conspiracies, they already take whatever they can.

You keep talking about conspiracy theories and yet no one brings them up. It's about personal choice adults can make for themselves.

 

[Stylizer1]

Trump got put on oxygen a couple of times and was on dexamethasone.

Or he wasn't