Player Discussion Evander Kane - Part 4

[Jame]

William Carrier and Steve Bernier are the types of prospects you get back in rental trades... not blue chips, not grade A prospects... but 2nd/3rd tier guys....

 

[Husko]

William Carrier and Steve Bernier are the types of prospects you get back in rental trades... not blue chips, not grade A prospects... but 2nd/3rd tier guys....

Or you can get other team's Nylanders.

Hudson Fasching was a pretty good get for a rental trade.

I've said before, I'd love to get a couple Carrier/Fasching type defensive prospects.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Or you can get other team's Nylanders.

Hudson Fasching was a pretty good get for a rental trade.

I've said before, I'd love to get a couple Carrier/Fasching type defensive prospects.

McNabb and 2 2nds isnt a rental trade

But you aren't getting good players in a rental trade for Kane. The good player is the 1st rounder. The prospect is the bottom rung in stacked system or a player that the team doesn't thing has a shot anymore. The player is a depth body. Any Kane trade and you should be happy to get the 1st and hope that someone else in the deal plays a few years in the bottom 6.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Or you can get other team's Nylanders.

Hudson Fasching was a pretty good get for a rental trade.

I've said before, I'd love to get a couple Carrier/Fasching type defensive prospects.

The Hudson Fasching trade was a disaster, please don't bring it up as anything positive.

 

[OkimLom]

The Hudson Fasching trade was a disaster, please don't bring it up as anything positive.

How was it a Disaster?

 

[SabresFan26]

The Hudson Fasching trade was a disaster, please don't bring it up as anything positive.

I'm no fan of Tim Murray but disaster seems a little dramatic. It was a losing deal but not disaster.

We traded

Jonathan Parker, Brayden McNabb, 2 2nd round picks (Alex Lintuniemi and Erik Cernak)

for

Hudson Fasching and Nic Deslauriers

Fasching may never be a full time NHLer as he is struggling to get consistency although he played well in his first few games but that group of RWers seems no one can really take a spot and stay up. I still think he will get another look and perhaps be able to carve out a bottom 9 role. Deslauriers was a solid 13/14 forward (who now has 6 goals in 25 games for Montreal) and was traded for Redmond

McNabb is a solid defenseman and wold be better than quite a few in our top 6 and was the best player in the deal. Parker was an ECHL contract to move. The 2 2nd round picks are ok with Cernak being a little ahead of Lintuniemi and have a respectable year in Syracuse.

I'd argue that Murray's deal with Winnipeg was worse and poor asset managment.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I'm no fan of Tim Murray but disaster seems a little dramatic. It was a losing deal but not disaster.

We traded

Jonathan Parker, Brayden McNabb, 2 2nd round picks (Alex Lintuniemi and Erik Cernak)

for

Hudson Fasching and Nic Deslauriers

Fasching may never be a full time NHLer as he is struggling to get consistency although he played well in his first few games but that group of RWers seems no one can really take a spot and stay up. I still think he will get another look and perhaps be able to carve out a bottom 9 role. Deslauriers was a solid 13/14 forward (who now has 6 goals in 25 games for Montreal) and was traded for Redmond

McNabb is a solid defenseman and wold be better than quite a few in our top 6 and was the best player in the deal. Parker was an ECHL contract to move. The 2 2nd round picks are ok with Cernak being a little ahead of Lintuniemi and have a respectable year in Syracuse.

I'd argue that Murray's deal with Winnipeg was worse and poor asset managment.

We could have used the 2nds on non-busts. You can't point to poor drafting from another team on 2 relatively high picks and say "see it wasn't so bad". It was a really bad trade. I don't believe Fasching will ever be anything of substance and McNabb is the better piece of the two right now. 2 2nds for D'Lo doesn't require commenting on.

 

[OkimLom]

I'm no fan of Tim Murray but disaster seems a little dramatic. It was a losing deal but not disaster.

We traded

Jonathan Parker, Brayden McNabb, 2 2nd round picks (Alex Lintuniemi and Erik Cernak)

for

Hudson Fasching and Nic Deslauriers

Fasching may never be a full time NHLer as he is struggling to get consistency although he played well in his first few games but that group of RWers seems no one can really take a spot and stay up. I still think he will get another look and perhaps be able to carve out a bottom 9 role. Deslauriers was a solid 13/14 forward (who now has 6 goals in 25 games for Montreal) and was traded for Redmond

McNabb is a solid defenseman and wold be better than quite a few in our top 6 and was the best player in the deal. Parker was an ECHL contract to move. The 2 2nd round picks are ok with Cernak being a little ahead of Lintuniemi and have a respectable year in Syracuse.

I'd argue that Murray's deal with Winnipeg was worse and poor asset managment.

I'd argue the 2 2nds were probably more valuable and better than McNabb(it only took McNabb a few more years and the right coaching staff to correct him as a player, he was horrible in our organization, and his role of "DEPTH" wasn't at a point of worrisome than it would be today) was at the time of the trade.

As for the Winnipeg asset breakdown, I touched upon it earlier in this thread. I would do that deal even if I had the knowledge of how it would turn out.

The problems with Murray was allowing his moves and the impact of his moves to breathe a little. You could say he did TOO MUCH TOO SOON. And his biggest mistake was hiring Bylsma.

 

[joshjull]

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

All we need is 1 taker. Still hoping on 1st+B prospect+conditional 2nd or something like that.

 

[joshjull]

All we need is 1 taker. Still hoping on 1st+B prospect+conditional 2nd or something like that.

The roster player would be more of a need than the conditional pick. Which would hinge on Kane re-signing wherever he gets traded (at least that's what has been reported). Something that is hardly a given. We want at least a place holder roster player as part of the return to keep things as is with the Amerks.

 

[HaNotsri]

I’m gonna miss Evander. He’s a symbol for all that never was.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

The roster player would be more of a need than the conditional pick. Which would hinge on Kane re-signing wherever he gets traded (at least that's what has been reported). Something that is hardly a given. We want at least a place holder roster player as part of the return to keep things as is with the Amerks.

I don't see this as a major issue. We can call up someone like Bailey without impacting Rochester in a major way. I'd rather take a prospect on, than a mediocre roster player just to ensure some form of short term success in Rochester. But that may just be me and I can see how Botts or other can see it differently.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Moskau]

So Dreger wants us to believe teams are now going through him to gauge value on guys around the league instead of... I don't know, picking up the phone and calling the GM of the guy shopping him? The guy is a joke.

You can read between the lines on what LeBrun, McKenzie and Dreger have reported. If it's a team that needs salary retained Botterill is asking for more. If it's a team that doesn't Botterill is asking for less. He will drag it out until a few days before the deadline until someone budges.

 

[joshjull]

So Dreger wants us to believe teams are now going through him to gauge value on guys around the league instead of... I don't know, picking up the phone and calling the GM of the guy shopping him? The guy is a joke.

You can read between the lines on what LeBrun, McKenzie and Dreger have reported. If it's a team that needs salary retained Botterill is asking for more. If it's a team that doesn't Botterill is asking for less. He will drag it out until a few days before the deadline until someone budges.

Keep in mind he said the value we are asking for was from another team not us. I get the sense he isn't getting much info on us from us.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

I'm no fan of Tim Murray but disaster seems a little dramatic. It was a losing deal but not disaster.

We traded

Jonathan Parker, Brayden McNabb, 2 2nd round picks (Alex Lintuniemi and Erik Cernak)

for

Hudson Fasching and Nic Deslauriers

Fasching may never be a full time NHLer as he is struggling to get consistency although he played well in his first few games but that group of RWers seems no one can really take a spot and stay up. I still think he will get another look and perhaps be able to carve out a bottom 9 role. Deslauriers was a solid 13/14 forward (who now has 6 goals in 25 games for Montreal) and was traded for Redmond

McNabb is a solid defenseman and wold be better than quite a few in our top 6 and was the best player in the deal. Parker was an ECHL contract to move. The 2 2nd round picks are ok with Cernak being a little ahead of Lintuniemi and have a respectable year in Syracuse.

I'd argue that Murray's deal with Winnipeg was worse and poor asset managment.

McNabb and 2 2nds for Fasching and a bust.....disaster

 

[Zip15]

So Dreger wants us to believe teams are now going through him to gauge value on guys around the league instead of... I don't know, picking up the phone and calling the GM of the guy shopping him? The guy is a joke.

You can read between the lines on what LeBrun, McKenzie and Dreger have reported. If it's a team that needs salary retained Botterill is asking for more. If it's a team that doesn't Botterill is asking for less. He will drag it out until a few days before the deadline until someone budges.

Keep in mind he said the value we are asking for was from another team not us. I get the sense he isn't getting much info on us from us.

I agree that it's doubtful that team officials are reading Dreger's reports and effectively withdrawing their team from consideration. Most front offices have guys who'd recognize a number of variables at play. Was the roster player an impact player or a salary dump to make the deal work and to keep players in Rochester? Was the prospect an A-level prospect, or a B- or C-level player? Was the fourth piece simply a conditional pick based on re-signing, which a rental team may have no interest in doing.

Teams aren't saying "forget it, I'm out" without talking to Jason Botterill first and assessing what the cost would be for THEIR team.

 

[joshjull]

Twitchy you say

 

[SabresFan26]

People talk about seeing the Houlsey thread hoping it says fired. When I see the Kane thread everyday I keep hoping it says trade confirmed with link.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

People talk about seeing the Houlsey thread hoping it says fired. When I see the Kane thread everyday I keep hoping it says trade confirmed with link.

Pretty sure every single one of us is this way about Kane and for Housley there may be 1 or 2 odd men out...that's the state of this franchise, f***ing sad story.

 

[stokes84]

So Dreger wants us to believe teams are now going through him to gauge value on guys around the league instead of... I don't know, picking up the phone and calling the GM of the guy shopping him? The guy is a joke.

You can read between the lines on what LeBrun, McKenzie and Dreger have reported. If it's a team that needs salary retained Botterill is asking for more. If it's a team that doesn't Botterill is asking for less. He will drag it out until a few days before the deadline until someone budges.

It's pretty unbelievable that you guys still don't get how this works. Yes, they absolutely use Dreger and others to artificially set values and negotiate against competing teams.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

 

[stokes84]

I agree that it's doubtful that team officials are reading Dreger's reports and effectively withdrawing their team from consideration. Most front offices have guys who'd recognize a number of variables at play. Was the roster player an impact player or a salary dump to make the deal work and to keep players in Rochester? Was the prospect an A-level prospect, or a B- or C-level player? Was the fourth piece simply a conditional pick based on re-signing, which a rental team may have no interest in doing.

Teams aren't saying "forget it, I'm out" without talking to Jason Botterill first and assessing what the cost would be for THEIR team.

They are sending out a bat signal to other teams to drop their values. At the end of the day, they aren't just dealing with Jason Botterill, they are competing against other GMs without knowing what they are really offering. Dreger sends out messages to help these guys determine how to play their cards against one another.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

It's pretty unbelievable that you guys still don't get how this works. Yes, they absolutely use Dreger and others to artificially set values and negotiate against competing teams.

I like how you've suddenly become an expert about front office operations.