Player Discussion Evan Bouchard

[Mr Kot]

#2 will look sexy on Bouch.

 

[Fourier]

History of who wore number 2:

NHL:

Lee Fogolin 1980-1987

Jim Ennis 1988

Chris Joseph 1988-1994

Bob Beers 1994

Boris Mironov 1995-1999

Brett Hauer 2000

Igor Ulanov 2000

Eric Brewer 2001-2004

Matt Greene 2006-2008

Aaron Johnson 2010

Jim Vandermeer 2011

Jeff Petry 2013-2015

Andrej Sekera 2016-2019

Duncan Keith 2021-2022

Sorry, it's hard to find the site that had the jersey numbers from the WHA days.

Ah Bob Beers and Jim Ennis. Those were the days!

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

Any reason why Yamo is still wearing #56? Wore #17 back in junior, obviously it's taken here, but would have figured he would have switched it by now...

...cause he's 5'-6"?

 

[De Montreal]

Dobson signed 3 year at 4M. Seems like a good comparable for Evan's next contract. What do you expect him to sign for, and for how long?

 

[McJadeddog]

Dobson is a very good comparable. If they don’t go long with his deal, something around Dobson deal is highly likely

 

[Mr Positive]

Try not to bridge Bouchard. The more years the better. He's the real deal. In particular, 3 years would be bad because then we have to sign him and McDavid in the same summer. (or rather their deals activate at the same time).

 

[Duke74]

Dobson signed 3 year at 4M. Seems like a good comparable for Evan's next contract. What do you expect him to sign for, and for how long?

Ideally 6x6. Go long. Bridging would be a massive mistake as seen with Nurse.

 

[duul]

I think Bouchard's agent mentions Dobson played all PP minutes on the Island, and Bouchard would've hit 60-65 points if not more with full PP time this year. Probably more.

We went to him in the playoffs for some reason, which was nice, and saw him ripping bombs.

 

[Broberg Speed]

I think Bouchard's agent mentions Dobson played all PP minutes on the Island, and Bouchard would've hit 60-65 points if not more with full PP time this year. Probably more.

We went to him in the playoffs for some reason, which was nice, and saw him ripping bombs.

I'm not sold Bouchard can hold the blue line on the power play. He's had trouble with this going back to the London Knights. Other teams penalty killing units will put him to the test looking for short handed opportunities next season. Let's see how Bouchard handles the pressure.

I can see the attraction of hoping he can do it but why speculate the player will score 65 points or more per season on a regular basis? And by speculate I mean why pay him like a 65 point player before he actually shows he can produce at that rate, while playing sold two-way hockey, which includes cleaning up his game in the defensive zone by a sufficient measure.

If anything the lack of views of Bouchard on the first unit power play unit is the number 1 reason to keep Barrie around for the season. Ease Bouchard into that role and everytime he falters, and I think he will to a degree, you have a player in Barrie, who has proven over time, he can run an elite powerplay. Barrie still has much to teach Bouchard about the power play.

If Bouchard doesn't sign an early contract during the regular season what is the inclination of forcing him onto that number 1 power play, particularly if he's not necessarily ready for it and we have Barrie in the lineup already paid to do the job?

Bouchard needs to sign a contract, hopefully a team friendly one with term, soon as the season starts or he can wait to get his power play time. Remember, the last thing we need is another artificially inflated contract that could possibly hinder the resigning of McDavid and Draisaitl. Besides winning Stanley Cup championships that should be priority one. If signing Bouchard helps you towards both of those goals then great, but it would be wise to show some caution and sound judgment when handing out the next contract to Bouchard.

I think this should be brought up more, 2021-22 was an inflated year for scoring around the league and it should be kept in mind when signing players. Just look at the contracts recently handed out in Calgary. Huberdeau and Kadri getting enormous deals with equivalent money corresponding to an elite franchise forward and a mid-tier first-line center... both coming off career years in 2021-22. Contracts that take them into their late 30s. Bouchard only looks like his next contract will take him into his late 30s.

Huberdeau was trending well if you prorate seasons but before his 115 point campaign in 2021-22 he only had one other elite scoring season with 92 points. Kadri scored 87 points in 2021-22 but only one other time did he top 60 points. Take Bouchard's 43 points, without significant power play time, with a grain of salt. The player has a lot of room to grow.

 

[VainGretzky]

I'm not sold Bouchard can hold the blue line on the power play. He's had trouble with this going back to the London Knights. Other teams penalty killing units will put him to the test looking for short handed opportunities next season. Let's see how Bouchard handles the pressure.

I can see the attraction of hoping he can do it but why speculate the player will score 65 points or more per season on a regular basis? And by speculate I mean why pay him like a 65 point player before he actually shows he can produce at that rate, while playing sold two-way hockey, which includes cleaning up his game in the defensive zone by a sufficient measure.

If anything the lack of views of Bouchard on the first unit power play unit is the number 1 reason to keep Barrie around for the season. Ease Bouchard into that role and everytime he falters, and I think he will to a degree, you have a player in Barrie, who has proven over time, he can run an elite powerplay. Barrie still has much to teach Bouchard about the power play.

If Bouchard doesn't sign an early contract during the regular season what is the inclination of forcing him onto that number 1 power play, particularly if he's not necessarily ready for it and we have Barrie in the lineup already paid to do the job?

Bouchard needs to sign a contract, hopefully a team friendly one with term, soon as the season starts or he can wait to get his power play time. Remember, the last thing we need is another artificially inflated contract that could possibly hinder the resigning of McDavid and Draisaitl. Besides winning Stanley Cup championships that should be priority one. If signing Bouchard helps you towards both of those goals then great, but it would be wise to show some caution and sound judgment when handing out the next contract to Bouchard.

I think this should be brought up more, 2021-22 was an inflated year for scoring around the league and it should be kept in mind when signing players. Just look at the contracts recently handed out in Calgary. Huberdeau and Kadri getting enormous deals with equivalent money corresponding to an elite franchise forward and a mid-tier first-line center... both coming off career years in 2021-22. Contracts that take them into their late 30s. Bouchard only looks like his next contract will take him into his late 30s.

Huberdeau was trending well if you prorate seasons but before his 115 point campaign in 2021-22 he only had one other elite scoring season with 92 points. Kadri scored 87 points in 2021-22 but only one other time did he top 60 points. Take Bouchard's 43 points, without significant power play time, with a grain of salt. The player has a lot of room to grow.

I won't read till 90% redacted

 

[VainGretzky]

75

I thought old man Bouchard would keep changing to his age he wore it last year

 

[Broberg Speed]

Dobson signed 3 year at 4M. Seems like a good comparable for Evan's next contract. What do you expect him to sign for, and for how long?

Alexander Romanov signed a three year deal for 2.5M and he's still a RFA when that deal is up. Outstanding contract. Romanov is the same age as Bouchard and Dobson. Dobson burned an entry level year compared to Bouchard, same draft class, but is still a RFA when his deal is up. I believe a 4 year extension would take Bouchard up to UFA status. That contract wouldn't kick in until the 2023-24 season.

You won't get a seven or 8 year deal done affordably for Bouchard. The league doesn't operate that way. Look to buy 1 or two of Bouchard's potential UFA years. 5 years at 5M or six years at 5.5M seems about right. Six at 6M seems steep.

 

[bobbythebrain]

I'm not sold Bouchard can hold the blue line on the power play. He's had trouble with this going back to the London Knights. Other teams penalty killing units will put him to the test looking for short handed opportunities next season. Let's see how Bouchard handles the pressure.

I can see the attraction of hoping he can do it but why speculate the player will score 65 points or more per season on a regular basis? And by speculate I mean why pay him like a 65 point player before he actually shows he can produce at that rate, while playing sold two-way hockey, which includes cleaning up his game in the defensive zone by a sufficient measure.

If anything the lack of views of Bouchard on the first unit power play unit is the number 1 reason to keep Barrie around for the season. Ease Bouchard into that role and everytime he falters, and I think he will to a degree, you have a player in Barrie, who has proven over time, he can run an elite powerplay. Barrie still has much to teach Bouchard about the power play.

If Bouchard doesn't sign an early contract during the regular season what is the inclination of forcing him onto that number 1 power play, particularly if he's not necessarily ready for it and we have Barrie in the lineup already paid to do the job?

Bouchard needs to sign a contract, hopefully a team friendly one with term, soon as the season starts or he can wait to get his power play time. Remember, the last thing we need is another artificially inflated contract that could possibly hinder the resigning of McDavid and Draisaitl. Besides winning Stanley Cup championships that should be priority one. If signing Bouchard helps you towards both of those goals then great, but it would be wise to show some caution and sound judgment when handing out the next contract to Bouchard.

I think this should be brought up more, 2021-22 was an inflated year for scoring around the league and it should be kept in mind when signing players. Just look at the contracts recently handed out in Calgary. Huberdeau and Kadri getting enormous deals with equivalent money corresponding to an elite franchise forward and a mid-tier first-line center... both coming off career years in 2021-22. Contracts that take them into their late 30s. Bouchard only looks like his next contract will take him into his late 30s.

Huberdeau was trending well if you prorate seasons but before his 115 point campaign in 2021-22 he only had one other elite scoring season with 92 points. Kadri scored 87 points in 2021-22 but only one other time did he top 60 points. Take Bouchard's 43 points, without significant power play time, with a grain of salt. The player has a lot of room to grow.

Easily one of the worst posts you will see on here.

A. Bouch did not have trouble on the PP, infact he was highly praised for having a high rate of getting shots thru in tight situations.
B. Not paying a high end prospect on early potential is just dumb. It's how you get inflated Nurse contract vs the Klingberg/Barkov specials

Only thing that should be taken with a mountain of salt is this essay you wrote

 

[bucks_oil]

Alexander Romanov signed a three year deal for 2.5M and he's still a RFA when that deal is up. Outstanding contract. Romanov is the same age as Bouchard and Dobson. Dobson burned an entry level year compared to Bouchard, same draft class, but is still a RFA when his deal is up. I believe a 4 year extension would take Bouchard up to UFA status. That contract wouldn't kick in until the 2023-24 season.

You won't get a seven or 8 year deal done affordably for Bouchard. The league doesn't operate that way. Look to buy 1 or two of Bouchard's potential UFA years. 5 years at 5M or six years at 5.5M seems about right. Six at 6M seems steep.

There are only two trajectories for Bouchard IMO:
1) Elite scoring D, requiring some shelter
2) Elite all situations #1D, requiring a brinks truck

During the McDrai years we can have him on bridge the entire time, allowing us to build a contender. You take that option every time and deal with the consequences later IMO.

I don't see any benefit in buying UFA years. It just increases our cap hit during the McDrai window. I'd bridge him for the four years up to his UFA summer. You can sign him a year early, once you know: A) what's happened with McDrai and B) whether he is firmly in category 1 or 2 above.

You can also trade him for a tonne at UFA-1 in the offseason if McDavid and Drai have left and you want to embrace a full rebuild.

 

[bucks_oil]

Easily one of the worst posts you will see on here.

A. Bouch did not have trouble on the PP, infact he was highly praised for having a high rate of getting shots thru in tight situations.
B. Not paying a high end prospect on early potential is just dumb. It's how you get inflated Nurse contract vs the Klingberg/Barkov specials

Only thing that should be taken with a mountain of salt is this essay you wrote

I don't know about B in this case.

I don't often agree with Broberg Speed, but is Bouchard a Pietrangelo or a... Barrie. I don't know yet. And one is worth $9.5M in four years, the other is worth $5-6M.

In both cases they contract during the next 4 years is where we have leverage. Both future Pietrangelo and future Barrie can make the same amount during that time ($4-5M) and not be overpaid no matter the trajectory. Moreover we save $2-3M in cap space during a time when we need it for the McDrai window.

I have very high hopes for Bouchard. I think he's going to play like a $7M guy during his bridge years... that's exactly why I'm going to bridge him. It makes me giddy to think of the value of that contract in the years it matters most (between now and McDrai being resigned or leaving).

 

[bucks_oil]

Just to add...

Because Bouchard could be an "all situations guy", which are among the most valuable assets in the league... or he could be a "one dimensional pp guy", one of the most undervalued assets in the league, you gotta wait for the turn of the final card.

If you have to pay him $10M and he's worth it, who cares?!

If he's dispensable, like one dimensional D-men often are... thank God we don't have him tied up at >$6M, preventing us from signing a true #1D.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Just to add...

Because Bouchard could be an "all situations guy", which are among the most valuable assets in the league... or he could be a "one dimensional pp guy", one of the most undervalued assets in the league, you gotta wait for the turn of the final card.

If you have to pay him $10M and he's worth it, who cares?!

If he's dispensable, like one dimensional D-men often are... thank God we don't have him tied up at >$6M, preventing us from signing a true #1D.

Did you watch last year? Not only was he not a "one dimensional PP" guy, he was already an all situations dman who pk'ed. Yes, his defense wasn't Hedman and was very sketchy at times, but he's young. What he did do however as make unbelievable transitions

So where exactly is this one dimensional theory manifest from? You think he is going to regress into that?
Highly unlikely

 

[Mr Positive]

Alexander Romanov signed a three year deal for 2.5M and he's still a RFA when that deal is up. Outstanding contract. Romanov is the same age as Bouchard and Dobson. Dobson burned an entry level year compared to Bouchard, same draft class, but is still a RFA when his deal is up. I believe a 4 year extension would take Bouchard up to UFA status. That contract wouldn't kick in until the 2023-24 season.

You won't get a seven or 8 year deal done affordably for Bouchard. The league doesn't operate that way. Look to buy 1 or two of Bouchard's potential UFA years. 5 years at 5M or six years at 5.5M seems about right. Six at 6M seems steep.

I definitely agree with you on the cost for extending Bouchard 5 years and beyond. Part of that is cap growth. 5.5 is probably similar in cap percentage to Klef's 4.1. Plus, when Klef signed that it was still after a season where he still spent a chunk of it in the AHL. Bouchard is already more proven, and if he waits until next offseason to sign he'll have another season. Also it is just true that higher drafted players expect more money. Klefbom was a much later pick.

I wouldn't worry too much at 6 million for going really long, but just looking at our cap, it might not be doable. So scaling it down to the 5s makes sense for less term. 6 aav is high for Bouchard today, but the point would be that it would be very low later on, and to me the really critical times are when McDavid and Draisaitl re-sign, and the couple years after that. That's when we want a good deal on Bouchard, not next year. (I'm guessing this is the logic behind the Nurse deal as well. By the time McDavid re-signs, 9.25 will be the new 8)

 

[bucks_oil]

Did you watch last year? Not only was he not a "one dimensional PP" guy, he was already an all situations dman who pk'ed. Yes, his defense wasn't Hedman and was very sketchy at times, but he's young. What he did do however as make unbelievable transitions

So where exactly is this one dimensional theory manifest from? You think he is going to regress into that?
Highly unlikely

Hey...

Here's a suggestion. Why not drop the internet-agro and read. Especially this part:

I have very high hopes for Bouchard. I think he's going to play like a $7M guy during his bridge years... that's exactly why I'm going to bridge him. It makes me giddy to think of the value of that contract in the years it matters most (between now and McDrai being resigned or leaving).

Just because you may expect Bouchard to be an all-situations guy (and I do), doesn't mean you need to commit long term to him now. Why would you do that? A player like that will be stellar well into his thirties, so you can sign your eight years covering 100% UFA and still be happy.

Your options are:
A: Bridge at 4 x $4.5, then 8 x $10M which expires when he's 35... vs
B: Say 8 x $7.0M (essentially buying 4 UFA years for $9.5M each), then an awkward negotiation when Bouchard is 31 years old... how long do you sign him for then?

You are advocating for B, but the only reason to do it is so that you take some short term cap pain now and save on cap pain later (in his prime years).

But his prime years are post McDrai window and his bridge years are NOW, when we MUST WIN.

You 100% opt to save the cap now so that you can ensure success (and cap space) in the window. This isn't exactly controversial. You also lose very little in the long run, except 2.5M in cap space in years when it will certainly matter less.

Moreover, bridging now + 8 years later aligns better to his prime through to age 35. The alternative has him coming up for contract at the tail end of his prime, when your home-team advantage of an 8-year contract actually becomes a major hazard.... even a shorter deal then carries more risk.

Even if you are certain in Bouchard's potential there is zero downside to a bridge deal. You'll be happy to pay him when the time comes (ie one year before his 4 year bridge expires).

PS: You are getting triggered by the downside scenario, where he ends up a one-dimensional guy. You don't believe it possible. I also don't believe it is likely, but then at Bouchard's age, nobody was saying anything negative about Barrie either. He was already an elite outscorer. But my point... is that the value gap is huge, therefore you need to have that scenario in your mind as you weigh your options, even if you think it is unlikely. That's just good management.

 

[LTIR]

Can't say there is zero downside to a bridge deal when Nurse is a perfect example of it.

Could have locked up Nurse at around 6.5M per through his prime years had we not bridged him. Now in 6/7yrs we may be looking to offload a 9.25M over the hill player in his mid 30s

 

[Mr Positive]

Can't say there is zero downside to a bridge deal when Nurse is a perfect example of it.

Could have locked up Nurse at around 6.5M per through his prime years had we not bridged him. Now in 6/7yrs we may be looking to offload a 9.25M over the hill player in his mid 30s

yes, this

The only reason to bridge Bouchard would be if we can't manage the cap in the short term. I don't think we can take the attitude of playing it safe with a player like him, and then just pay him when he earns it. We are a McDavid and Draisaitl team. We have a lot of years left on some older forwards. Nurse is here.

If we bridge Bouchard now, guess what: he won't be an Oiler after that because we won't be able to afford him.

 

[bobbythebrain]

The comparisons to Barrie are just dumb.
He is already far more on a Carlson/Burns trajectory.

Bridging Carslon/Burns when you had a chance to lock them up thru their prime years is "bad management "

 

[LTIR]

4yrs should be the minimum.. both sides might be happy with a 5yr deal. Bouchard would become a UFA being still in his prime setting himself up for another 7 year deal at peak value.
Something like 5x5 now +/- 1 yr or 1M
And then a Nurse like contract afterwards

 

[Broberg Speed]

Easily one of the worst posts you will see on here.

A. Bouch did not have trouble on the PP, infact he was highly praised for having a high rate of getting shots thru in tight situations.
B. Not paying a high end prospect on early potential is just dumb. It's how you get inflated Nurse contract vs the Klingberg/Barkov specials

Only thing that should be taken with a mountain of salt is this essay you wrote

Are you drunk or just trolling?

Getting shots through and holding the blue line are two completely different things... and yes, Bouchard does have difficulty holding the puck in the offensive zone.

You witness this primarily when a defenseman is playing the point during a power play, pinches at inopportune times, doesn't realize he should back off and assume defensive positioning or simply lets the puck get by him.

Also when he fails to hold the zone he has historically shown little hustle on the backcheck. These are not just potential problems, these are plays that he must clean up in his game.

The aforementioned issues, his footspeed and the lack of urgency shown in the defensive zone are all aspects of Bouchard's game that are a work in progress. These weaknesses really do go back to his time with the London Knights. Different league, same mistakes.

I outlined two scenarios, one where we buy one UFA year, the other where we buy two, by signing Bouchard to either a 5 or a six year contract, so I don't understand why you think I'm contemplating management backing into a Nurse like contract scenario. It's the exact opposite.

Bouchard has one year remaining on his current contract so the outlined deals would take him through and include either the 2027-28 season or the 2028-29 season respectively.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Are you drunk or just trolling?

Getting shots through and holding the blue line are two completely different things... and yes, Bouchard does have difficulty holding the puck in the offensive zone.

You witness this primarily when a defenseman is playing the point during a power play, pinches at inopportune times, doesn't realize he should back off and assume defensive positioning or simply lets the puck get by him.

Also when he fails to hold the zone he has historically shown little hustle on the backcheck. These are not just potential problems, these are plays that he must clean up in his game.

The aforementioned issues, his footspeed and the lack of urgency shown in the defensive zone are all aspects of Bouchard's game that are a work in progress. These weaknesses really do go back to his time with the London Knights. Different league, same mistakes.

I outlined two scenarios, one where we buy one UFA year, the other where we buy two, by signing Bouchard to either a 5 or a six year contract, so I don't understand why you think I'm contemplating management backing into a Nurse like contract scenario. It's the exact opposite.

Bouchard has one year remaining on his current contract so the outlined deals would take him through and include either the 2027-28 season or the 2028-29 season respectively.

Pure nonsense. As per usual, you take a couple instances and turn them into a regular occurences.

Bouchard definitely got lit up on a few pinches, and one big one in the playoffs.

But compared to the 100s of fantastic and timely pinches he made all year, it was peanuts. Especially the dozens that lead to goals which went uncredited

So no I'm not trolling. I just don't go off the deep end with extremely bad takes like you. This new Bouchard tangent you're on is right on level with your Hyman goal sucks all the time.