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Player Discussion Evan Bouchard

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guymez said:
Its an important distinguishing factor in determining the value of a dman IMO especially when we are talking about elevated minutes.
Its all about predictability and having done a little coaching myself there is nothing more valuable than a player who is consistent and reliable.
Nurse is an unpredictable player who is making $9.25M.
To be able to say that about a 28 year old Dman who is in his prime is not a compliment.
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You might be going against your own argument here assuming you are on the Bouchard is a god side of the fence.

Bouchard is about to become a 5M+ unpredictable player who on some night would look like Coffey and on many MAB. Bouchard isnt ready to carry the bottom pairing yet. A big contract could get him chased out of town.
 
guymez said:
Not really similar at all.
Barries game didnt change much at all after his D partner changed so its not like Nurse was the reason for that.
Also...Barrie was a finished product (a vet player) when he was paired with Nurse.
Nurse didnt have to babysit.

Ekholm was being paired with rookie dmen in Nashville because his game is so solid and reliable .

Nurses game is not solid and reliable...its all over the map. Could be good one game...not so good the next. The opposite of Ekholm when it comes to reliability.
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How is it not similar? Barrie may be a vet, but he absolutely needed/needs to be babysat. Paired with Nurse, he managed to go from being near unplayable as a top 4 option, to one that could keep his head above water on the top pairing (one that didn't have much insulation behind it).

Also for the point Barrie’s game didn't change being away from Nurse? Kulak-Barrie struggled to go against anything but the soft parade. They were the 3rd pairing down the stretch last year, and an over-matched 2nd pairing for the first 3 quarters of this season. His even strength offence also significantly dried up away from Nurse.


I do agree with your last point though, and this is where Woody/Manson have him miscast. Nurse as the sole offensive driver on a pairing is just a recipe for inconsistency, as Nurse isn't a natural offensive defenceman. He's just really good at head-manning (specifically skating) the puck up ice.

But that’s why Nurse worked so well with Barrie: Defensively he was good enough to cover for that trainwreck; and teams couldn't tee off forechecking him, as they had to respect Barrie's breakout (and vice-versa). Plus no one else got Barrie (and McDrai, who often teamed up with them) up the ice and to the attacking zone quite like Nurse.

With Ceci, other teams don’t respect their breakouts as they know it’s near always going through Nurse. Plus at the offensive blueline, neither Nurse or Ceci inspire much fear in defenders.

/Tangent over.
 
LTIR said:
You might be going against your own argument here assuming you are on the Bouchard is a god side of the fence.

Bouchard is about to become a 5M+ unpredictable player who on some night would look like Coffey and on many MAB. Bouchard isnt ready to carry the bottom pairing yet. A big contract could get him chased out of town.
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Bouchard is 23 years old and hasnt even played 200 NHL games yet and he is already better than Nurse offensively (by quite a lot) and he is improving defensively.
I dont happen to think that Bouchard is a god however I do think that his top end is likely higher than Nurse.
Now what is he worth on his next contract?
The team may be forced to bridge him given that they wont have a lot of cap space to do otherwise.
 
Dazed and Confused said:
How is it not similar? Barrie may be a vet, but he absolutely needed/needs to be babysat. Paired with Nurse, he managed to go from being near unplayable as a top 4 option, to one that could keep his head above water on the top pairing (one that didn't have much insulation behind it).

Also for the point Barrie’s game didn't change being away from Nurse? Kulak-Barrie struggled to go against anything but the soft parade. They were the 3rd pairing down the stretch last year, and an over-matched 2nd pairing for the first 3 quarters of this season. His even strength offence also significantly dried up away from Nurse.


I do agree with your last point though, and this is where Woody/Manson have him miscast. Nurse as the sole offensive driver on a pairing is just a recipe for inconsistency, as Nurse isn't a natural offensive defenceman. He's just really good at head-manning (specifically skating) the puck up ice.

But that’s why Nurse worked so well with Barrie: Defensively he was good enough to cover for that trainwreck; and teams couldn't tee off forechecking him, as they had to respect Barrie's breakout (and vice-versa). Plus no one else got Barrie (and McDrai, who often teamed up with them) up the ice and to the attacking zone quite like Nurse.

With Ceci, other teams don’t respect their breakouts as they know it’s near always going through Nurse. Plus at the offensive blueline, neither Nurse or Ceci inspire much fear in defenders.

/Tangent over.
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Nurse didnt make Barrie a better player.
As a matter of fact the Barrie and Nurse pairing was very ineffective especially against the better competition.
Thats why they were split up. It handicapped the team.
 
I think we can fix a few roster spots and alleviate cap dilemma by trading Bouchard and adding at least one troublesome contract along with other assets. And we have a lot of roster and cap problems. Receive exceptional quality assets back to fix the team and win the Cup.

Bouchard's current value is extremely high. Due to his red hot playoff performance. Top this off with scoring RD being prized trading chips. You have to give up quality to receive quality.

Ideally you'd want to make a bold move on Bouchard before he signs this next contract. Gives the receiving club the flexibility to make the deal they want. Obtain the most value from a club looking to make a big splash desiring to sign Bouchard to a max-term 8 year deal.

This would be a major organizational shakeup. Encompass more large-scale moves on top of this one to round out the club into a Cup contender.

This overhaul would be the biggest since 2006.
 
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guymez said:
Nurse didnt make Barrie a better player.
As a matter of fact the Barrie and Nurse pairing was very ineffective especially against the better competition.
Thats why they were split up. It handicapped the team.
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I think Barrie was actually having a better year than Nurse at the time he was traded.

Broberg Speed said:
I think we can fix a few roster spots and alleviate cap dilemma by trading Bouchard and adding at least one troublesome contract along with other assets. And we have a lot of roster and cap problems. Receive exceptional quality assets back to fix the team and win the Cup.

Bouchard's current value is extremely high. Due to his red hot playoff performance. Top this off with scoring RD being prized trading chips. You have to give up quality to receive quality.

Ideally you'd want to make a bold move on Bouchard before he signs this next contract. Gives the receiving club the flexibility to make the deal they want. Obtain the most value from a club looking to make a big splash desiring to sign Bouchard to a max-term 8 year deal.

This would be a major organizational shakeup. Encompass more large-scale moves on top of this one to round out the club into a Cup contender.

This overhaul would be the biggest since 2006.
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This is insane. We finally have a PP ace and quarterback and you want to move him. In most cases, the team moving the best player usually loses the trade. He's 23 years old, has barely played 2 full seasons and has a ton of potential to really get good.
 
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Stoneman89 said:
I think Barrie was actually having a better year than Nurse at the time he was traded.


This is insane. We finally have a PP ace and quarterback and you want to move him. In most cases, the team moving the best player usually loses the trade. He's 23 years old, has barely played 2 full seasons and has a ton of potential to really get good.
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A pp quarterback has significant value but the team with the best pp quarterback just got erased from the playoffs by a team with considerably more depth.

And I wasn't permitted to call Barrie a pp quarterback but now it's fair game to call Bouchard one. It's difficult, I don't know if you even realize what I'm implying but I can't talk about it.

Bouchard isn't going to push us over the top anymore than a prime aged "fast skating Barrie". Who was an excellent player but not a true difference maker for Colorado.
 
Broberg Speed said:
A pp quarterback has significant value but the team with the best pp quarterback just got erased from the playoffs by a team with considerably more depth.

And I wasn't permitted to call Barrie a pp quarterback but now it's fair game to call Bouchard one. It's difficult, I don't know if you even realize what I'm implying but I can't talk about it.

Bouchard isn't going to push us over the top anymore than a prime aged "fast skating Barrie". Who was an excellent player but not a true difference maker for Colorado.
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What is going to push us over the top is a goaltender that can make the saves when we need them. Bouchard is and will be part of the solution, not a trade chip.
 
Stoneman89 said:
What is going to push us over the top is a goaltender that can make the saves when we need them. Bouchard is and will be part of the solution, not a trade chip.
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We are more than just a good goaltender away. Trading Bouchard may not be the only path to winning a championship but there has to be a solution. Or we go down as the team that couldn't win the cup with McDavid and Draisaitl. And that will be talked about for a long time.
 
Stoneman89 said:
What is going to push us over the top is a goaltender that can make the saves when we need them. Bouchard is and will be part of the solution, not a trade chip.
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Most recently goalie performance fluctuated markedly from season to season with the exception of the Russians and Helle...

Should the Oilers hold onto Campbell I think it's quite possible that he could bounce back...
 
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I think Bouchard settles on a bridge contract between $4-5MM /3 years. He should know that if we never dealt Barrie, he never would have gotten the keys to play PP1 the rest of the year where he makes his money.

I like Bouchard alot, but he isn't this dynamic minute crunching defenseman.
 
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Broberg Speed said:
We are more than just a good goaltender away. Trading Bouchard may not be the only path to winning a championship but there has to be a solution. Or we go down as the team that couldn't win the cup with McDavid and Draisaitl. And that will be talked about for a long time.
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Nah trade Bustberg instead.
 
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Little Fury said:
Bouchard isn't a PP specialist, good lord watch a game.
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Bouchard was brutal in the regular season until Ekholm arrived. Lots of let downs in the playoffs too.

His play elevated in game 4 against L.A. after he was cross-checked by Kempe in the OT. He had to leave the ice and couldn't get back out there fast enough. The game where Hyman scored in overtime. Bouchard picked up the assist. Bouchard's feet were moving and he was engaged and played better hockey for several games.

Bouchard's quick feet stopped in games 5 and six against Vegas and he became relatively ineffective again.

Yeah, I watch the games. Put more effort into your posts.
 
Little Fury said:
Bouchard isn't a PP specialist, good lord watch a game.
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He was absolutely dynamite on the PP, but his even strength offense did fade this season. These playoffs saw him put up 2 ES points, the same as Vinny, despite getting a ton of premium minutes.
Good news is he's only 23 and just last year he was far more productive at evens, so we know he can be effective there.

Still, if he makes a large contract demand (say 6+) and doesn't budge on it, I wouldn't be opposed to trading him for a massive haul and signing someone like Klingberg at a cheaper price. (After this year, what are the odds he would go for a Barrie-like contract?)


There isn't a doubt in my mind Bouchard is going to have a long career as one of the league's premier OFD, but couple mil in extra cap space and a ton of blue chip assets to wheel and deal might help this team more over the next 3 years. Plus during that window, I don't think there's a massive divide between what Bouchard and someone like Klingberg would bring.
 
Dazed and Confused said:
He was absolutely dynamite on the PP, but his even strength offense did fade this season. These playoffs saw him put up 2 ES points, the same as Vinny, despite getting a ton of premium minutes.
Good news is he's only 23 and just last year he was far more productive at evens, so we know he can be effective there.
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That's also one fewer point than Darnell Nurse. I also don't think points tell the whole story here.

Still, if he makes a large contract demand (say 6+) and doesn't budge on it, I wouldn't be opposed to trading him for a massive haul and signing someone like Klingberg at a cheaper price. (After this year, what are the odds he would go for a Barrie-like contract?)

There isn't a doubt in my mind Bouchard is going to have a long career as one of the league's premier OFD, but couple mil in extra cap space and a ton of blue chip assets to wheel and deal might help this team more over the next 3 years. Plus during that window, I don't think there's a massive divide between what Bouchard and someone like Klingberg would bring.
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$6M with term or a $6M bridge? because the former would be a dream scenario.

Anyway I don't think Klingberg would come for less than he $6M you're balking at paying Bouch and anyone cheaper is likely to have significant warts. Better off keeping the guy on the verge of entering his peak.
 
Ok, I will say it. Bouchard has some skills. His passing is elite. His shot is elite.

I will also say that he can never become a number one D without more heart/compete/intensity (Pick your favourite word) and a better defensive thought process. He drives me nuts. Giveaways, poor defending and decision making.

Thank goodness he will give us 50-60 points.
 
Slats432 said:
Ok, I will say it. Bouchard has some skills. His passing is elite. His shot is elite.

I will also say that he can never become a number one D without more heart/compete/intensity (Pick your favourite word) and a better defensive thought process. He drives me nuts. Giveaways, poor defending and decision making.

Thank goodness he will give us 50-60 points.
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If he stays healthy and on the first PP unit all year, he will blow that out of the water.
 
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