Proposal: Erik Karlsson To Leafs for Nylander?

[jbeck5]

I understand there are lots of ways to play while on the ice. I'm not asking him to throw open ice hip checks or be a monster in clearing the crease. But you'll never convince me that he's actively engaged in neutralizing the opposition, as opposed to just waiting for his next chance to play offense.

There are literally videos of him watching opposing forwards skate past him, as though it would be too big an inconvenience for him to intervene.

But there are also plenty of videos of star players coming down on him and he takes the puck off their stick with ease play after play.

I haven't looked recently but he used to always be among the leaders in takeaways for defenseman. At least back in his Ottawa days. Plenty of videos of star ppg forwards coming down on him and he just used his superior skating to get in between the forward and the puck and just turn up ice with the puck for an odd man rush.

 

[Right Wing]

Why? Because he's a forward that just likes to skate a little farther to reach the net?

I will never understand the infatuation with this guy. Be who you are and stop pretending to be a defenseman. Treat him like a 5th forward and evaluate him as such, but nobody should ever have paid him anywhere near $11.5M AAV because he's some sort of unicorn defenseman.

He. Never. Plays. Defense.

Call him a 100 point forward who never bothers to pay attention when the other team has the puck, and pay him the (still hefty) amount that such a designation deserves. But things like him getting that contract, let alone winning Norris trophies, is just nonsense.

This in a nutshell. Was going to say they both play the same amount of defense so good one for one trade.

 

[jkutswings]

But there are also plenty of videos of star players coming down on him and he takes the puck off their stick with ease play after play.

I haven't looked recently but he used to always be among the leaders in takeaways for defenseman. At least back in his Ottawa days. Plenty of videos of star ppg forwards coming down on him and he just used his superior skating to get in between the forward and the puck and just turn up ice with the puck for an odd man rush.

EK is a player that is phenomenal at the aspects of the game that play to his strengths. I'm not saying he's a scrub. But many fans of his like to gloss over just how thin he is in certain areas of the game traditionally associated with defense. I'm not directing this at you specifically, because your take above is incredibly reasonable compared to most of the one-sided hype he gets.

Any time somebody questions how to rate him due to a lack of being well rounded, they get shouted down. And if somebody thinks that scoring 100 points matters so much that anything else is inconsequential, that's their opinion, but not everybody has to share it.

Here's a Bleacher Report article from way back in 2012, arguing why he shouldn't win the Norris:

Why Erik Karlsson Shouldn't Win the Norris Trophy

As is the case in just about any sport, it's the hockey players who score goals and create offense that stand out...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

It's highly complimentary about his offense, and optimistic that he will round out his defensive play. And here's one from The Hockey Writers from this spring, basically saying the same thing, even after he scored an incredible 100 points:

Erik Karlsson's Norris Trophy Case Not as Strong as You Think - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Erik Karlsson's offensive season makes him a deserving Norris candidate, but a closer look at his defense makes the picture far less certain.

thehockeywriters.com

So it's not just random hater fans that are lashing out in jealousy or ignorance. Maybe he really has improved on some of those areas, such as the takeaways you mentioned. But there are definitely still defensive areas he's well below league average at, and it's pretty obvious that GMs around the league aren't pushing each other out of the way to trade for him, which is both due to the contract and the mixed bag of incredible ups and noticeable downs you get with him.

On the right team he could be a wonderful asset. But that's different than saying that nobody is allowed to question the claim of historical greatness that some are spouting.

 

[MCR74]

Why would the Leafs make this trade?

 

[TheBeard]

With retention? If not, you have got to be joking.

Are there any other 40g, ppg wingers in the league that get as much disrespect as Nylander?

I hope the Sharks rebuild take another decade after some of the comments in this thread, just brutal.

Of course with retention. I’m not talking about the contract. I’m talking about the player. If you were able to take either of these players at the same price for the next three years, which would you?

 

[jkutswings]

Of course with retention. I’m not talking about the contract. I’m talking about the player. If you were able to take either of these players at the same price for the next three years, which would you?

Depends on the team. If I have a great group of two way forwards and need somebody to get them the puck while contributing on offense, I'd prefer Karlsson. If my defense is already set but I need scoring up front, I'd take Nylander.

 

[TheBeard]

Depends on the team. If I have a great group of two way forwards and need somebody to get them the puck while contributing on offense, I'd prefer Karlsson. If my defense is already set but I need scoring up front, I'd take Nylander.

Fair answer. My valuation is simply there are maybe 3 or 4 better play drivers than EK and while there are defensive lapses, being able to line up with him on the backend and three forwards still is a luxury most teams would kill for. Nylander is a good complimentary player in that no one really knows what he’s capable of without the players he’s surrounded by.

 

[TageGod]

Teams will pay a fortune for EK at 50% retain. Maybe use two teams each retaining for the trade.

 

[HockeyShack]

Why would the Leafs make this trade?

Because they need D to win it all?

Fair answer. My valuation is simply there are maybe 3 or 4 better play drivers than EK and while there are defensive lapses, being able to line up with him on the backend and three forwards still is a luxury most teams would kill for. Nylander is a good complimentary player in that no one really knows what he’s capable of without the players he’s surrounded by.

Who do you consider a better play driver? You mentioned 3 or 4 better. I'd argue he is as good as anyone at that.

 

[TheBeard]

Because they need D to win it all?



Who do you consider a better play driver? You mentioned 3 or 4 better. I'd argue he is as good as anyone at that.

I think Mcdavid is, Nate. That may be it.