Traded Erik Brännström - D - Part III

[Senator Stanley]

Yeah, not really though.

It’s only the PD haters that give two shits about that comment, It’s only them who use it against him, as everyone else has moved on, if they were ever hung up on it to begin with.

Assholes on the internet are going to asshole. Can’t really blame the GM for assholes on the internet can we? It would be a lot simpler to just blame the assholes on the internet for being assholes wouldn’t it?

Regardless, the guy has already apologized in the media, explained the situation and admitted that it was a dumb thing to have said in his excitment. Most reasonable people were happy to let it go at that point, you know when a guy has the courage to own up for a mistake in public, and then join in on the laugh at his own expense.

In the end Branstrom’s development has zero to do with Stone, and most people understand that. Stone hasn’t really done shit since anyways and is now more of an injury concern going forward, while Branstrom is becoming a valuable member of our team. Even for those who need to hold on to petty grudges, the traded players are heading in opposite directions, and Branstrom has lots of runway left.

The comments were literally referenced eight posts up in a non-asshole, no-grudges way.

"Remember when Dorion got Brännström from Vegas for Stone, he was all pumped and excited about how great of a deal it was. Given now Brännström is essentially a non-factor in the Sens core, anyone know what happened? Why all the hype at the outset and how did he fizzle so badly relative to that hype?"

People still view Brannstrom through this lens, not because they hate Dorion but because Dorion helped create the lens.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The comments were literally referenced eight posts up in a non-asshole, no-grudges way.

"Remember when Dorion got Brännström from Vegas for Stone, he was all pumped and excited about how great of a deal it was. Given now Brännström is essentially a non-factor in the Sens core, anyone know what happened? Why all the hype at the outset and how did he fizzle so badly relative to that hype?"

People still view Brannstrom through this lens, not because they hate Dorion but because Dorion helped create the lens.

The trade was referenced by someone asking what happened.

He also didn’t specifically reference the quote, or mock it. He basically asked what happened to the highly touted prospect EB.

It was actually you that added the quote and the negative lens.

 

[Senator Stanley]

The trade was referenced by someone asking what happened.

He also didn’t specifically reference the quote, or mock it. He basically asked what happened to the highly touted prospect EB.

It was actually you that added the quote and the negative lens.

"How did he fizzle so badly relative to that hype?"

The player is being judged against the hype. Hype that was created, in large part, by Dorion.

I don't really know what we're arguing about. Dorion made a stupid comment at the time of the trade, apparently apologized for doing so (I don't remember this, but will take your word for it), and all I said was that those comments hang over the player.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dorion totally shit the bed on the Stone situation, and then to save face overhyped the return. Thanks to Dorion, Brannstrom's been saddled with this "proudest day as GM" bullshit which is still being held against him.

And there are some people that can separate Dorion's dumb ass remarks and just evaluate the trade.
The trade was shite whether Dorion felt he needed to open his mouth or not. I am happy for Brannstrom's perseverance and how he's built his game .. the return value was still bad and made so by walking him to UFA and letting it get to the final minutes of the TDL.

 

[Ice-Tray]

"How did he fizzle so badly relative to that hype?"

The player is being judged against the hype. Hype that was created, in large part, by Dorion.

I don't really know what we're arguing about. Dorion made a stupid comment at the time of the trade, apparently apologized for doing so (I don't remember this, but will take your word for it), and all I said was that those comments hang over the player.

The hype was league wide that he was one of the best defensive prospects not playing in the NHL, this wasn’t some Dorion’s created hype after the trade. Branstrom was a really highly touted prospect…. The good news is that he’s finally starting to show his skills.

Fair enough on pointless arguing lol!

Yeah he addressed it in a press conference, and has since made jokes at his own expense about having to be careful what he says and how he says things. He felt bad that it made trading Stone seem like a good day, was really excited about Branstrom etc…

 

[senseimike]

Thx for the intel guys! And indeed, no grudges here, I am just trying to understand what unfolded and if I understand correctly:
-Excluding Dorion quotes, the consensus was it wasn't a good deal for the Sens at the time
-Noone in reality expected Brannstrom to be the next Karlsson or anything like that

 

[PlayersLtd]

Thx for the intel guys! And indeed, no grudges here, I am just trying to understand what unfolded and if I understand correctly:
-Excluding Dorion quotes, the consensus was it wasn't a good deal for the Sens at the time
-Noone in reality expected Brannstrom to be the next Karlsson or anything like that

Yes and the negativity surrounding the deal was compounded by the fact that it happened at the last minute. Dorion painted himself into a corner and ran out of options at the 11th hour and George McPhee took advantage of that.

However, on the flip side the sting from the deal was also magnified by the fact that Stone was a fan favourite and one of the most likeable players in franchise history. Along with that, he officially represented the start of the dark days that were to come which, with an owner at or near peak villainhood and a GM who was routinely fumbling his words, was a very dark and long tunnel we were staring into.

The value for Brannstrom wasnt great at the time but it was made worse by factors that had nothing to do with the deal.

You won't get unanimous agreement on that because those who hate Dorion to their dying breaths will let all the other factors pile into the trade itself, whereas those who think Dorion is decent will highlight the factors and also point to the fact that the story isn't over, Brannstrom is just coming into his own and his ceiling is still a bit of an unknown.

What people generally do agree on however is that Dorion mistimed the trade market and didn't get full value by waiting too long to trade a budding superstar on TDL day.

As for the Karlsson thing no he was never viewed that way. In Ottawa especially, no D man could ever be viewed that way. However, it is worth noting that Ottawa had moved on from the EK trade by then and felt we had gotten good value for him, especially considering that he was in the midst of looking like a shell of his former self in SJ.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Yes and the negativity surrounding the deal was compounded by the fact that it happened at the last minute. Dorion painted himself into a corner and ran out of options at the 11th hour and George McPhee took advantage of that.

However, on the flip side the sting from the deal was also magnified by the fact that Stone was a fan favourite and one of the most likeable players in franchise history. Along with that, he officially represented the start of the dark days that were to come which, with an owner at or near peak villainhood and a GM who was routinely fumbling his words, was a very dark and long tunnel we were staring into.

The value for Brannstrom wasnt great at the time but it was made worse by factors that had nothing to do with the deal.

You won't get unanimous agreement on that because those who hate Dorion to their dying breaths will let all the other factors pile into the trade itself, whereas those who think Dorion is decent will highlight the factors and also point to the fact that the story isn't over, Brannstrom is just coming into his own and his ceiling is still a bit of an unknown.

What people generally do agree on however is that Dorion mistimed the trade market and didn't get full value by waiting too long to trade a budding superstar on TDL day.

As for the Karlsson thing no he was never viewed that way. In Ottawa especially, no D man could ever be viewed that way. However, it is worth noting that Ottawa had moved on from the EK trade by then and felt we had gotten good value for him, especially considering that he was in the midst of looking like a shell of his former self in SJ.

I think the perception of the deal got even worse after how Brannstrom was handled.

When we traded for him, everyone knew that he was an undersized, but talented and offensively gifted, defenseman who played on his off side. But soon after we brought him in, DJ Smith made it pretty clear that he wasn't all that comfortable playing an undersized defenseman on his off side, even if we was talented and offensively gifted.

And instead of sending him down so he could build confidence and develop, he was in and out of the lineup, playing limited minutes, and getting criticized by Gord Wilson every pregame show.

 

[PlayersLtd]

I think the perception of the deal got even worse after how Brannstrom was handled.

When we traded for him, everyone knew that he was an undersized, but talented and offensively gifted, defenseman who played on his off side. But soon after we brought him in, DJ Smith made it pretty clear that he wasn't all that comfortable playing an undersized defenseman on his off side, even if we was talented and offensively gifted.

And instead of sending him down so he could build confidence and develop, he was in and out of the lineup, playing limited minutes, and getting criticized by Gord Wilson every pregame show.

Totally true with the up and downs for sure.

But I completely disagree with the opposite side stuff. As he was figuring things out at the NHL level in those early years he would have gotten absolutely clobbered night after night on his off side. I think DJ did very well to insulate him from this.

Not saying you but I don't think people understand how much more physically vulnerable a player is on his off side, especially one like Brannstrom who is small and was not elusive or fast. On the dump and chase you get hit and you get hit hard on your weak side, there isn't an option and I wish people could better understand the X's and O's of this.

Teams would have exploited this and someone like Ryan Reaves would have eventually put him through the boards. It is fundamentally different than playing your strong side. Brannstrom might be ready for it now because his skating and elusiveness have improved. But he was getting hammered playing his strong side, on his weak side there is no question in my mind that his development would have been worse off.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

The next Karlsson thing was a joke.

We won't see a player like Karlsson for decades.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

It happens. We were hyped about Ilya Zubov too after he showed progress in the AHL. The Brannstrom hype had a few factors

- him being a Swedish offensive dman drafted at the peak of Karlsson-mania in Ottawa
- drafted by Vegas, who was the NHL's sweetheart at the time, with everyone was hyping their inaugural draft (Cody Glass, Nick Suzuki, & Brannstrom in the 1st round), turned out to be only 1 good pick out of 3
- fans happily fuel the hype since he was the main return for one of the team's best players

Also he was a great prospect.

The stone situation clearly not handled that well by Dorion. But there was more to brannstrom than “was kinda the same height as karlsson and also from the same country!”

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Hey guys,

Remember when Dorion got Brännström from Vegas for Stone, he was all pumped and excited about how great of a deal it was. Given now Brännström is essentially a non-factor in the Sens core, anyone know what happened? Why all the hype at the outset and how did he fizzle so badly relative to that hype?

Hey I got a newsflash for ya: You suck.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

The key with Brann is compensation. If he's happy with a 3x$1.5 mil deal, then I'd be very happy to keep him. If he wants $2 mil or more, then it simply gets too expensive to keep him.

Unfortunately, overspending by as little as $500k on a contract right now is out of the question. Same goes for Cat.

 

[Tuna99]

I think the perception of the deal got even worse after how Brannstrom was handled.

When we traded for him, everyone knew that he was an undersized, but talented and offensively gifted, defenseman who played on his off side. But soon after we brought him in, DJ Smith made it pretty clear that he wasn't all that comfortable playing an undersized defenseman on his off side, even if we was talented and offensively gifted.

And instead of sending him down so he could build confidence and develop, he was in and out of the lineup, playing limited minutes, and getting criticized by Gord Wilson every pregame show.

The sausage party media in this city were also super hard on Branny - they went from “he gets hit to much” to “he doesn’t have the hockey sense to survive” to “he’s to small” to “he’s not putting up points what is the point of this player” to “DJ likes big Dmen” to finally “he can play”

Credit Branny for persevering and changing his game. His next 100 games he’ll be a completely different pmayer - can PK, PP, play bottom pairing, okay D, can create offense when needed, left and right side. Very valuable

 

[Loach]

Yeah, not really though.

It’s only the PD haters that give two shits about that comment, It’s only them who use it against him, as everyone else has moved on, if they were ever hung up on it to begin with.

Assholes on the internet are going to asshole. Can’t really blame the GM for assholes on the internet can we? It would be a lot simpler to just blame the assholes on the internet for being assholes wouldn’t it?

Regardless, the guy has already apologized in the media, explained the situation and admitted that it was a dumb thing to have said in his excitment. Most reasonable people were happy to let it go at that point, you know when a guy has the courage to own up for a mistake in public, and then join in on the laugh at his own expense.

In the end Branstrom’s development has zero to do with Stone, and most people understand that. Stone hasn’t really done shit since anyways and is now more of an injury concern going forward, while Branstrom is becoming a valuable member of our team. Even for those who need to hold on to petty grudges, the traded players are heading in opposite directions, and Branstrom has lots of runway left.

Correct. Great post. I enjoy your takes.

 

[robsenz]

The next Karlsson thing was a joke.

We won't see a player like Karlsson for decades.

Runblad was better than Karlsson and 6'2!

At least in the first interview Brannstrom had, the interview mentioned the comparable of another Erik from Sweden and he completely brushed it off stating that Karlsson was a really good player as if it was incredibly a far fetched idea. Never fair to Branny to be swapped straight up for Stone and compared to EK, he can easily be a top 4 in the league and guy who runs the PP on many teams.

 

[Xspyrit]

Yeah, not really though.

It’s only the PD haters that give two shits about that comment, It’s only them who use it against him, as everyone else has moved on, if they were ever hung up on it to begin with.

Assholes on the internet are going to asshole. Can’t really blame the GM for assholes on the internet can we? It would be a lot simpler to just blame the assholes on the internet for being assholes wouldn’t it?

Haters, Losers, assholes, etc... What's next and where will it stop?

Just because some people think Pierre Dorion is not really good at his job?

I mean, it's not like the results back him up... Since 2017-18, only the Red Wings have a worse P%... even the Kraken or the Yotes have had a better one lol

But hey guys, don't you dare criticizing Pierre Dorion! Or you might end up labeled as a loser/asshole by this "poster"!

 

[Xspyrit]

Brannstrom has been excellent this season. He's young, cheap and still has a lot of place to grow.

Among 231 D-men who played at least 300 ES minutes this season, Brannstrom is 51st in xGF/60 and 25th in xGA/60, on a team that struggled at ES, particularly defensively

And it's not like he had the benefit of playing with great players... he mostly played with Holden (even a bit of Zaitsev and Hamonic)

 

[OD99]

Brannstrom has been excellent this season. He's young, cheap and still has a lot of place to grow.

Among 231 D-men who played at least 300 ES minutes this season, Brannstrom is 51st in xGF/60 and 25th in xGA/60, on a team that struggled at ES, particularly defensively

And it's not like he had the benefit of playing with great players... he mostly played with Holden (even a bit of Zaitsev and Hamonic)

But, but, but...zone starts!

 

[Cosmix]

Hey guys,

Remember when Dorion got Brännström from Vegas for Stone, he was all pumped and excited about how great of a deal it was. Given now Brännström is essentially a non-factor in the Sens core, anyone know what happened? Why all the hype at the outset and how did he fizzle so badly relative to that hype?

Simple response: It was Dorion doing Dorion, justifying his trade.

 

[Micklebot]

DJ slipped into one of his interviews that Brannstrom changed his curve and started getting more pucks on net.

 

[JD1]

Dorion in his presser today was quick to identify Brannstrom as a player that exceeded expectations

 

[Dionysus]

Can still develop into a Tobias Enstrom type of dman.

His ability to play up the lineup if need be is important when inevitable injuries hit the defense.

 

[Korpse]

But, but, but...zone starts!

Before All-Star break
45 GP 56.9 xGF% 61.22 OZ start%

After All-Star break
29 GP 53.0 xGF% 51.0 OZ start%

That's interesting. Lets break it down further.

Before the All-Star break Brannstrom's zone starts and xGF% remained fairly consistent. He remained above 55% in both categories over 10 game spans. After the all-star break they aren't consistent.

First 10 games after all star break
48.07 xGF% 33.3 OZ start%

Next 9 games
48.5 xGF% 48.9 OZ start%

Last 10 games of the season
59.6 xGF% 64.4 OZ start %

Zone starts are always going to have an impact on shot based metrics.

 

[OD99]

Before All-Star break
45 GP 56.9 xGF% 61.22 OZ start%

After All-Star break
29 GP 53.0 xGF% 51.0 OZ start%

That's interesting. Lets break it down further.

Before the All-Star break Brannstrom's zone starts and xGF% remained fairly consistent. He remained above 55% in both categories over 10 game spans. After the all-star break they aren't consistent.

First 10 games after all star break
48.07 xGF% 33.3 OZ start%

Next 9 games
48.5 xGF% 48.9 OZ start%

Last 10 games of the season
59.6 xGF% 64.4 OZ start %

Zone starts are always going to have an impact on shot based metrics.

Right but he can only play the minutes he is given and for the most part, he has played quite well all season.

Interested to know what the zone starts actually are? How many times was he actually on for a FO compared to how many times/minutes he is changing on the fly.

His PK minutes picked up quite a bit towards the end it seemed as well. Are the above using 5-5 ice time or all situations?