Erie Otters 2022-23 Season Thread

[GetOutDaKitchin]

it won’t matter if we don’t have the drafting and developing around him. McDavid was amazing but DeBrincat, Strome, Brown, Raddysh bros, and to a lesser extent but still valid, guys like Maksimovich, Pettit, etc played a huge role in the success. Just ask Kingston with Shane Wright. You need more than 1 guy. Certainly the Otters in those days got impact imports in Dansk, Burakovsky, Cernak to help as well. They werent elite in the import draft (failing to land someone in 2014-15 was horrible asset management), but they were MUCH better than current times. So there is so much to work on beyond Spence. Spence is great but he’s not McDavid. And even with McDavid, it took a lot to win at the level they did. I’m just concerned that the coaching staff is very mediocre which is going to limit things. And they seem content or like too stubborn or cheap to admit the mistakes. That might lead to more guys asking for trades and that makes it tougher to sell 15/16 year olds, let alone imports, to come here. This year is going to be a 24-28 win team at best. Same as the prior years. But is that enough to fire BJ after 1 year? I highly doubt it unless Brown is fired but again… I have significant doubts. They will have to win 15-20 games for that to happen and they have just enough talent to avoid that. Certainly Gilmartin will help the win column too

Regradless they are in a no win situation this year. If they win a bit more, say like 30-32 wins (and that’s peak results that aren’t likely), it just results in us retaining the crap staff we have without real needed changes. If we lose games more than prior years - That’s going to impact recruiting and signing players. Not to mention the poor drafting and asset management that already exists. We have a mountain to climb just to get back to 3-4 seed range.. let alone winning a conference or title

Very true. I think Terrance and Alfano are potentially solid, multi-year pieces that can help support Spence. After that, the cupboard appears to be pretty bare. What's so frustrating is (a) Adams and Co. aren't playing guys like Artichuk, Edwards and Lowe enough to allow them to develop at this level (I'd be shocked if the 4th line sees more than 8-9 minutes a game), and (b) Brown has struck out on much-needed imports like Ondrej Molnar.

Quite the mountain to climb indeed.

 

[Mata]

it won’t matter if we don’t have the drafting and developing around him. McDavid was amazing but DeBrincat, Strome, Brown, Raddysh bros, and to a lesser extent but still valid, guys like Maksimovich, Pettit, etc played a huge role in the success. Just ask Kingston with Shane Wright. You need more than 1 guy. Certainly the Otters in those days got impact imports in Dansk, Burakovsky, Cernak to help as well. They werent elite in the import draft (failing to land someone in 2014-15 was horrible asset management), but they were MUCH better than current times. So there is so much to work on beyond Spence. Spence is great but he’s not McDavid. And even with McDavid, it took a lot to win at the level they did. I’m just concerned that the coaching staff is very mediocre which is going to limit things. And they seem content or like too stubborn or cheap to admit the mistakes. That might lead to more guys asking for trades and that makes it tougher to sell 15/16 year olds, let alone imports, to come here. This year is going to be a 24-28 win team at best. Same as the prior years. But is that enough to fire BJ after 1 year? I highly doubt it unless Brown is fired but again… I have significant doubts. They will have to win 15-20 games for that to happen and they have just enough talent to avoid that. Certainly Gilmartin will help the win column too

Regradless they are in a no win situation this year. If they win a bit more, say like 30-32 wins (and that’s peak results that aren’t likely), it just results in us retaining the crap staff we have without real needed changes. If we lose games more than prior years - That’s going to impact recruiting and signing players. Not to mention the poor drafting and asset management that already exists. We have a mountain to climb just to get back to 3-4 seed range.. let alone winning a conference or title

Your eluding to what I was getting at...

Before we fold the team, let's get people in there to develop the rest of it. Spence is the foundation to build around, but if we don't have the right pieces we need to get them. If Waters refuses or DB can't find the right pieces, then fold but we still have options and as you and others have stated, until management has moved on from the "glory days" us clinging to them hurts long term more than it helps.

 

[Mata]

This past game no doubt was big for him !!

W LaLonde out for a few weeks and another couple injuries as well - we may not be totally out for the year .. another single point or OT win even would make the standings look slightly better in this early season

Lalonde is out for a few more weeks, assuming Gibbons outperforms Nicholls in that timeframe I would be comfortable releasing/trading Nicholls at that point to give Gibbons more time in net to develop with the Otters If not, then send him (Gibbons) down for good and let him play a full workload down with our minors. He has been up quite a bit already with the injury to Lalonde. Is it games dressed or games played that count? If it's games dressed, he is likely approaching his limit quickly.

 

[Mata]

Very true. I think Terrance and Alfano are potentially solid, multi-year pieces that can help support Spence. After that, the cupboard appears to be pretty bare. What's so frustrating is (a) Adams and Co. aren't playing guys like Artichuk, Edwards and Lowe enough to allow them to develop at this level (I'd be shocked if the 4th line sees more than 8-9 minutes a game), and (b) Brown has struck out on much-needed imports like Ondrej Molnar.

Quite the mountain to climb indeed.

You pointed out one of the reasons our youth didn't develop under Hartsburg IMO...and now Adams is doing the EXACT SAME THING. There have been stretches where the top 2 lines are playing every other with the 3rd sprinkled in and the 4th sitting for what appears to be half a period, if not longer. Lowe, Smith, Artichuk, Edwards, McDonald, Messier, Signoretti (hasnt played a game yet)...if you're having them called up you NEED to play them consistently and it isn't going to happen shorting them shifts constantly.

 

[NOA]

What the F is this franchise doing?!? Seriously. What the absolute hell are we doing? Brown is complete garbage at asset management. This kid is literally Marshall Nicholls (statistically) and isn’t even in the OHL right now. Yet we give up a 6th round pick for him? Idc if we need another body in net or if you think a 6th rounder is a meh pick to give up —- this is horrible asset management when this kid Downey could have been released given that he’s NOT EVEN ON AN OHL ROSTER or you could give up less picks to get something that might actually be better. Or.. and to be fair this might sound crazy… YOU COULD ATUALLY DEVELOP A GOALIE for once.

Brown is throwing away draft picks like he has nothing to lose or knows the world is going to end in 2 years. Seriously. What a complete a** this guy has become as a GM. Clueless. And to think I previously defended him… what an embarrassment we are right now

 

[HockeyPops]

I like this move, personally. Windsor is really deep in goalie prospects, with a few of them younger than Downey. Plus they are in a win now mentality, so don't have a spot for him to develop this year as an 18 year old. But he was the first goalie picked in the 2020 draft, played decently as a 17 year old in the OHL, and is doing reasonably well right now in the GOJHL on a pretty bad Lasalle team. If Erie can give him OHL icetime this season, there is a good bet he will at least become a competent OHLer, and certainly has lots of upside from there.

Like I said, I like this move.

 

[Generalsupdates]

What the F is this franchise doing?!? Seriously. What the absolute hell are we doing? Brown is complete garbage at asset management. This kid is literally Marshall Nicholls (statistically) and isn’t even in the OHL right now. Yet we give up a 6th round pick for him? Idc if we need another body in net or if you think a 6th rounder is a meh pick to give up —- this is horrible asset management when this kid Downey could have been released given that he’s NOT EVEN ON AN OHL ROSTER or you could give up less picks to get something that might actually be better. Or.. and to be fair this might sound crazy… YOU COULD ATUALLY DEVELOP A GOALIE for once.

Brown is throwing away draft picks like he has nothing to lose or knows the world is going to end in 2 years. Seriously. What a complete a** this guy has become as a GM. Clueless. And to think I previously defended him… what an embarrassment we are right now

I like Downey as a guy to take a chance on, but I don't get it for Erie to be the team doing it. You have a clear #1 who is back next year too so no need to trade him. And Gibbons is a good young goalie and future starter. The only rational I can see is they're doing this so they can send Gibbons down to a lower league so he can play more this season

 

[Mata]

I like Downey as a guy to take a chance on, but I don't get it for Erie to be the team doing it. You have a clear #1 who is back next year too so no need to trade him. And Gibbons is a good young goalie and future starter. The only rational I can see is they're doing this so they can send Gibbons down to a lower league so he can play more this season

That actually makes the most sense and am glad for an outside perspective, but is he really OHL ready? I can tell you Nicholls is not and quite possibly never will be. Gibbons has promise so I do see your point in making him go to the lower level before he suits up for too many games.

However, at the same time I definitely am with @NOA in WTF is the franchise doing!?!?!? A 6th rounder for a kid who COULD be good is pretty desperate for a franchise (Erie) that needs to win sooner rather than later. It reeks of if I (DB) am going down I'm going to screw the club so hard the person quite literally has no chance to be successful.

 

[Moroz]

I have to agree with most of what has been said about the Downey trade. It does strike me as a move made out of desperation by a GM who is on the hot seat. The Gilmartin trade also had the ring of desperation about it as well.

The trade does make me wonder whether Lalonde's injury is going to keep him out of the line up for a very long time. I may have missed it, but I am not aware on any official statement from the Otters as to the severity of the injury. A little more transparency here would be a good thing.

Stepping back from the immediacy of the situation, every team experiences injuries - they are just part of the game. However, I think that this problem has been greatly compounded by Brown's complete mismanagement of the goaltending over the past several years.

Last year, Campbell's injury left us with Lalonde and Nicholls as our goaltenders for virtually the entire year. Lalonde was run into the ground in a vain attempt to make the 8th seed, due to the fact that Nicholls was simply not an adequate back up.

With that experience in hand, Brown did nothing to address this situation, but instead chose to enter 2022-23 with the same goaltending tandem. Based on his performance last year, there was absolutely no reason to believe that Nicholls would be an adequate back up, much less a guy who could step into a starter's role should Lalonde go down. Nicholls record thus far this year has done nothing to change that conclusion (.848 save pct., 4.13 GAA).

Where would the Otters be if Brown had spent the resources used in the Gilmartin and Downey trades to acquire a legitimate OHL quality goaltender in the offseaon? Why did he instead choose to to ignore this obvious weakness? If drafting Gibbons was intended to be the answer, why then has Nicholls been starting over Gibbons? None of this makes sense.

Lalonde's injury is truly unfortunate, especially for Lalonde after doing so well with Columbus. It is likewise very unfortunate for the team, but it need not have been the disaster that it appears it may be shaping up to be.

 

[7D442]

I have to agree with most of what has been said about the Downey trade. It does strike me as a move made out of desperation by a GM who is on the hot seat. The Gilmartin trade also had the ring of desperation about it as well.

The trade does make me wonder whether Lalonde's injury is going to keep him out of the line up for a very long time. I may have missed it, but I am not aware on any official statement from the Otters as to the severity of the injury. A little more transparency here would be a good thing.

Stepping back from the immediacy of the situation, every team experiences injuries - they are just part of the game. However, I think that this problem has been greatly compounded by Brown's complete mismanagement of the goaltending over the past several years.

Last year, Campbell's injury left us with Lalonde and Nicholls as our goaltenders for virtually the entire year. Lalonde was run into the ground in a vain attempt to make the 8th seed, due to the fact that Nicholls was simply not an adequate back up.

With that experience in hand, Brown did nothing to address this situation, but instead chose to enter 2022-23 with the same goaltending tandem. Based on his performance last year, there was absolutely no reason to believe that Nicholls would be an adequate back up, much less a guy who could step into a starter's role should Lalonde go down. Nicholls record thus far this year has done nothing to change that conclusion (.848 save pct., 4.13 GAA).

Where would the Otters be if Brown had spent the resources used in the Gilmartin and Downey trades to acquire a legitimate OHL quality goaltender in the offseaon? Why did he instead choose to to ignore this obvious weakness? If drafting Gibbons was intended to be the answer, why then has Nicholls been starting over Gibbons? None of this makes sense.

Lalonde's injury is truly unfortunate, especially for Lalonde after doing so well with Columbus. It is likewise very unfortunate for the team, but it need not have been the disaster that it appears it may be shaping up

I like Downey as a guy to take a chance on, but I don't get it for Erie to be the team doing it. You have a clear #1 who is back next year too so no need to trade him. And Gibbons is a good young goalie and future starter. The only rational I can see is they're doing this so they can send Gibbons down to a lower league so he can play more this season

Spot on ..

Lalonde hurt and needs more time to heal so Nichols starts

Gibbons has been sent down so we still need another goalie - ie Downey

 

[NOA]

To clarify - my issue isn’t with adding another goalie at this time. Especially if there are injury issues. But why this guy and why that price? From what Downey has shown, he’s not really an OHL player but at best a fringe guy. We give up a 6th for that? You mean to tell me there weren’t other options that could provide that same production? Especially when we are not a good team… so we are wasting a 6th round pick for what? Someone to play 5-10 games and struggle? Probably will not help us win any games more than what any other goalie off the street could. Why not just go with Gibbons? He’s free and can develop. If he’s not ready than why not a former draft pick? Nope, that’s right we can’t develop goalie.

 

[OttersFan]

Lucus Signoretti is no longer on the roster.

 

[NOA]

Lucus Signoretti is no longer on the roster.

Wow what a draft pick!! 2nd rounder that never really got the chance and/or wasn’t developed by the coaching.

Dave strikes again! That’s about 25 strikes in the last few years. If 3 strikes is an out, he is up to 8 outs. Maybe JW likes baseball and is willing to give Dave 27 outs for 9 innings of play. If so, we got a longggg way to go…

 

[OHL4Life]

Wow what a draft pick!! 2nd rounder that never really got the chance and/or wasn’t developed by the coaching.

Dave strikes again! That’s about 25 strikes in the last few years. If 3 strikes is an out, he is up to 8 outs. Maybe JW likes baseball and is willing to give Dave 27 outs for 9 innings of play. If so, we got a longggg way to go…

they really struggled with drafting the past few years

 

[GetOutDaKitchin]

What the F is this franchise doing?!? Seriously. What the absolute hell are we doing? Brown is complete garbage at asset management. This kid is literally Marshall Nicholls (statistically) and isn’t even in the OHL right now. Yet we give up a 6th round pick for him? Idc if we need another body in net or if you think a 6th rounder is a meh pick to give up —- this is horrible asset management when this kid Downey could have been released given that he’s NOT EVEN ON AN OHL ROSTER or you could give up less picks to get something that might actually be better. Or.. and to be fair this might sound crazy… YOU COULD ATUALLY DEVELOP A GOALIE for once.

Brown is throwing away draft picks like he has nothing to lose or knows the world is going to end in 2 years. Seriously. What a complete a** this guy has become as a GM. Clueless. And to think I previously defended him… what an embarrassment we are right now

This is the correct take. Put our current goaltending/injury situation aside - to give up a 6th (1) for a goalie who's not on an OHL roster, and (2) to a team who's flush with goaltending prospects, which should have only served to weaken Windor's leverage in trade negotiations, is poor asset management. Reeks of desperation.

On the bright side, sending Gibbons down to North York in the OJHL for (hopefully) the rest of the season is the right move for his development. He'll easily be the most talented tender on that roster and should see a lot of rubber, as North York is not a strong team this year. His numbers probably won't be stellar, but it's the right decision.

 

[OHL4Life]

This is the correct take. Put our current goaltending/injury situation aside - to give up a 6th (1) for a goalie who's not on an OHL roster, and (2) to a team who's flush with goaltending prospects, which should have only served to weaken Windor's leverage in trade negotiations, is poor asset management. Reeks of desperation.

On the bright side, sending Gibbons down to North York in the OJHL for (hopefully) the rest of the season is the right move for his development. He'll easily be the most talented tender on that roster and should see a lot of rubber, as North York is not a strong team this year. His numbers probably won't be stellar, but it's the right decision.

ojhl or midget? i see him on the midget roster.

 

[Mata]

they really struggled with drafting the past few years

It's almost like Brown was never good at drafting...or trades...or hiring coaches to develop players. We hid behind our glory years and a "rebuild" that isn't happening. Our reporting of the team is so biased trying to hide the major flaws that exist it became the new gold standard for fiction.

You'd think with the likes of Lalonde, Spence, Sova, Terrance that just MAYBE kids would want to come to Erie, but then they take a step back and say...did you see what Sproule did when he left, how about the tear Lockhart has been on to start this season and they start to scratch their heads wondering if this current regime is a good fit.

There is no doubt the city and fans are crazy awesome when the team is even MEDIOCRE, but we haven't even sniffed medicotry in the past 5 seasons.

 

[NOA]

It's almost like Brown was never good at drafting...or trades...or hiring coaches to develop players. We hid behind our glory years and a "rebuild" that isn't happening. Our reporting of the team is so biased trying to hide the major flaws that exist it became the new gold standard for fiction.

You'd think with the likes of Lalonde, Spence, Sova, Terrance that just MAYBE kids would want to come to Erie, but then they take a step back and say...did you see what Sproule did when he left, how about the tear Lockhart has been on to start this season and they start to scratch their heads wondering if this current regime is a good fit.

There is no doubt the city and fans are crazy awesome when the team is even MEDIOCRE, but we haven't even sniffed medicotry in the past 5 seasons.

Well said. Agree 100%

 

[OttersFan]

Wow what a draft pick!! 2nd rounder that never really got the chance and/or wasn’t developed by the coaching.

Dave strikes again! That’s about 25 strikes in the last few years. If 3 strikes is an out, he is up to 8 outs. Maybe JW likes baseball and is willing to give Dave 27 outs for 9 innings of play. If so, we got a longggg way to go…

My exact thoughts on Dave Brown. But sure bring Gilmartin here because that really was the move we needed to compete. I’ve shared my thoughts on DB, and he’s treading water in my book. Every trade he’s done, aside from the Lockhart trade hasn’t made sense. The Lockhart trade made sense to gain picks and to give younger guys ice. Instead of keeping the picks DB hands them out for free a week later.

I know Nicholls hasn’t been great, but his team in front of him hasn’t been either. They didn’t play for Nicholls, but sure bringing a same caliber goalie will solve everything! Atleast Gibbons looks promising, and so has others at 15-16 years old but that’s to be ruined by our staff’s poor plan to develop players.


Honestly I felt Signoretti had a good preseason. I thought he was due for a good year since he works hard every shift, but again what do I know.

 

[Mata]

My exact thoughts on Dave Brown. But sure bring Gilmartin here because that really was the move we needed to compete. I’ve shared my thoughts on DB, and he’s treading water in my book. Every trade he’s done, aside from the Lockhart trade hasn’t made sense. The Lockhart trade made sense to gain picks and to give younger guys ice. Instead of keeping the picks DB hands them out for free a week later.

I know Nicholls hasn’t been great, but his team in front of him hasn’t been either. They didn’t play for Nicholls, but sure bringing a same caliber goalie will solve everything! Atleast Gibbons looks promising, and so has others at 15-16 years old but that’s to be ruined by our staff’s poor plan to develop players.


Honestly I felt Signoretti had a good preseason. I thought he was due for a good year since he works hard every shift, but again what do I know.

I think Signoretti was just the odd man out for short players with a team trying desperately to get bigger. Artichuk and Saganiuk were just slightly ahead in the eyes of those that matter.

The very least the org could have done is a proper send off with a thank you, etc.

 

[OttersFan]

I think Signoretti was just the odd man out for short players with a team trying desperately to get bigger. Artichuk and Saganiuk were just slightly ahead in the eyes of those that matter.

The very least the org could have done is a proper send off with a thank you, etc.

I agree and we all predicted this would happen to one of the shorter players.

You’d think they’d give a proper send off. They could’ve rotated him in to a regular season game or two. It’s a business, but the best the management could do is have him work the iPad in his suit every night?

Obviously I’m not a scout and my opinion isn’t worth anything, but I think Signoretti deserved better.

 

[Mata]

They must have zero confidence in Nicholls if Downey is starting on such short notice and Gibbons, as predicted is sent down.

 

[OttersFan]

They must have zero confidence in Nicholls if Downey is starting on such short notice and Gibbons, as predicted is sent down.

Plus they’re running three full forward lines with an extra defenseman.

 

[OttersFan]

Morton for a slew foot match penalty. Exactly what we needed to start this weekend with. To be fair, it didn’t look entirely like a textbook definition.

The Niagara player threw an elbow at Morton and he lost his balance. Terrible call.

 

[Mata]

Morton for a slew foot match penalty. Exactly what we needed to start this weekend with. To be fair, it didn’t look entirely like a textbook definition.

When slowed down you kind of had an argument for a slew foot, but it was pretty weak.

I hope he will be reviewed and back right away, but who knows.

Am impressed so far by Downey especially on no notice.