GWT: EPL - Matchweek 3

[Bringer of Jollity]

So what does that tactic look like? Are they buying players to do what they would want? Is it feasible over a full season? Are they just a cup team who got lucky with draws and results? Like, I've seen a tactic. Wait for other teams to come on, try and counter attack and play like you're a minnow, even at home. But what does that mean for a full season?

My issue is what he's trying seems to change or waffle every other week, or every couple months. Or shit, even in some matches, they do something, but don't really look like they're committed to it so they change it. Sometimes the front will press, but disorganized. Sometimes the wingers have to track back and provide assistance, other times they're stagnant. Beyond being players he worked with, what exactly is a ETH player? Sure, the front office did him no favors, but even when players are bought, he would stick with past guys and leave others out.

It's not year one. It's year three. Sure, management around him is changing, and he's being forced to adapt, but if he's got the second most trophies, what exactly is a ETH team?

Apparently he wants to use a top 10 payroll in the world to assemble a team of Dutch and former Ajax players and play some weird version of Sean Dyche ball. Have to wait another 2 or 3 seasons for it to come together though.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

The thing is, we would not be having this conversation if a Coventry City player had held their run by 0.001 seconds in the FA Cup semis, capping a 0-3 to 4-3 comeback for a mid table Championship side against the richest club on the planet.

I don’t think there’s anything else that needs to be discussed past that.

 

[S E P H]

I think a big part of it is Spurs' buys are generally kind of budget second-tier options they're hoping to hit home on/hone through teamwork and coaching, as opposed to big-name, 100 mil types Utd are splashing for (while simultaneously crying poor). So expectations are obviously going to be elsewhere. That said, I also haven't really heard anyone non-Spurs singing the praises of Ange lately, so I'm not sure that part holds up either. And in cases where it is true, as Chimaera says, they're at least playing an attractive brand of football and that will always give hope

Even though I fully agree with you here, we have to admit that United actually had a decent transfer window. Yoro, Ugarte, de Ligt, and Mazraoui are all solid players who fill positions they were severely weak in. And Zirkzee is not necessarily a position of weakness, but is still a solid get. That is after a couple of putrid transfer windows, however. Spurs on the other side will always struggle to get top-quality targets, but make up for it in different ways like having a superior manager even though I suggest Ange is nothing to write home about.

Spurs went from 8th to 5th under Ange. That's what you call improving.

There is a hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee difference between improving and keeping that successful long-term. In every sport, we always see flukes and like I mentioned in my prediction post, it is very easy to figure things out after having more tape on them. Ange wants to play one way and he got exposed by it at St. James' Park. Even if the football is good, he still is a one-trick pony that could hurt from you lot taking the next step.

 

[Chimaera]

United had a good window. No doubt. Though, it helped that a lot of clubs were not buying and many were actually pretty hamstrung by finances.

It helps actually having some football guys with a plot in charge. But ETH should have a plot as well.

 

[S E P H]

United had a good window. No doubt. Though, it helped that a lot of clubs were not buying and many were actually pretty hamstrung by finances.

It helps actually having some football guys with a plot in charge. But ETH should have a plot as well.

When you have the Bald Supreme Leader of the Titanic steering the ship, you need all the help you can get lol.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

.Ange wants to play one way and he got exposed by it at St. James' Park.

No he didn't.

They failed to score, his system did exactly what it supposed to do but with every single striker injured, the wingers couldn't finish. They have 48 shots in 3 matches without their finishers in lineup.

They will be fine.

 

[luiginb]

They had trouble with their center backs staying healthy and bought two injury prone ones though

 

[Jussi]

The thing is, we would not be having this conversation if a Coventry City player had held their run by 0.001 seconds in the FA Cup semis, capping a 0-3 to 4-3 comeback for a mid table Championship side against the richest club on the planet.

I don’t think there’s anything else that needs to be discussed past that.

I didn't know Real Madrid played in England.

They had trouble with their center backs staying healthy and bought two injury prone ones though

De Ligt's been healthy recently though.

 

[S E P H]

No he didn't.

They failed to score, his system did exactly what it supposed to do but with every single striker injured, the wingers couldn't finish. They have 48 shots in 3 matches without their finishers in lineup.

They will be fine.

They were directly scored on with the GWG by his high defensive line that he never wants to change.

 

[Jussi]

No he didn't.

They failed to score, his system did exactly what it supposed to do but with every single striker injured, the wingers couldn't finish. They have 48 shots in 3 matches without their finishers in lineup.

They will be fine.

Sounds familiar...

 

[Chimaera]

To be fair, United would be richer had they not just lit money on fire with transfers

 

[The Abusement Park]

Basically I think ETH did a good job at Utrecht because as a whole he’s a good man manager and motivator. He was able to get away with this weird pressing, countering chaos ball there because the expectations there just aren’t that high.

Then he moves to Ajax after Bosz and De Boer and it seems like he lucked out in getting a core of players that was A) just insanely talented and B) had been drilled and coached incredibly well to the point where ETH’s system didn’t necessarily matter. Add in his good man managing skills and it got him great results, especially in the UCL where once again expectations weren’t high and they were a plucky underdog.

Now he did semi decent his first year(and rode a Rashford heater) but regardless he got thrown into a dumpster fire of a situation. And again while his man management is decent, it doesn’t matter because chaos ball for a team that’s goals are to make top 4 and compete in the CL won’t cut it. So now it’s up to him to either prove he’s not tactically inept or just ride off into the flames and lose his job.

 

[Jussi]

Basically I think ETH did a good job at Utrecht because as a whole he’s a good man manager and motivator. He was able to get away with this weird pressing, countering chaos ball there because the expectations there just aren’t that high.

Then he moves to Ajax after Bosz and De Boer and it seems like he lucked out in getting a core of players that was A) just insanely talented and B) had been drilled and coached incredibly well to the point where ETH’s system didn’t necessarily matter. Add in his good man managing skills and it got him great results, especially in the UCL where once again expectations weren’t high and they were a plucky underdog.

Now he did semi decent his first year(and rode a Rashford heater) but regardless he got thrown into a dumpster fire of a situation. And again while his man management is decent, it doesn’t matter because chaos ball for a team that’s goals are to make top 4 and compete in the CL won’t cut it. So now it’s up to him to either prove he’s not tactically inept or just ride off into the flames and lose his job.

Sounds almost like Slot with Liverpool...

 

[The Abusement Park]

To be fair, United would be richer had they not just lit money on fire with transfers

Yeah the Glazers have been making tons of money even while running United into the ground. If they had been running the club at an even half decent level it’s crazy to think how much more money they could be making.

 

[luiginb]

Bosz is underrated because he failed at many teams, but man where his teams actually played well they played beautiful possession football.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Sounds almost like Slot with Liverpool...

I mean 3 games into his Liverpool tenure is a bit early to say that no?

 

[Jussi]

I mean 3 games into his Liverpool tenure is a bit early to say that no?

What, that he got team with a good material and a well oiled system making it far easier to settle in?

Yeah the Glazers have been making tons of money even while running United into the ground. If they had been running the club at an even half decent level it’s crazy to think how much more money they could be making.

Or had Sir Jim/INEOS been able to move in earlier.

 

[The Abusement Park]

What, that he got team with a good material and a well oiled system making it far easier to settle in?


Or had Sir Jim/INEOS been able to move in earlier.

Sure he had a better scenario coming in. But he’s been here for 3 games, that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s going to be good or bad. It’s just say to early to make that claim.

3 seasons in is to late for ETH when there’s still no play style with him. If there was a structure, a clear plan and there were growing pains and issues with the previous ownership there’d be a different viewpoint on him.

 

[MM917]

Spurs went from 8th to 5th under Ange. That's what you call improving.

ManU was 6th the season before ETH took over and were 8th last year. That is what you call regressing.

Can I assist further?

4th under Conte the year before, 4th under Conte when he left then dropped to 8th with two managers who never managed before in Stellini and Mason.

So if you are going to offer nothing but crap like that with no context or thinking then no you cannot assist any further.

Ange gets a pass because his team plays some good football and it looks like there is plan in place.

EtH looks lost tactically and the squad has yet to improve despite the money they are putting into it.

But the football we play is awful. It is not good to watch and it is not a style that will lead to winning.

 

[MM917]

No he didn't.

They failed to score, his system did exactly what it supposed to do but with every single striker injured, the wingers couldn't finish. They have 48 shots in 3 matches without their finishers in lineup.

They will be fine.

none of those shots were dangerous or from dangerous places. It is the same thing when people talk about our possession we do nothing with it. We are toothless up front not just because of the crap players but because the system doesn't create quality chances.

 

[Live in the Now]

Sounds almost like Slot with Liverpool...

The tactics aren't the same. We beat a couple teams that sucked ass so maybe you can't tell it isn't the same system as last season, but it's not.

 

[Jussi]

The tactics aren't the same. We beat a couple teams that sucked ass so maybe you can't tell it isn't the same system as last season, but it's not.

Not the point. Point was that Liverpool already a had a good "base", material and tactics, which made it easier for Slot to incorporate what he intends to bring.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

4th under Conte the year before, 4th under Conte when he left then dropped to 8th with two managers who never managed before in Stellini and Mason.

So if you are going to offer nothing but crap like that with no context or thinking then no you cannot assist any further.

Don't be an asshole, this board doesn't take kindly to it.

The 2 years under ETH are the worst 2 consecutive years in terms of the standings since 16-17. Before that, they are the worst ManU have had since 90-91.

The 5 years before Ange, Spurs were 4th, 6th. 7th, 4th and 8th. Where does that 5th place finish last year fit in the 6 years prior?

Take your context and enjoy 10th place.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Not the point. Point was that Liverpool already a had a good "base", material and tactics, which made it easier for Slot to incorporate what he intends to bring.

Or maybe you can just stop making excuses for a manager whose had unlimited funds to do what he wants for years now.

Even that 3rd place finish in his first year ManU looked like utter ass and were getting smoked 7-0 by teams like Liverpool.

 

[Chimaera]

We can make excuses for whomever we want.

Slot basically had 2 weeks to work with most of his players, prebuilt team or not. They're already seeing significant tactical changes, along with a change to how he's asking some of the players to perform.

It's impressive, no matter what the measuring stick is. we can argue till the cows come home about whether or not he already had a roster and just got the keys to it, but when Klopp left, this side was tired, leaking goals, and more than a bit stale. Slot is at least smart enough to know how to take some of what the club was already good at and inject what he wants to do. Not sure every manager could do that. Whether that's on Slot for saying, here's how I'm going to work with what I've got, or on having a competent group deciding who the manager is with a plan in place to work with what they've got, it's kind of irrelevant. There are plenty of managers who would bomb out some of the veterans to show who is boss or decide they can't fit what they want to do.