Epic Calder Race 2024-25

[Frank Drebin]

Is this still epic? Seems like a pretty boring year Calder wise. One runs a bad teams PP, one was hurt, and one wasnt as good as the hurt guy.

Hello!!

 

[Cas]

Here I'll give you another stat that MIGHT enlighten you on his impact.

When Hutson gets a point in a game:
24-11-1
When Hutson doesn't get a point in a game:
6-15-4

So what you're saying is that a particular team wins more when one of their better players scores in that game?

This kind of analysis is utterly pointless - every full-time player should show exactly the same breakdown.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

So what you're saying is that a particular team wins more when one of their better players scores in that game?

This kind of analysis is utterly pointless - every full-time player should show exactly the same breakdown.

But that's exactly the point. He is one of the team's best players. The poster I responded to was talking of secondary assists as if Hutson is leeching off other better players on the team. Habs are 7-14-1 when Suzuki doesn't get a point, similar to Hutson.

 

[Cas]

But that's exactly the point. He is one of the team's best players. The poster I responded to was talking of secondary assists as if Hutson is leeching off other better players on the team. Habs are 7-14-1 when Suzuki doesn't get a point, similar to Hutson.

I think a better analysis would be in terms of goals created - something as simplistic as team record just doesn't tell you anything meaningful.

 

[sbhnur]

So many sensitive guys here. Be happy about that great young studs out there. It's only the calder trophy and ONE first season of many.

Don't take it too seriously, the best rookie may not even win that trophy bc it's a subjective vote in the end.

As Flyers fan I'm just happy we have MM playing in Philly and I like all those great prospect and wish they can live up to the hype in the future.

 

[pepperMonkey]

This isn't fantasy hockey, Hutson is 45th in TOI for all Dman and if you were to do a total redraft throw everyone in the pool for the rest of the season there would be easily 30 Dman taken ahead of him for the single year redraft.

Celebrini might be on the cusp of 60th forward in such a scenario but still outside.

Just as an aside, and we know such stats are totally useless since what Hutson is doing right now seems to be immaterial but Hutson is currently 22nd on the all-time rookie D points record.
And Celebrini is currently 343rd on the all-time rookie points record. Assuming he can get to, say 60 pts, Celebrini would end up in 120th all-time rookie position (Hutson would be 7th).

 

[Star Platinum]

Hutson tied for 4th in the league in secondary assists. Over half his points are secondary assists.

One of the worst defensive d-man in the league.

I would expect any good offensive defenseman to have more than half of their assists be secondary assists. His percentage of primary assists vs secondary assists is not out of line with other defensemen.

Good skater, good passer, good player.

 

[wetcoast]

Don’t like this argument.

1) could easily be time management for a rookie, it’s a long season and they often get gassed. Think we saw this before 4 nations where the wear of the long season was slowing him down and then after he perked right back into form.

If a Dman needs time management maybe that's your first clue that they probably wouldn't be in the top 30 throw everyone in the pool for the rest of season redraft and only for the immediate rest of the season (or at the start of the season if we are in the offseason or really early on)

2) coaches get things wrong all the time. If he truly believes Matheson is better….. ok we also had a coach play David desharnais as our 1st line center for 2 seasons.

Sure they do but I'm going to trust the nHL coach over randam posters, some of which simply don't make very good arguments.

Matheson is getting demolished offensively by Hutson so where is he making the gap up. Defense? Matheson sucks bad aswell. He’s good for a laughable gaffe a game

Sure but like I said we saw Matheson do fine offensively last season, he is an all situation Dman playing Top #1 Dman MPG.

 

[ole ole]

Hutson tied for 4th in the league in secondary assists. Over half his points are secondary assists.

One of the worst defensive d-man in the league.

Carefull your talking about this yrs Calder winner.

 

[Habssince89]

I love when people dismiss secondary assists like they don't matter, or that D men aren't more likely to be the secondary than the primary on a scoring play. Learn the game!

 

[Matthew McConaughay]

I love when people dismiss secondary assists like they don't matter, or that D men aren't more likely to be the secondary than the primary on a scoring play. Learn the game!

If it's so easy to have secondary assists, why every Dmen don't have 30-40 in a season lol.

 

[wetcoast]

Just as an aside, and we know such stats are totally useless since what Hutson is doing right now seems to be immaterial but Hutson is currently 22nd on the all-time rookie D points record.
And Celebrini is currently 343rd on the all-time rookie points record. Assuming he can get to, say 60 pts, Celebrini would end up in 120th all-time rookie position (Hutson would be 7th).

I guess 2 things here.

First there have always been more forwards "more ready" and given longer leashes in their rookie years.

Secondly I doubt that many voters are going to look at this to make their decision so it becomes just interesting.

I mean Larry Murphy has the current record, does anyone really think that he had the best offensive season by a rookie Dman ever?

Also "historically" Hutson will go down as having the second worst goals total of any Calder winning Dman only "worsted" by Barrett jackman in a year where Zetterberg was the top forward with 44 points.

But the thing is that it's a meaningless thing to bring up, voters are looking in season how each rookie compares and many will have multiple viewing and impressions that they might use more to weigh their votes than what any of us on the board says.

 

[tiburon12]

I love when people dismiss secondary assists like they don't matter, or that D men aren't more likely to be the secondary than the primary on a scoring play. Learn the game!

Hutson, Karlsson, Bouchard, Seider, and Gohstisbehere are the only Dman over 35 points who have more secondary assists than they do other points. so out if the top 22 NHL dman for points, 17 have more primary points than secondary.

Seems like it's more likely for the top Dmen to have more primary points.

53% of Hutson's points are secondary. Compared to the top 5 dman for scoring:

Makar - 70% primary
Werenski - 67% Primary
Hughes - 67% Primary
Hedman - 63% Primary
Dahlin - 66% primary


We can accept that Hutson is racking up points at an impressive level while also realizing that what he;'s doing isn't in the same ball park as the true top offensive dmen in the league

 

[Star Platinum]

I love when people dismiss secondary assists like they don't matter, or that D men aren't more likely to be the secondary than the primary on a scoring play. Learn the game!

Some secondary assists are more impressive than others. Same can be said for primary assists as well.

Defensemen will always be at a disadvantage in getting goals and primary assists just from the part of the ice that they have to occupy to guard against odd-man rushes.

If it's so easy to have secondary assists, why every Dmen don't have 30-40 in a season lol.

It's easier to understand when you're a Sharks fan and you get to see what the low end of skill is among NHL defensemen

 

[Star Platinum]

delete

 

[Star Platinum]

Hutson, Karlsson, Bouchard, Seider, and Gohstisbehere are the only Dman over 35 points who have more secondary assists than they do other points. so out if the top 22 NHL dman for points, 17 have more primary points than secondary.

Seems like it's more likely for the top Dmen to have more primary points.

53% of Hutson's assists are secondary. Compared to the top 5 dman for scoring:

Makar - 70% primary assists
Werenski - 67% Primary
Hughes - 67% Primary
Hedman - 63% Primary
Dahlin - 66% primary

We can accept that Hutson is racking up points at an impressive level while also realizing that what he's doing isn't in the same ball park as the true top offensive dmen in the league

Math is off here.

Makar - 56.5%
Werenski - 54.3%
Hughes - 56.5%
Hedman - 53.8%
Dahlin - 56.4%
Hutson - 40.9%

I wouldn't expect Hudson to ever be a big goal scorer as his shot is not a strength of his game. More of a puck management type of defenseman. Personally, if I'm ranking the traits I want my offensive defenseman to have, I prioritize passing and skating over the heavy shot, though it's always great to have all 3 in one guy, but you don't expect a defenseman that lasts until round 2 to be a perfect player.

 

[Frank Drebin]

The cope has moved on to primary vs secondary assists

 

[Frank Drebin]

Hutson, Karlsson, Bouchard, Seider, and Gohstisbehere are the only Dman over 35 points who have more secondary assists than they do other points. so out if the top 22 NHL dman for points, 17 have more primary points than secondary.

Seems like it's more likely for the top Dmen to have more primary points.

53% of Hutson's assists are secondary. Compared to the top 5 dman for scoring:

Makar - 70% primary assists
Werenski - 67% Primary
Hughes - 67% Primary
Hedman - 63% Primary
Dahlin - 66% primary


We can accept that Hutson is racking up points at an impressive level while also realizing that what he;'s doing isn't in the same ball park as the true top offensive dmen in the league

Those are primary points not primary assists
Hutson has a 17:24 ratio while makar has a 25:20 ratio

Hutson a1 ratio: 41%
Makar a1 ratio: 56%
Werenski: 53%

 

[tiburon12]

Math is off here.

Makar - 56.5%
Werenski - 54.3%
Hughes - 56.5%
Hedman - 53.8%
Dahlin - 56.4%
Hutson - 40.9%

I wouldn't expect Hudson to ever be a big goal scorer as his shot is not a strength of his game. More of a puck management type of defenseman. Personally, if I'm ranking the traits I want my offensive defenseman to have, I prioritize passing and skating over the heavy shot, though it's always great to have all 3 in one guy, but you don't expect a defenseman that lasts until round 2 to be a perfect player.

Those are primary points not primary assists
Hutson has a 17:24 ratio while makar has a 25:20 ratio

Hutson a1 ratio: 41%
Makar a1 ratio: 56%
Werenski: 53%

yea i read this chart wrong, thanks for the check. https://www.icydata.hockey/player_stats/primary-and-secondary/47/stats

and updated my post. Weaker point, but still valid, especially the part that every other top 20+ dman except a few have more 1a than 2a. Hutson is making plays at an amazing level, especially for a rookie, but he is still far behind the big dogs.

The cope has moved on to primary vs secondary assists

no cope needed when we get to watch this every game:

 

[Frank Drebin]

yea i read this chart wrong, thanks for the check. https://www.icydata.hockey/player_stats/primary-and-secondary/47/stats

and updated my post. Weaker point, but still valid, especially the part that every other top 20+ dman except a few have more 1a than 2a. Hutson is making plays at an amazing level, especially for a rookie, but he is still far behind the big dogs.

Now compare celebrini to draisatl and Michkov to kirill kaprizov

 

[Star Platinum]

Now compare celebrini to draisatl and Michkov to kirill kaprizov

May take a couple of seasons for Celebrini to catch up to Draisaitl

 

[Frank Drebin]

no cope needed when we get to watch this every game:

Awesome. Celebrini is an awesome player and i dont feel the need to compare him to 25-30 year old superstars to feel better about lane hutson

 

[Star Platinum]

delete

 

[tiburon12]

Now compare celebrini to draisatl and Michkov to kirill kaprizov

we're not the ones saying Celebrini is better than he is in reality. That's y'all's avenue and we're not bigheaded enough to try and walk down it.

I forget, was it Habs fans saying that Hutson should be in the Norris conversation? Help remind me

Also, the poster i first responded to made a claim about "D men (are) more likely to be the secondary than the primary on a scoring play" and you and I both disproved that ridiculous claim.

 

[Frank Drebin]

we're not the ones saying Celebrini is better than he is in reality. That's y'all's avenue and we're not bigheaded enough to try and walk down it.

I forget, was it Habs fans saying that Hutson should be in the Norris conversation? Help remind me

Also, the poster i first responded to made a claim about "D men (are) more likely to be the secondary than the primary on a scoring play" and you and I both disproved that ridiculous claim.

If you want to be taken seriously while responding to lowest common denominator troll posts i wish you the best of luck

delete

You know you can delete posts, it’s just under edit