Entire Russian U-18 team replaced due to positive drug tests

[Namejs]

So, homeopathy is a multi billion dollar business as well but it is all based on placebo effect. What I am saying if meldonium was a cure for ischemic disease as you claimed earlier it would have been long ago approved by FDA making billions.

Homeopathy is a pseudoscientific hoax.

Meldonium has been clinically tested (including testing with several control groups, one of which was administred a placebo), and it works.

 

[KarIgo87]

Will sure be interesting to see what will the Russian roster look like and how will they perform.

Well, it'll be mostly U17 team, so almost exact roster as at U17 Five Nations Tournament in Michigan this February. So 80% of this roster plus Sergachev, Minulin and a few others.

 

[Namejs]

Please enough. I think this is ridiculous.

I agree, you're making groundless claims based on nothing but your imagination. You are intellectually lazy and haven't spent a second of your time to look up all the research and testing that has been carried out to test the efficacy of meldonium.

If you insist on continuing this way, there's no point to this discussion. We're just going to go in circles indefinitely.

 

[v-man]

I wonder if your opinion has anything to do with you being all about everything Latvian, and this drug being Latvian.

Hmmmm....

No, I've been a staunch anti-WADA advocate ever since the Dick Pound days. They're no better than FIFA or the IOC. It's all about power and perception, not truly cleaning sports. An institution that has no appeals process and doesn't have to back-up its decisions with facts or proof in any way has no right to make decisions that govern and alter the lives of millions of people. In the past they've gone out of their way to shame, vilify and suspend athletes who've inadvertently taken something with minuscule traces of some prohibited substance (to treat medical issues) and placed them right along side long-time legitimate dopers, which is simply reprehensible.

 

[Helistin]

Sad to see so many Russian athletes have heart problems. Atleast they are getting medicine for whatever condition they all have.

 

[Siberian]

I agree, you're making groundless claims based on nothing but your imagination. You are intellectually lazy and haven't spent a second of your time to look up all the research and testing that has been carried out to test the efficacy of meldonium.

If you insist on continuing this way, there's no point to this discussion. We're just going to go in circles indefinitely.

Your ischemic disease cure is embarassing enough. you have no idea what you are talking about. Stop accusing me.

 

[Siberian]

Sad to see so many Russian athletes have heart problems. Atleast they are getting medicine for whatever condition they all have.

I absolutely agree. The Russian doctors who feed this garbage to kids should be thrown out of sport. They were giving this crap to as vitamins claiming this stuff will protect their hearts from failing. This will make Russian sport better at the end, however this does not change the fact that banning this snake oil could be politically motivated since there is no proof it enhances anything.

 

[PredsV82]

I'm going to ask the one doctor I know on this site to chime in.

not really my specialty but a quick google search says it basically inhibits an oxygen consuming process so it seems like it would leave more oxygen available for muscle activity. Which is greatif youre heart or brain is starving for oxygen. To a very fit athlete I suppose it would inhibit fatigue/cramping/etc.

I get amused when athletes use medicines designed for sick people because they think it gives them an edge.

Once saw a stat that over 98% of professional cyclists were diagnooseed asthmatics, which of course is proposterous, but apparently they all get some quack somewhere to attest to their asthma so they can legally use bronchodilating medicine, thinking it gives them more air(and it really wouldnt, and it increases heart rate so its probably a wash at best)

 

[Vaeltaja]

Ok, fair enough. That was my whole point that over the counter in US l-carnitine is not on WADA list and over the counter in Russia meldonium is on the list.

L-Carnitine can not be banned. It exists naturally. And it is crucial for our metabolism. Meldonium does not exist naturally nor is it in any way crucial. The way i see it either the whole Russian team has heart condition - in which case they shouldn't be competing in the first place - or then they have intentionally tried to enhance their performance by using substances that have been banned - in which case they shouldn't be competing either.

And claiming that WADA didn't warn is just hogwash as well - information that it was to be banned was giving well beforehand (january in 2015).

Reading this helps to understand why it is banned - http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1788/full

 

[Namejs]

Your ischemic disease cure is embarassing enough. you have no idea what you are talking about. Stop accusing me.

I'm not the one who said that Carnitine and a Carnitine inhibitor are the same thing, pal.

 

[Siberian]

L-Carnitine can not be banned. It exists naturally. And it is crucial for our metabolism. Meldonium does not exist naturally nor is it in any way crucial. The way i see it either the whole Russian team has heart condition - in which case they shouldn't be competing in the first place - or then they have intentionally tried to enhance their performance by using substances that have been banned - in which case they shouldn't be competing either.

And claiming that WADA didn't warn is just hogwash as well - information that it was to be banned was giving well beforehand (january in 2015).

Reading this helps to understand why it is banned - http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1788/full

Thanks for the link, great line right here dated by 2015, I wonder what changed so quickly for WADA

To date, substances such as Mildronate (Meldonium) are not on the radar of anti-doping laboratories as the compound is not explicitly classified as prohibited.

So WADA very quickly made this drug that for many years was not considered illegal nor classified as prohibited into an illegal WADA drug. Another proof that something is very shady. WADA knows so little about the drug that they have no idea how much time it takes for this drug to stay in the system. They definitely rushed into this, sounds like a politically motivated decision for sure.

 

[Vaeltaja]

Thanks for the link, great line right here dated by 2015, I wonder what changed so quickly for WADA To date, substances such as Mildronate (Meldonium) are not on the radar of anti-doping laboratories as the compound is not explicitly classified as prohibited.

Ban only started on 1 Jan 2016 - and like you pointed out, article came out in 2015 - so there is nothing strange with that statement.

 

[Siberian]

Ban only started on 1 Jan 2016 - and like you pointed out, article came out in 2015 - so there is nothing strange with that statement.

Exactly, April of 2015 it was a completely legal drug, wasn't even on radar as a doping.

 

[tade]

Terrible news. It's even more alarming that it happened on this level, they are still just kids...

 

[Jussi]

No, I've been a staunch anti-WADA advocate ever since the Dick Pound days. They're no better than FIFA or the IOC. It's all about power and perception, not truly cleaning sports. An institution that has no appeals process and doesn't have to back-up its decisions with facts or proof in any way has no right to make decisions that govern and alter the lives of millions of people. In the past they've gone out of their way to shame, vilify and suspend athletes who've inadvertently taken something with minuscule traces of some prohibited substance (to treat medical issues) and placed them right along side long-time legitimate dopers, which is simply reprehensible.

I'm sorry but your post is so full of misinformation that I almost did a spit take.

WADA doesn't insitute bans. They handle the tests and it's up to the governing bodies of each sport to hand out bans.

 

[Siberian]

So from April 1 to Jan 1 it is only 9 months when WADA quickly and in a very shady way made a fully legal 30 yo drug into a prohibited doping. Sounds like a very unexplained case of a corruption. Typically it takes years for this process.

 

[ValeriKamensky]

It is natural result of mess what occurs when Mutko is sports minister and Tretjyak is president of Russian Hockey`s Federation.
VADA banned Meldonium 1st January 2016, but informed about this in August 2015. Now is April, it`s 7 month. During this time Meldonium left tracks in blood only, or soft combinations.
What does it mean? It means they gave Meldonium for guys after August. I`m sure, even after 1st January.
Sure, Coach Prokhorov knews it. Because if you coach and your players live toghether in training camp all year(juniors, not professionals) and you don`t know what drugs they take, what food they eat, you aren`t coach. You are fool x 5.

But it`s Prokhorov and you never know. Last year he called Sergachyov, Abramov and Sokolov "not a patriots" and refused take them in team, because they starts to play in CHL. In the middle of season he said CHL>MHL and it`s give players more and in the end Sergachyuv and Minulin was invited(its very good).

It`s just one example but he`s not permanent and very very strange person.

Just sorry for guys....

 

[ellja3]

So from April 1 to Jan 1 it is only 9 months when WADA quickly and in a very shady way made a fully legal 30 yo drug into a prohibited doping. Sounds like a very unexplained case of a corruption. Typically it takes years for this process.

Announcement that it is going to be in doping list from Jan1 was issued in August (recall it precisely as it was right before our season). So April - August is 4 months (!!!). Allegedly started when they realized majority of Baku Games medalists had used it*. After that, all they did was gather info that would justify classifying this as doping.

*Interesting part that there was actually study and survey covering specifically the Baku Games (European Games) participants. Naturally, lots of athletes there are from Eastern Europe, which is also the region where meldonium is most widespread. Out of all international tournaments there is no better choice to make if aim is to find huge prevalence of meldonium usage, then claim - yea but you know, look at this, all the winners used this bad, bad drug, it must be giving unfair advantage, and it is so over-abused. They just basically knew where to look.

 

[Siberian]

Announcement that it is going to be in doping list from Jan1 was issued in August (recall it precisely as it was right before our season). So April - August is 4 months (!!!). Allegedly started when they realized majority of Baku Games medalists had used it. After that, all they did was gather info that would justify classifying this as doping.

Even worse, how can this process take only 4 months? WADA may be an organization that needs to be cleaned from potentially corrupt bureaucrats.

 

[Jussi]

Even worse, how can this process take only 4 months? WADA may be an organization that needs to be cleaned from potentially corrupt bureaucrats.

 

[Vaeltaja]

So from April 1 to Jan 1 it is only 9 months when WADA quickly and in a very shady way made a fully legal 30 yo drug into a prohibited doping. Sounds like a very unexplained case of a corruption. Typically it takes years for this process.

You got the timing all wrong. Even in the article it was mentioned that meldonium was placed to watchlist in January 2015 (a year before the ban came into effect). Which means WADA has been aware of it for a much longer time.

 

[ellja3]

You got the timing all wrong. Even in the article it was mentioned that meldonium was placed to watchlist in January 2015 (a year before the ban came into effect). Which means WADA has been aware of it for a much longer time.

Yea, I think ''study'' of Baku Games was no coincidence.

Also

as the compound is not explicitly classified as prohibited.

 

[Siberian]

I don't think anyone really knows how long meldonium stays or can be detected in a persons body after last use since it doesn't appear there was an actual study by WADA or by anybody else. Since we know that at least of Apr 1, 2015 the drug was completely legal and by Aug 1 WADA knew they would make it illegal for Jan 1 2016, that means they did not really have enough time to conduct clinical study on this. Who know, people may be testing positive in a year from now.

 

[Hanji]

Imo, this best explains the situation:

Despite WADA’s black-and-white stance on this, the controversy over Meldonium is more of a culture clash. It’s fairly low-level as far as banned substances go—it’s sold over-the-counter in Russia and some Eastern European countries as a heart medication, and athletes and trainers believe it helps with endurance. A New York Times article on the rash of positive tests explains how Russians are baffled that WADA would consider it cheating.

Until the fall, Russian teams had used the drug regularly and openly, viewing it as a remedy for fending off exhaustion and heart problems. Most team coaches would keep a supply, administering it along with other standard vitamins.

“I’ve been working for 20 years; we could never imagine that it would be included as a doping substance,†said Sergei Sheremetiev, a physician with Russia’s ski-jumping team.
So it’s not so simple as Russian athletes wantonly using banned performance-enhancing drugs. (Though it is exactly that.) It’s Russian sports being asked to completely change their longtime training regimens in service of a new rule they see as arbitrary and morally indefensible, and specifically targeting them. And if that means they have to send a bunch of 16-year-olds to a tournament full of 17-year-olds to avoid having their results thrown out by failed in-competition tests, so be it.

http://deadspin.com/reports-entire-russian-u18-hockey-team-replaced-before-1769366600

 

[paulhiggins]

Look for the replacement team to do something stupid at the tournament to deflect attention from the doping, especially if they start losing badly and would rather get kicked out than embarassed. A bench clearing brawl with the Gold Medal favorite?