Entire Russian U-18 team replaced due to positive drug tests

[Namejs]

I really don't care that WADA included this drug in their list and never did FDA approved L-Carnitine, which is very similar to Meldonium.

How is it similar to L-Carnitine? It's a Carnitine inhibitor. It decreases Carnitine levels.

 

[Siberian]

The WADA is simply continuing with its decades old powertrip and banning anything and everything under the sun to make them seem like the protectors of clean sport. There is zero reason for meldonium/mildronate to be banned. It's been used heavily in nearly all sports for decades and has saved countless lives in that time by preventing over-exertion. There isn't a single study that points to it having any performance enhancing capabilities at all. That being said, it's been on the banned list for four months, and as such, the Russian Hockey Federation had ample time to ensure that its players were no longer using it. You have to obey the rules, even if they're baseless and stupid.

I agree. However, WADA did it in a sneaky and a shady way and that is why it is a problem. It seems like meldonium can be tested many months after its last use and there was no pardon period and that is why in Russia they feel it is another round of political wars by implemented by Western run organization. To make things right they should have allowed a certain time for people to clear of a drug which was fully legal as of Dec 31, 2015. In any case, no big deal, it will be fun to watch U-17 team against U-18 teams.

 

[Siberian]

How is it similar to L-Carnitine? It's a Carnitine inhibitor. It decreases Carnitine levels.

I can't argue with your scientific literacy anymore. You should load with over the counter Latvian made meldonium and become a billionaire by curing ischemic desease in the States.

 

[ellja3]

How is it similar to L-Carnitine? It's a Carnitine inhibitor. It decreases Carnitine levels.

Exactly, it decreases carnitine level. As far as I remember, meldonium leads to body using glucose to get energy, carnitine - to use fat to gain energy (thus some ppl simply use it as fat burner) [but don't quote me on this, read it in an article].

I am playing in top3 Latvian floorball (sorta hockey w/o ice) team and as soon as we found out it is going to be banned (August 2015), doctor stopped giving us meldonium (of course, used non-banned substitute that serves the same purpose ). The question, tho, as many mentioned, is - how long does it take for it to leave body. Some say 1 month is enough, some say it's year - regardless of "weeell, it depends on body" claim, it is still a huge interval

 

[ellja3]

I can't argue with your scientific literacy anymore. You should load with over the counter Latvian made meldonium and become a billionaire by curing ischemic desease in the States.

You just claimed meldonium is very similar to carnitine, which is flat out wrong and when Namejs pointed it out, you just started exaggerating and going off-topic. I agree that both carnitine and meldonium can be used to gain same purpose (long-term endurance) but how it does it, and additional effects - those are really different. Carnitine, if over-abused, can harm your heart very badly. Meldonium, on the other hand, preserves it. How is it similar?

 

[Siberian]

You just claimed meldonium is very similar to carnitine, which is flat out wrong and when Namejs pointed it out, you just started exaggerating and going off-topic. I agree that both carnitine and meldonium can be used to gain same purpose (long-term endurance) but how it does it, and additional effects - those are really different. Carnitine, if over-abused, can harm your heart very badly. Meldonium, on the other hand, preserves it. How is it similar?

They both are designed to do the same thing - improve endothelial function (allegedly). Are you another scientific specialist in this thread?

 

[kabidjan18]

You just claimed meldonium is very similar to carnitine, which is flat out wrong and when Namejs pointed it out, you just started exaggerating and going off-topic. I agree that both carnitine and meldonium can be used to gain same purpose (long-term endurance) but how it does it, and additional effects - those are really different. Carnitine, if over-abused, can harm your heart very badly. Meldonium, on the other hand, preserves it. How is it similar?

That's why the answer to life is just take hgh

 

[Siberian]

That's why the answer to life is just take hgh

Yes, meldonium cures ischemic disease and I have a bridge to sell.

 

[ellja3]

They both are designed to do the same thing - improve endothelial function (allegedly). Are you another scientific specialist in this thread?

Personally I am not, but several of my colleagues of Medical Nutrition department are extremely well educated in pharmaceutical field. Since I was given both carnitine and meldonium for many years during sports season (and not in small quantities), naturally after meldonium doping outrage, I asked them billion of question about these substances (about carnitine because of ''why is meldonium banned but carnitine not'').

As I said, you can claim that one of the goals is the same. However, meldonium, as I have said repeatedly in this thread and others, preserves heart in cases of huge workload. Carnitine may harm it. My colleagues, frankly speaking, said that carnitine should be the banned one because they've experienced many cases when over-abuse of it has lead to serious heart problems. One can argue, on the other hand that NOT using meldonium has done opposite - lead to heart problems after huge workloads*. THIS is main reason why I am and will continue to disagree that meldonium and carnitine are the same.

* everyone in pro-sports uses substances to improve work capacity so don't even start to use this sentence against me with ''but it is doping, so bad for you!'' - difference is which are banned and which are not - and that's politics and bureaucracy and another problem I have w fact that meldonium us banned

 

[kabidjan18]

Yes, meldonium cures ischemic disease and I have a bridge to sell.

Lol, idk where you're going with that. I'm just saying, if you're gonna dope then hgh is where it's at.

 

[Proust*]

The WADA is simply continuing with its decades old powertrip and banning anything and everything under the sun to make them seem like the protectors of clean sport. There is zero reason for meldonium/mildronate to be banned. It's been used heavily in nearly all sports for decades and has saved countless lives in that time by preventing over-exertion. There isn't a single study that points to it having any performance enhancing capabilities at all. That being said, it's been on the banned list for four months, and as such, the Russian Hockey Federation had ample time to ensure that its players were no longer using it. You have to obey the rules, even if they're baseless and stupid.

The fact that the WADA doesn't have to prove a drug's enhancing abilities before banning it, and the fact that its decisions cannot be challenged by athletes is simply shocking and greatly disturbing. How is that democratic, ethical or even legal? It should be disbanded, with a reputable, fact-based institution put in its place.

I wonder if your opinion has anything to do with you being all about everything Latvian, and this drug being Latvian.

Hmmmm....

 

[Jussi]

I'm going to ask the one doctor I know on this site to chime in.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

 

[Siberian]

Personally I am not, but several of my colleagues of Medical Nutrition department are extremely well educated in pharmaceutical field. Since I was given both carnitine and meldonium for many years during sports season (and not in small quantities), naturally after meldonium doping outrage, I asked them billion of question about these substances (about carnitine because of ''why is meldonium banned but carnitine not'').

As I said, you can claim that one of the goals is the same. However, meldonium, as I have said repeatedly in this thread and others, preserves heart in cases of huge workload. Carnitine may harm it. My colleagues, frankly speaking, said that carnitine should be the banned one because they've experienced many cases when over-abuse of it has lead to serious heart problems. One can argue, on the other hand that NOT using meldonium has lead to heart problems. THIS is main reason why I am and will continue to disagree that meldonium and carnitine are the same.

Ok, fair enough. That was my whole point that over the counter in US l-carnitine is not on WADA list and over the counter in Russia meldonium is on the list.

 

[Namejs]

I can't argue with your scientific literacy anymore. You should load with over the counter Latvian made meldonium and become a billionaire by curing ischemic desease in the States.

It's funny you should say that, because the demand now is huge in the US, and the owner of the company producing it is close to being a billionaire.

 

[KarIgo87]

Well, nobody uses meldonium in NA so I guess it's just a precaution measure.

 

[ellja3]

Ok, fair enough. That was my whole point that over the counter in US l-carnitine is not on WADA list and over the counter in Russia meldonium is on the list.

Yes, and that is exactly the reason why conspiracy theories are flying around - that this is just big way to screw over Russians. Because you are right in the sense that in terms of providing long-term endurance (this very aspect), both carnitine and meldonium works and in this field one is like the other.

 

[Lennu32]

He probably is. Same in Sweden, with drugs we mean and think of narcotics, not medicine. Sounds funny with the drugstores the got in the US!

Same here in Finland, we have different words for medicine and drugs (narcotics). Of course many medicines can be used as drugs.

 

[Namejs]

They both are designed to do the same thing - improve endothelial function (allegedly). Are you another scientific specialist in this thread?

Hold your horses now. You said L-carnitine and Meldonium are very similar. They're not very similar, they're the exact opposite of each other. They do have a similar effect, which is not what you said at all.

 

[Siberian]

It's funny you should say that, because the demand now is huge in the US, and the owner of the company producing it is close to being a billionaire.

So, homeopathy is a multi billion dollar business as well but it is all based on placebo effect. What I am saying if meldonium was a cure for ischemic disease as you claimed earlier it would have been long ago approved by FDA making billions.

 

[kabidjan18]

Well, nobody uses meldonium in NA so I guess it's just a precaution measure.

They should test the Canadians for codeine and the Americans for advil.

 

[ellja3]

It's funny you should say that, because the demand now is huge in the US, and the owner of the company producing it is close to being a billionaire.

Yea, I read that it costs up to $150 per package in black market. In Latvian drug store you can get it for approx 12-14EUR

 

[KarIgo87]

It's funny you should say that, because the demand now is huge in the US, and the owner of the company producing it is close to being a billionaire.

So all of this is just a huge advertising campaign for meldonium? What's WADA's interest?

 

[Urbanskog]

Will sure be interesting to see what will the Russian roster look like and how will they perform.

 

[Siberian]

Hold your horses now. You said L-carnitine and Meldonium are very similar. They're not very similar, they're the exact opposite of each other. They do have a similar effect, which is not what you said at all.

Please enough. I think this is ridiculous.