End of Season Pressers (Monday May 15)

[myleafs]

Are facts now offensive? They outplayed Florida for the majority of the series.

A couple of those posts going in would have been huge.

I am pretty sure at least Matthews said they have to bury their chances and they got looks.

Bobrovsky was Florida's first star, are the players supposed to pretend like he was terrible?

Our fanbase and media are hilarious sometimes, they want the players to lie to make them feel better.

could have should have only if should be the leafs new tagline

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don’t want to use the Florida success story as some beautiful recipe, but if you look at the side by side comparison of picks out between the Leafs and Panthers over the past few years, Florida was largely able to turn 1st and 2nd round picks and turn them into medium term roster players like Bennett, Montour and Reinhart and I think a pick went out for Tkachuk. The problem with the Leafs cap situation is they can trade out a first but usually it’s only as a rental. And the guy we did keep was Gio. Who isn’t moving the needle. Other picks have gone out for cap massaging.

And I'd also point to Carolina as an example of how you can have a ton of success without trading for rentals. Also, they only have one player making more than 6 million, and he makes less than 9. Something to ponder for those who say "you just don't trade talent like (insert whoever here)".

I said it a while back, I could make a good case for a policy that involves almost never trading picks. Of course I got yelled at - gotta give your team a chance to win, what kind of message does it send when you don't improve your team at the deadline blah blah blah.

Now that all the Canadian teams are out, I'm rooting for Carolina, just because they do things the way I think they should be done. Go Canes!

 

[Stephen]

I have repeated this same thing over the last few months Dubas can walk if he wants. If MLSE would like more time before making a decision on him they'll tell him he has until June 30th to sign his contract that is being offered and until he has signed MP/JS will run the draft and contract negotiations.

I don’t know if he realizes what kind of awkward next stage he’s setting up for himself here.

He can win the contract, get more power and stay on as the Leafs GM but the Leafs cap situation and Big 4 situation implies a step back season in 2024 and 2025 until Tavares is gone.

I don’t know how the pressure and demands of the job will change and what kind of toll that will have on his personal life.

If he can’t keep a cool calm face of the organization In that job and present a united front, all I see are fracture points.

The way he’s set it up for himself at that presser, the exit makes more sense than staying on.

 

[myleafs]

Here's the only fact that matters - they lost. This is a results-orientated business, for a team with very high expectations they set upon themselves. They failed. Again.


They were super lucky in round 1 against Tampa, and when that luck ran out in round 2, they had nothing else left. Again.


Spoiler alert: goalies are apart of a hockey team. They are allowed to make big saves. Their offense started drying up in the Tampa series, long before the Florida series was done and dusted.


No one's asking them to lie. We are asking them to occasionally show some accountability. In 2020, famous soccer coach Jose Mourinho, a perennial winner all over Europe, took over English side Tottenham Hotspur (basically the Leafs of the EPL).

There's a famous clip from the Amazon Documentary from that season, where Jose walks into a team meeting, addresses his players, and proceeds to tell them that they are "too nice". He says they need to be "c*nts". "Bastards" Not stupid bastards, but intelligent bastards, because they don't hate losing enough to ever succeed.

This Leafs team is too comfortable. They don't hate losing. And yes, seeing an occasional Draisailt or MacKinnon pissy session would make a lot of fans feel better, absolutely. It would, at the very least, be confirmation that they aren't here for individual legacy & financial objectives exclusively, but actually care about winning - something that their contracts indicated wasn't the case.

Well said on all points

 

[Stephen]

And I'd also point to Carolina as an example of how you can have a ton of success without trading for rentals. Also, they only have one player making more than 6 million, and he makes less than 9. Something to ponder for those who say "you just don't trade talent like (insert whoever here)".

I said it a while back, I could make a good case for a policy that involves almost never trading picks. Of course I got yelled at - gotta give your team a chance to win, what kind of message does it send when you don't improve your team at the deadline blah blah blah.

Now that all the Canadian teams are out, I'm rooting for Carolina, just because they do things the way I think they should be done. Go Canes!

We started down this bad road of dealing 2nd round picks like candy as early as Brian Boyle and Tomas Plekanec. Completely premature then. And now our best prospect is a second rounder in Knies.

 

[ITM]

Kyle mentioning family concerns is legit, as it would be for anybody in a high profile public eye, so he's not lying. However, it's not the reason, it's smoke. The real reason is the tug-of-war over whether Keefe gets fired or not. Kyle wants him to stay, MLSE says out. This is what the balking by both sides is about.

Just my take. Makes the most sense.

I agree that the tension Dubas is considering most is that which is ahead of him rather than the aggregate of another season. I think its personnel related.

 

[Stephen]

Kyle mentioning family concerns is legit, as it would be for anybody in a high profile public eye, so he's not lying. However, it's not the reason, it's smoke. The real reason is the tug-of-war over whether Keefe gets fired or not. Kyle wants him to stay, MLSE says out. This is what the balking by both sides is about.

Just my take. Makes the most sense.

That’s not a bad take actually. In some ways this could be about his professional partner.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Kyle mentioning family concerns is legit, as it would be for anybody in a high profile public eye, so he's not lying. However, it's not the reason, it's smoke. The real reason is the tug-of-war over whether Keefe gets fired or not. Kyle wants him to stay, MLSE says out. This is what the balking by both sides is about.

Just my take. Makes the most sense.

If that's true, they should in no way consider bringing him back
He has to have his buddy with him!? Please!

 

[Stephen]

I agree that the tension Dubas is considering most is that which is ahead of him rather than the aggregate of another season. I think its personnel related.

I wonder which of the Big 4 might have earned Dubas’ wrath. I can sympathize with him feeling let down by that group after all the hype up and votes of confidence over the years despite repeat face plants.

I don’t really agree with him though if he doesn’t think Keefe is also a non solution.

 

[Tak7]

Why do you care if someone took responsibility for sucking? They still sucked, I'm more upset that the players couldn't produce when they needed to than them telling me they couldn't.

Of course results are the most important thing - but when you consistently fail to do that, and you end up at a crossroads as to whether you win with this group or not, you look at everything.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I don't think this group hates losing enough to ever actually win. They're too comfortable. Part of the reason four forwards are paid $40m, is to ensure you don't get goalie'd, yet they were far too happy to use that an excuse.

Every year, they try and acquire the same types of players at the deadline - guys with drive & determination, that are comfortable with the long, grueling battles of the post-season. You only do that because you're trying to compensate for what this core lacks. If you're constantly seeking something, it's because you don't have it. These guys don't have that drive.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Of course results are the most important thing - but when you consistently fail to do that, and you end up at a crossroads as to whether you win with this group or not, you look at everything.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I don't think this group hates losing enough to ever actually win. They're too comfortable. Part of the reason four forwards are paid $40m, is to ensure you don't get goalie'd, yet they were far too happy to use that an excuse.

Every year, they try and acquire the same types of players at the deadline - guys with drive & determination, that are comfortable with the long, grueling battles of the post-season. You only do that because you're trying to compensate for what this core lacks. If you're constantly seeking something, it's because you don't have it. These guys don't have that drive.

And they've been given everything they wanted, including money and Dubas's undying loyalty and belief in them. You'd think they'd want to go through a wall for him. Not in their DNA I guess

 

[29Potvin]

I don’t know if he realizes what kind of awkward next stage he’s setting up for himself here.

He can win the contract, get more power and stay on as the Leafs GM but the Leafs cap situation and Big 4 situation implies a step back season in 2024 and 2025 until Tavares is gone.

I don’t know how the pressure and demands of the job will change and what kind of toll that will have on his personal life.

If he can’t keep a cool calm face of the organization In that job and present a united front, all I see are fracture points.

The way he’s set it up for himself at that presser, the exit makes more sense than staying on.

It's crazy how everyone says the core 4 have KD over a barrel but it seems that MLSE that are leading the way. Let KD make the deals he did without an extention and know seem to have given him and the players the power to start the off-season.
As much as we like to blame KD it's clear MLSE have no direction

 

[Stephen]

It's crazy how everyone says the core 4 have KD over a barrel but it seems that MLSE that are leading the way. Let KD make the deals he did without an extention and know seem to have given him and the players the power to start the off-season.
As much as we like to blame KD it's clear MLSE have no direction

Seems like a lot of “palace intrigue” as opposed to a unified front office with a clean, professional outward projection and easy to understand organizational goals and values.

A lot of hot shots at every level who love being Maple Leafs but everyone’s got a different agenda.

 

[613Leafer]

Of course results are the most important thing - but when you consistently fail to do that, and you end up at a crossroads as to whether you win with this group or not, you look at everything.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I don't think this group hates losing enough to ever actually win. They're too comfortable. Part of the reason four forwards are paid $40m, is to ensure you don't get goalie'd, yet they were far too happy to use that an excuse.

Every year, they try and acquire the same types of players at the deadline - guys with drive & determination, that are comfortable with the long, grueling battles of the post-season. You only do that because you're trying to compensate for what this core lacks. If you're constantly seeking something, it's because you don't have it. These guys don't have that drive.

MacKinnon at the end of the 2021 season was super fired up, said "I haven't won ****" in his end of season presser. Just seems to HATE losing like you said, and it shows in his playoff stats (100 points in 77 games). He also went on to win the Cup the next year.

Watch something like The Last Dance documentary on the 90s Chicago Bulls, and you see that true desire to win from Michael Jordan.

Morgan Rielly was the only guy from the core who actually took some legit ownership for the loss and seemed fired up, and also happens to be the one with the best reputation for post season performance. It's not an exact science, but these things seem to be correlated (ie being pissed off and/or taking ownership for the loss being correlated with playing well in the playoffs, vs the "aw shucks, we played well but we got some bad bounces" approach of our other stars).

 

[horner]

It's crazy how everyone says the core 4 have KD over a barrel but it seems that MLSE that are leading the way. Let KD make the deals he did without an extention and know seem to have given him and the players the power to start the off-season.
As much as we like to blame KD it's clear MLSE have no direction

If things are this f***ed they should hire someone to oversea everything.

Has anyone seen or heard from shanny

 

[notDatsyuk]

So we have all this speculation that they made him an offer and he needs to talk to his wife tonight sounds like BS.
If they waited until the morning of the presser to make an offer, that makes no sense at all. As far as talking it over with his wife, come on, if he hasn’t had multiple conversations with his wife about all different scenarios already.
These are all things that would be handled long before this presser or after.
He was playing the sympathy card nothing else

It sounds to me much more like he is just preparing his reason for not returning.

I wouldn't be surprised if management has already decided to not bring him back, and he has been given the opportunity to create his own narrative.

"I'm taking a year off for family reasons" rather than "they don't want me any more".

 

[Apex Predator]

The longer this takes without an announcement the more we might be looking at a new GM.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I am still trying to wrap my head around the "division" between Shanny and Dubas. It really seems like a concocted story for media narratives.

Shanny handpicked Dubas. Shanny let Lou, Hunter and Babcock go.

It should be both Shanny and Dubas that gotta go. I have a hard time believing in this "division" story because if I was on the MLSE board and Shanny comes to me and says "don't extend Dubas because reasons..."; I'd say but you are the one who backed him; it is because of you I am paying Babcock 25 million dollars to sit at home.

I'd can Shanny before I canned Dubas LOL

Yes, but only by five minutes.

 

[Stephen]

I am still trying to wrap my head around the "division" between Shanny and Dubas. It really seems like a concocted story for media narratives.

Shanny handpicked Dubas. Shanny let Lou, Hunter and Babcock go.

It should be both Shanny and Dubas that gotta go. I have a hard time believing in this "division" story because if I was on the MLSE board and Shanny comes to me and says "don't extend Dubas because reasons..."; I'd say but you are the one who backed him; it is because of you I am paying Babcock 25 million dollars to sit at home.

I'd can Shanny before I canned Dubas LOL

Or it’s possible Dubas doesn’t play well with peers and has to be firmly in control. We have no idea but there’s certainly some kind of friction from somewhere.

 

[Stephen]

The longer this takes without an announcement the more we might be looking at a new GM.

A new GM might not be preferable due to time lines but maybe the most logical outcome based on what we learned on Monday. You’re kind of halfway down a tearful breakup conversation at this point.

“I don’t want to see other people, I just need space.”

 

[Apex Predator]

A new GM might not be preferable due to time lines but maybe the most logical outcome based on what we learned on Monday. You’re kind of halfway down a tearful breakup conversation at this point.

“I don’t want to see other people, I just need space.”

The timeline is tight so leafs can’t be losing days for a decision to be made. At some point MLSE needs to give Dubas a drop dead date and move on with looking at other options.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Look at the transactional history of some of the available GMs.

Dubas has some fundamental flaws that drive me nuts and he may never overcome, but for the most part he is a middle of the pack, net neutral GM. He usually breaks even on trade and UFA.

I think many people forget what a truly inept GM can do to a franchise. Dubas will waste years by treading water but he won’t derail a franchise with outright awful asset management like a significant number of others will/have done. Might be time to roll the dice soon though.

He did exactly that, but admittedly several years ago. Maybe he's learned.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Look at the transactional history of some of the available GMs.

Dubas has some fundamental flaws that drive me nuts and he may never overcome, but for the most part he is a middle of the pack, net neutral GM. He usually breaks even on trade and UFA.

I think many people forget what a truly inept GM can do to a franchise. Dubas will waste years by treading water but he won’t derail a franchise with outright awful asset management like a significant number of others will/have done. Might be time to roll the dice soon though.

His biggest mistake was absolutely refusing to entertain changing up.the core. Too loyal
That and bringing guys like Petan, Vesey, Malgin in thinking it was some kind of solution. Same could be said for Thornton, Simmonds , Ritchie , Foligno

 

[ITM]

I wonder which of the Big 4 might have earned Dubas’ wrath. I can sympathize with him feeling let down by that group after all the hype up and votes of confidence over the years despite repeat face plants.

I don’t really agree with him though if he doesn’t think Keefe is also a non solution.

I think Tavares. Rock and a hard place now. Perhaps Marner.

I love Mike Futa’s recent suggestion of swapping Doughty’s contract with Tavares’.

 

[francis246]

I think Tavares. Rock and a hard place now. Perhaps Marner.

I love Mike Futa’s recent suggestion of swapping Doughty’s contract with Tavares’.

You need two people to agree to that. Doughty has notoriously said he would never play for the Leafs. Tavares I’m sure could be convinced to go to LA.