End of Season Pressers (Monday May 15)

[ACC1224]

Does his contract as GM end July 1? If so, that could be a problem.

If they leave him in charge, he is the one who has to negotiate with Matty and Willy, plus possibly extent Keefe, none of which I'm thrilled with. If he has another offer, what are the chances he pulls a Lou, who didn't re-sign Komarov, but grabbed him for NYI?

If they are going to let him go, I'd prefer they fire him and get a replacement before July 1.

It will all be decided well before July 1.

 

[WillNy29]

I'd say last year vs Tampa was even. IMO the win over Tampa this year masked the fact that this team is no different than it has been since Dubas took over. The loss to Florida pretty much backs that up.

so always making excuses for the opposition. its no better than making excuses for the leafs.

for what its worth the leafs actually outplayed Tampa in Games 2,4 and 6. It revisionist history to say they didn't

Game 2 they won 7-2
Game 4 they were by far the better team from the second period on wards
Game 5 was fairly even with the leafs carrying the play for longer stretches.

The stats prove that out and so do the results of those games. Tampa shouldn't have let the leafs hang around for Game 3 you'd think a Stanley cup champion would know that.

In the same vein as your argument Toronto outplayed Florida in every game except game 3 and even in that game had the lead for a while, so we should crap on Florida too for winning a series while being outplayed and with the leafs missing a key forward.

 

[Warden of the North]

Does his contract as GM end July 1? If so, that could be a problem.

If they leave him in charge, he is the one who has to negotiate with Matty and Willy, plus possibly extent Keefe, none of which I'm thrilled with. If he has another offer, what are the chances he pulls a Lou, who didn't re-sign Komarov, but grabbed him for NYI?

If they are going to let him go, I'd prefer they fire him and get a replacement before July 1.

What a disaster
Shanny should have to answer for this

This is going to be resolved within a week.

 

[rocketman588]

Kyle mentioning family concerns is legit, as it would be for anybody in a high profile public eye, so he's not lying. However, it's not the reason, it's smoke. The real reason is the tug-of-war over whether Keefe gets fired or not. Kyle wants him to stay, MLSE says out. This is what the balking by both sides is about.

Just my take. Makes the most sense.

If he's fighting to keep Keefe they should have already canned him imo

 

[stickty111]

Dave Feschuk: Under Kyle Dubas, the Maple Leafs have been a failed experiment. It’s time for an overhaul

If this Leafs team is ever going to be successful it needs somebody in charge who loves winning games more than making friends.

www.thestar.com

OK, so he’s almost getting there. Take out the “perhaps.” Swap the “slightly” for “significantly.” And maybe Kyle Dubas would be closer to sniffing the faintest hint of the Stanley Cup’s scent.

Make of that what you will. If time is money, the folks who employ Dubas, whose contract expires July 1, will need to acknowledge the considerable tab that’s been run up in allowing Dubas to self-indulgently tinker with his precious vision while the post-season losses have piled up. It’s certainly not comforting that the inherent flaws in his roster — obvious to many years ago — are only now being seen by Dubas as potential trouble spots.

Not that anybody can claim to understand the organizational standards currently in place at Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment. It’s been most of 15 months since Michael Friisdahl stepped down as CEO, at which point the conglomerate that owns the Leafs announced they were launching a global search for Friisdahl’s replacement. Fast forward to today and the search, by the estimation of multiple longtime observers, appears to have been abandoned. It’s still interim CEO Cynthia Devine at the helm. And given Devine’s background as the former chief financial officer — someone more concerned with the company’s always-healthy balance sheet than the Leafs’ often-troubling playoff scoresheet — it wouldn’t be unfair to wonder if there’s anyone in possession of actual power who’s perturbed enough by the team’s perennial underachievement to demand better.

What we do know is this: In the coming days Brendan Shanahan, coolly surviving in year nine of an 11-year guarantee as team president, will explain the Leafs’ predicament before the board of directors, as he always does at the end of a season. And where things go from there will be anyone’s guess. Sacrificing the coach — attached to a promise to, say, test the market for Mitch Marner — seems the easy play.

But if you’re a Leafs fan, you can only hope somebody in the meeting raises a concern about the country-club atmosphere that continues to pervade Toronto’s dressing room. In five years on the job, Dubas has been lauded for creating an inclusive organizational culture in which no expense is spared to make club employees feel included and valued and empowered. Dubas clearly loves his players, especially the highest paid ones. Even in the face of alarming playoff underperformances against the likes of Columbus and Montreal and now Florida, he has repeatedly professed his annual belief that they’ll eventually deliver on their potential.

So it was only predictable on Monday, knowing their GM isn’t guaranteed a tomorrow, the most important players in Toronto’s dressing room professed their undying appreciation for Dubas.

And why wouldn’t they? Dubas has a) given most of them every dollar they’ve asked for; b) proven himself to be a weak negotiator against their respective agents; and c) done nothing but profess blind belief in their abilities.

Which speaks to the state of things. In Dubas’s Leafland, everybody loves everybody.

If the Leafs are ever going to be successful they need somebody in charge who loves winning games more than making friends. Certainly they need players who care more about winning games than making every last morsel of money. Because you know the troubled history here. Toronto’s Core Four ran roughshod over a neophyte Dubas in previous contract negotiations, demanding a combined 50% of the salary cap in a series of self-serving deals.

A tip for next time. Don't post any Feschuk and Simmonds articles otherwise I like the articles you post

 

[ToneDog]

so always making excuses for the opposition. its no better than making excuses for the leafs.

for what its worth the leafs actually outplayed Tampa in Games 2,4 and 6. It revisionist history to say they didn't

Game 2 they won 7-2
Game 4 they were by far the better team from the second period on wards
Game 5 was fairly even with the leafs carrying the play for longer stretches.

The stats prove that out and so do the results of those games. Tampa shouldn't have let the leafs hang around for Game 3 you'd think a Stanley cup champion would know that.

In the same vein as your argument Toronto outplayed Florida in every game except game 3 and even in that game had the lead for a while, so we should crap on Florida too for winning a series while being outplayed and with the leafs missing a key forward.

Leafs don't need me making excuses for them. They make enough excuses for themselves.

Was game 3 the game they were down 4-1 with 8 minutes to go in the 3rd ? Those comebacks don't happen often.

Tampa were on the brink of elimination in game 5 and won. I give them the edge.

The Tampa team the Leafs beat was a shadow of the SC winning Lightning teams. Good thing is that they will continue to decline and may not even make the playoffs next year.

 

[myleafs]

I have a gut feeling he's stepping down personally. Just feels like it's heading that way. Just the hints and the issues at hand, I don't know. We'll see.

Is it possible that this is a way to let him go which makes it look like its on his own terms rather than being let go. A lot of people are saying things like yea family got to take care of that. Something just doesnt smell right about how this is going down. I dont know just spitballing.

 

[Suntouchable13]

so always making excuses for the opposition. its no better than making excuses for the leafs.

for what its worth the leafs actually outplayed Tampa in Games 2,4 and 6. It revisionist history to say they didn't

Game 2 they won 7-2
Game 4 they were by far the better team from the second period on wards
Game 5 was fairly even with the leafs carrying the play for longer stretches.

The stats prove that out and so do the results of those games. Tampa shouldn't have let the leafs hang around for Game 3 you'd think a Stanley cup champion would know that.

In the same vein as your argument Toronto outplayed Florida in every game except game 3 and even in that game had the lead for a while, so we should crap on Florida too for winning a series while being outplayed and with the leafs missing a key forward.

LOL, Carolina is missing a key forward but they are in the ECF. Stop with the excuse making.

 

[BallardEra]

LOL, Carolina is missing a key forward but they are in the ECF. Stop with the excuse making.

They were missing Svechnikov, Teravainen and Pacioretty.

 

[notbias]

They lost 4 out of 5 games.
Why is it so hard for to just admit they weren't good enough without all "if only" excuses?

saying the goalie outplayed the players is still them not being good enough, how is this so hard to understand? The outplayed the players, the goalie outplayed them.

 

[Suntouchable13]

They were missing Svechnikov, Teravainen and Pacioretty.

Ok, and I don’t see them making excuses. They are in round 3. I love it how Knies is a key forward, while we have 3 forwards making 11 on the cap. Where were they this series? Knies being out has nothing to do with this.

saying the goalie outplayed the players is still them not being good enough, how is this so hard to understand? The outplayed the players, the goalie outplayed them.

Sick of the other goalie outplaying us. Why do we have 4 forwards making 40M? They have to kind of be able to score.

 

[notbias]

It's extremely telling that the veteran with winning experience who isn't associated with this core, is taking accountability while the core isn't.

It's also extremely telling that ROR has spent a few weeks in that dressing room and has decided he isn't coming back.

I'm skipping the rest because it is a waste of time, you're telling me you know the mentality of the players.

ROR chases money. Schenn sounds like he wants to come back, he has more winning experience. Pick who you want to listen to.

Why do you care if someone took responsibility for sucking? They still sucked, I'm more upset that the players couldn't produce when they needed to than them telling me they couldn't.

 

[Ciao]

Dubas is young and has time on his side.

He's practicing game theory to a "t". One key negotiating tactic is to be prepared to walk away rather than accept compromises you aren't prepared to make. He's done that, leaving the Leafs in a difficult position.

If MLSE wants him to stay on board with conditions, the spiel about his family might be a guise to conceal his real position which could be that he's not prepared to accept being told what to do -- whether that's firing the coach or trading players etc. If so, I agree with that position, regardless of whether I would agree with the actual decisions he would make.

The thing is, if he's the decision-maker then he's got to live and die by his own decisions. Failing to do so was the downfall of so many others such as Gord Stellick who likely caved to Ballard and Brophy in trading Courtnall for Kordic, etc. Once you give up decisional authority, you're no longer the manager but just a puppet and you've lost control.

If Dubas doesn't stay on with the Leafs, he will have another chance elsewhere and his day will come. He would be wise to do that on his own terms.

If they go separate ways, then I would have more confidence that Kyle Dubas will win a Stanley Cup before the Toronto Maple Leafs than the other way around.

This could be a replay of Alex Anthopolous and the Toronto Blue Jays. He left the organization rather than be told what to do.

 

[notbias]

Sick of the other goalie outplaying us. Why do we have 4 forwards making 40M? They have to kind of be able to score.

I am fine with roster changes, but the goalie was still the difference maker, and I am fine with the players saying such, I am an adult, they don't need to pretend like they were heavily outplayed to appease people, they can say, they had their chances and they need to bury them because that is what happened.

 

[29Potvin]

Ok, and I don’t see them making excuses. They are in round 3. I love it how Knies is a key forward, while we have 3 forwards making 11 on the cap. Where were they this series? Knies being out has nothing to do with this.



Sick of the other goalie outplaying us. Why do we have 4 forwards making 40M? They have to kind of be able to score.

Because we have a coach that would rather have ROR and JT that do the same things on PP1 and Willy on PP2.
We also run our PP1 via two guys that have muffins of a shot.
Look at all the teams with the best PP in the NHL. They have a Dman that can hammer it and a winger/AM34 on the wing. The Leafs PP dry up in the playoffs because SKs only change is move one of his best players off it for a net front guy.
Using Gus in game five instead of Gio or Holl put the Leafs in a better spot to win.
This off-season should be about AM34 signing and the Leafs getting a top pairing dman that can QB the PP.

 

[notbias]

sounds like us. Basically still talking about learning how to win. Would be ripped apart here.

but you see, it's different because our GM put together a better team.

but also, our GM doesn't know how to put together a good team.

We should fire our GM for someone with more experience who has won multiple cups, just like the GM of the Oilers.

 

[capfit9]

Doug Armstrong

 

[29Potvin]

Dubas is young and has time on his side.

He's practicing game theory to a "t". One key negotiating tactic is to be prepared to walk away rather than accept compromises you aren't prepared to make. He's done that, leaving the Leafs in a difficult position.

If MLSE wants him to stay on board with conditions, the spiel about his family might be a guise to conceal his real position which could be that he's not prepared to accept being told what to do -- whether that's firing the coach or trading players etc. If so, I agree with that position, regardless of whether I would agree with the actual decisions he would make.

The thing is, if he's the decision-maker then he's got to live and die by his own decisions. Failing to do so was the downfall of so many others such as Gord Stellick who likely caved to Ballard and Brophy in trading Courtnall for Kordic, etc. Once you give up decisional authority, you're no longer the manager but just a puppet and you've lost control.

If Dubas doesn't stay on with the Leafs, he will have another chance elsewhere and his day will come. He would be wise to do that on his own terms.

If they go separate ways, then I would have more confidence that Kyle Dubas will win a Stanley Cup before the Toronto Maple Leafs than the other way around.

This could be a replay of Alex Anthopolous and the Toronto Blue Jays. He left the organization rather than be told what to do.

I have repeated this same thing over the last few months Dubas can walk if he wants. If MLSE would like more time before making a decision on him they'll tell him he has until June 30th to sign his contract that is being offered and until he has signed MP/JS will run the draft and contract negotiations.

 

[WillNy29]

Leafs don't need me making excuses for them. They make enough excuses for themselves.

Was game 3 the game they were down 4-1 with 8 minutes to go in the 3rd ? Those comebacks don't happen often.

Tampa were on the brink of elimination in game 5 and won. I give them the edge.

The Tampa team the Leafs beat was a shadow of the SC winning Lightning teams. Good thing is that they will continue to decline and may not even make the playoffs next year.

game 3 was down 2-1 and won 3-2; game 4 was the comeback-->just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean Toronto didn't take the wheels to Tampa in the second and third period of that game meaning they outplayed the lightning

LOL, Carolina is missing a key forward but they are in the ECF. Stop with the excuse making.

the irony of your comment is lost on you with who I am replying too..

 

[Stephen]

If he brings over the Carolina way of doing things, I love it!

I've always said I'm not a fan of rentals, Dubas said so too but he's spent a lot on rentals so those words don't mean much. Carolina though, they don't spend at the TDL, BOS/TB/Leafs did, Carolina despite injury issues is the team still playing, and they have way more draft capital then any of those other teams.

Build slow and steady, love it!

I don’t want to use the Florida success story as some beautiful recipe, but if you look at the side by side comparison of picks out between the Leafs and Panthers over the past few years, Florida was largely able to turn 1st and 2nd round picks and turn them into medium term roster players like Bennett, Montour and Reinhart and I think a pick went out for Tkachuk. The problem with the Leafs cap situation is they can trade out a first but usually it’s only as a rental. And the guy we did keep was Gio. Who isn’t moving the needle. Other picks have gone out for cap massaging.

 

[GoonieFace]

I have repeated this same thing over the last few months Dubas can walk if he wants. If MLSE would like more time before making a decision on him they'll tell him he has until June 30th to sign his contract that is being offered and until he has signed MP/JS will run the draft and contract negotiations.

Let him walk so he can handcuff a different team.

 

[rocketman588]

but you see, it's different because our GM put together a better team.

but also, our GM doesn't know how to put together a good team.

We should fire our GM for someone with more experience who has won multiple cups, just like the GM of the Oilers.

I mean honestly both should be fired.

Especially if Dubas doesn't want to make changes he needs to go. Specifically Keefe

Holland should have been out of town 3 years ago however he got absolutely lucky with the Kane thing and it's still f***ing up

 

[rumman]

Let him walk so he can handcuff a different team.

everybody has a boss they have to answer to, why should Dubas be any different..........

 

[GoonieFace]

everybody has a boss they have to answer to, why should Dubas be any different..........

I can’t believe how dysfunctional this organization is, although I should believe it. They should have cut him loose already, such a bizarre situation

 

[Stephen]

Dubas is young and has time on his side.

He's practicing game theory to a "t". One key negotiating tactic is to be prepared to walk away rather than accept compromises you aren't prepared to make. He's done that, leaving the Leafs in a difficult position.

If MLSE wants him to stay on board with conditions, the spiel about his family might be a guise to conceal his real position which could be that he's not prepared to accept being told what to do -- whether that's firing the coach or trading players etc. If so, I agree with that position, regardless of whether I would agree with the actual decisions he would make.

The thing is, if he's the decision-maker then he's got to live and die by his own decisions. Failing to do so was the downfall of so many others such as Gord Stellick who likely caved to Ballard and Brophy in trading Courtnall for Kordic, etc. Once you give up decisional authority, you're no longer the manager but just a puppet and you've lost control.

If Dubas doesn't stay on with the Leafs, he will have another chance elsewhere and his day will come. He would be wise to do that on his own terms.

If they go separate ways, then I would have more confidence that Kyle Dubas will win a Stanley Cup before the Toronto Maple Leafs than the other way around.

This could be a replay of Alex Anthopolous and the Toronto Blue Jays. He left the organization rather than be told what to do.

What I don’t like about this situation is how Kyle Dubas is like the Auston Matthews at the executive level, creating this sort of separate entity from the team at the front office level, applying pressure to the Leafs and playing out in real time in the public.

I think he should definitely go to bat for himself and take care of his family but this kind of thing needs to happen quietly behind the scenes and the smooth functioning of the organization has to come first. Not for public consumption.

We don’t need to see the sausage making for the guy who is the figurehead of the organization, but just the clean united front once everything is settled.

It’ll just be such an awkward situation if he came back and had to pitch free agents to come here in a month and a half.

Kyle: “Come to Toronto, it’s the Mecca of hockey.”

UFA: “Ok Kyle, can you tell me a bit about the pressures on family life in Toronto? There was a lot of coverage back in May. Can you elaborate?”

Kyle: “Oh yeah, it sucks in Toronto and caused so much pressure at home.”

UFA: “Wonderful. Where do I sign?”

Being so insistent on a cone of silence and then opening up like this just creates awkward downstream consequences. It’s all noise.