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Eller's Arbitration

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417

417

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Andy said:
. Now Subban is on a second contract dispute and there still appears to be gulf between the way Eller percieves himself as a player and the way MB and MT do.

There were signs of this rocky relationship from the get go, I'm not surprised they've arrived at this point.
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Firstly - Subban isn't currently in a contract dispute

Secondly - yes, there appears to be a difference between Eller perceives himself and how the coach/GM do. This much is obvious, otherwise, we wouldn't be at this point. But this isn't uncommon with players in any sport and doesn't necessarily point towards animosity to the point where the relationship is irreparable.

Contract negotiations aren't always smooth...that's the side of business.
 
Andy

Andy

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417 said:
Find me a player who wouldn't want more icetime...come on man.

I bet if you asked 23 of the Habs players if they'd like more icetime, they'd ALL say yes.

Players, for the most part, aren't as thin-skinned as fans are.
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I think the one thin-skinned here is you. You oppose others by making personal attacks all the time. You do the same in the Subban thread. That's two post in a row where you attack the poster.

Where there is smoke there is usually fire. There warning signs at the beginning of 2012-2013. I'm not surprised they have to this point.

Also, Subban electing for Arbitration and the negotiations coming so close to the deadline make it a contract dispute. Twice in two years.
 
417

417

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Andy said:
No, I'm not. You are just trying to present my argument as a personal argument. It isn't at all.

We saw the same relationship between Ryder and the Gainey regime, people suggested the same, others like you brushed it off with the same counter arguments. The relationship between Ryder and the Habs ended rocky, He was let go for nothing and was a healthy scratch near the end.
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I don't recall my feelings about the Gainey/Ryder situation at the time...so I doubt you do.

The relationship between Ryder and Habs ended rocky because he was awful and fell out of favor with the coach. Not because he kept getting 1 yr deal, or at least...not exclusively.

Look..i'm not saying you're wrong,

Maybe there is some animosity there. But trying to base it on things like you pointed out, that's disingenuous at best.

These guys are professionals...but to read your post, you'd swear this was a garage league hockey team
 
Andy

Andy

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417 said:
I don't recall my feelings about the Gainey/Ryder situation at the time...so I doubt you do.

The relationship between Ryder and Habs ended rocky because he was awful and fell out of favor with the coach. Not because he kept getting 1 yr deal, or at least...not exclusively.

Look..i'm not saying you're wrong,

Maybe there is some animosity there. But trying to base it on things like you pointed out, that's disingenuous at best.

These guys are professionals...but to read your post, you'd swear this was a garage league hockey team
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Ryder elected for arbitration two years in a row. The rockyness of that relationship goes way before the 2007-2008 season.
 
417

417

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Andy said:
I think the one thin-skinned here is you. You oppose others by making personal attacks all the time. You do the same in the Subban thread. That's two post in a row where you attack the poster.

Where there is smoke there is usually fire. There warning signs at the beginning of 2012-2013. I'm not surprised they have to this point.

Also, Subban electing for Arbitration and the negotiations coming so close to the deadline make it a contract dispute. Twice in two years.
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I don't know where I personally attacked you, if I did...I apologize.

I just don't agree with a lot of things you wrote in that post, some of them might be legitimate...but things like "Player X holds a grudge because coach/gm didn't give him credit"???

Please
 
417

417

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Andy said:
Ryder elected for arbitration two years in a row. The rockyness of that relationship goes way before the 2007-2008 season.
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Team and player aren't always going to agree on their value...doesn't necessarily mean the relationship between both is beyond repair.

This is the big league's man...
 
Andy

Andy

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417 said:
I don't know where I personally attacked you, if I did...I apologize.

I just don't agree with a lot of things you wrote in that post, some of them might be legitimate...but things like "Player X holds a grudge because coach/gm didn't give him credit"???

Please
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I never said x player holds a grudge. I said episodes between Subban and Eller on one hand and MT and MB on the other suggest(operative word here) a rocky relationship.

Many foresaw this happening, with both players last year, infact that they actually suggested it would happen because of those very episodes.

Like I said, where there is smoke, there is usually fire. I'm not at all surprised it has reached this point with both players. Same reason I wasn't shocked when Ryder became an afterthought for the previous regime.
 
Andy

Andy

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417 said:
Team and player aren't always going to agree on their value...doesn't necessarily mean the relationship between both is beyond repair.

This is the big league's man...
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When you consistently cannot agree on the worth of a player, it suggests a rocky relationship, especially when the player's perceived worth of 5x5 was 100 times more reasonable than his GM's perception of his worth of 2.8x2 (of course talking about Subban).

When Subban and Eller get nickled and dimed, while Price, DD and Emelin get a generous offering, what else does it suggest but a gulf in the perception of worth.

MB's 2.875 offer for Subban last year and his 1.6 offer for Eller this says all it needs to say about how MB feels those players are worth. They very much reflect those episodes I mentioned earlier and I'm not surprised both have elected for arbitration and have held out for a deal. Twice in the case of Subban.
 

Not The One

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Feb 28, 2002
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Andy said:
No, I'm not. You are just trying to present my argument as a personal argument. It isn't at all.

We saw the same relationship between Ryder and the Gainey regime, people suggested the same, others like you brushed it off with the same counter arguments. The relationship between Ryder and the Habs ended rocky, He was let go for nothing and was a healthy scratch near the end.
Click to expand...

If you can't see that every single argument you listed is extremely subjective and personnal then you have a problem. It's all about "getting credit" and imagined "snubs" with some fans. I'd be astonished if (most) players were that petty and small-minded. The only valid reason to hold a grudge (on both sides) in your list is the Subban negociation and holdout. That's it.
 
Andy

Andy

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Not The One said:
If you can't see that every single argument you listed is extremely subjective and personnal then you have a problem. It's all about "getting credit" and imagined "snubs" with some fans. I'd be astonished if (most) players were that petty and small-minded. The only valid reason to hold a grudge (on both sides) in your list is the Subban negociation and holdout. That's it.
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Every argument on this board is subjective and personal. 417 has his own stake in this conversation based on his opinions on the cap that he has made well known.

Pretending to be objective is a bunch of bull. We are all subjective here. Without it we wouldn't have a message board.

Also, I've said those episodes SUGGEST a rocky relationship. It may very well be that they don't have one. However, now that both players have reached this point and seeing what MB has offered in the case of Eller and Subban last year, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was the case.
 
Runner77

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We don't know where things are at this point, but if I'm MB, I'm looking for term and would be willing to move on salary to get it. Not too sure what Eller's intentions might be. I'm guessing Eller won't be willing to commit beyond his RFA years.
 
ECWHSWI

ECWHSWI

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Runner77 said:
We don't know where things are at this point, but if I'm MB, I'm looking for term and would be willing to move on salary to get it. Not too sure what Eller's intentions might be. I'm guessing Eller won't be willing to commit beyond his RFA years.
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pretty much what I've been saying whole last season, his usage, the way staff talk about him, etc... he'll get the same (at worst) elsewhere, or better...

he'll gamble on having more and better elsewhere I'm sure.
 
llamateizer

llamateizer

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Milhouse40 said:
You missed a point...the fact that at 5on5 Eller outproduced Plekanec in the last 2 seasons and only 7 points away from Desharnais.

So he produced at the same rate at 5 on 5 as our top 6 players.
He's better for hits, faceoff and blockedshots......

What does he need to do in order to have chance to prove if he's a 2nd liner or not?
He won't outproduced players havind 200 minutes of PP time while having just 50 minutes...that's impossible....even if he did it in 12-13
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Eller had one good shortened season (2012-2013)
Eller was 3rd C during regular season last season 21 ES pts (plek 30, Desharnais 37).

I like to check Home and Road games. It gives me indication who is #1C, #2C and #3C

Home: you have last change, you can matchup with anyone. Eller was matched with weaker lines.
Road: no last change, get tougher matchup.

ES points on road

2013-2014 playoffs Eller 4th with 4 pts (plek (5),Briere(5),Desharnais(6))
2013-2014 season Eller 5th with 10pts (briere (15), Galchenyuk(16), Plek(19), Desharnais (33)
2012-2013 season Eller 3rd with 15pts (desharnais 17, plek 18)
2011-2012 Eller 3rd

As long as Eller cannot be top 2C ES on road games, he is #3C
 
ECWHSWI

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
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llamateizer said:
Eller had one good shortened season (2012-2013)
Eller was 3rd C during regular season last season 21 ES pts (plek 30, Desharnais 37).

I like to check Home and Road games. It gives me indication who is #1C, #2C and #3C

Home: you have last change, you can matchup with anyone. Eller was matched with weaker lines.
Road: no last change, get tougher matchup.

ES points on road

2013-2014 playoffs Eller 4th with 4 pts (plek (5),Briere(5),Desharnais(6))
2013-2014 season Eller 5th with 10pts (briere (15), Galchenyuk(16), Plek(19), Desharnais (33)
2012-2013 season Eller 3rd with 15pts (desharnais 17, plek 18)
2011-2012 Eller 3rd

As long as Eller cannot be top 2C ES on road games, he is #3C
Click to expand...

not really no...
 
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