Coffee
Take one step towards the direction you want to go
- Nov 12, 2021
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Elias Pettersson vs Tim Stützle
- Thread starter Coffee
- Start date
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
If I get the guy from 2 years ago Stutzle , if its the guy from last year give me Pettersson
Coffee
Take one step towards the direction you want to go
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Stutz is also younger though, hard to predict as both players can still progress
Stutzle for me, even though i don't like his diving credentials.
Last year he obviously played injured while there was a lot of Canucks fans disappointed with EP's playoff performance on these boards.
Add in the 3+ mill difference in cap hit, its an easy decision for me.
Last year he obviously played injured while there was a lot of Canucks fans disappointed with EP's playoff performance on these boards.
Add in the 3+ mill difference in cap hit, its an easy decision for me.
Chairman Maouth
Retired Staff
Petey. Last two seasons Petey has 191 combined points and outscored Stutz in both seasons. Stutz has 160 combined points. Petey is also a defensive rock.
SillyRabbit
Trix Are For Kids
- Jan 3, 2006
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This is a good poll.
I was quite disappointed with Pettersson's play for most of last season. Despite scoring over a PPG, he did not look anywhere near as good as he did in 2022-23.
There have been talks about him possibly playing injured, but I find it hard to believe he was injured for 6+ months. However it's a possible explanation.
On the defensive side of the puck, he was significantly better than Stutzle, but again, not at the same "deserves Selke votes" level he was in 2022-23.
As for Stutzle, there was pretty strong evidence that he was playing with an injured wrist for most of the season, which explains his dramatic drop in both shots and goals.
It was a disappointing season from him nonetheless, and frankly from the Sens as a whole. Personally I don't agree with his decision to play most of the season with a wrist injury and think he should've taken time off to recover fully.
Neither player got to play much with their top offensive players (Miller and Tkachuk) for most of the season.
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Stutzle is three years younger and locked up long term for three million less per season. I think his offensive potential is that of a 100-point player.
Defensively, he's quite poor.
Pettersson is currently the better player both offensively and defensively.
So it's really a question of whether you expect Stutzle to be able to catch Pettersson offensively while improving his defensive game enough to at least not be a liability (I highly doubt he will ever catch Pettersson defensively).
I'm really not sure what we will see out of Pettersson next season. I'd imagine it's somewhere between what we saw in 2023 and 2024. But if we get 2024 Pettersson, the Canucks will be in trouble.
I think I would take Stutzle in this situation. I expect him to bounce back offensively and even if he remains weak defensively, he's got a lot more room to grow and develop than Pettersson does given his age. Plus he's three million cheaper per season.
I was quite disappointed with Pettersson's play for most of last season. Despite scoring over a PPG, he did not look anywhere near as good as he did in 2022-23.
There have been talks about him possibly playing injured, but I find it hard to believe he was injured for 6+ months. However it's a possible explanation.
On the defensive side of the puck, he was significantly better than Stutzle, but again, not at the same "deserves Selke votes" level he was in 2022-23.
As for Stutzle, there was pretty strong evidence that he was playing with an injured wrist for most of the season, which explains his dramatic drop in both shots and goals.
It was a disappointing season from him nonetheless, and frankly from the Sens as a whole. Personally I don't agree with his decision to play most of the season with a wrist injury and think he should've taken time off to recover fully.
Neither player got to play much with their top offensive players (Miller and Tkachuk) for most of the season.
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Stutzle is three years younger and locked up long term for three million less per season. I think his offensive potential is that of a 100-point player.
Defensively, he's quite poor.
Pettersson is currently the better player both offensively and defensively.
So it's really a question of whether you expect Stutzle to be able to catch Pettersson offensively while improving his defensive game enough to at least not be a liability (I highly doubt he will ever catch Pettersson defensively).
I'm really not sure what we will see out of Pettersson next season. I'd imagine it's somewhere between what we saw in 2023 and 2024. But if we get 2024 Pettersson, the Canucks will be in trouble.
I think I would take Stutzle in this situation. I expect him to bounce back offensively and even if he remains weak defensively, he's got a lot more room to grow and develop than Pettersson does given his age. Plus he's three million cheaper per season.
Akrapovince
Registered User
- May 19, 2017
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If Stützle ever becomes the player EP40 is, I think Sens fans would be very happy.
Even ignoring contracts, I probably take a healthy Stutzle starting this year.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
This.
How he rebounds from last year will factor in huge in terms of the franchise's direction.
EP40 isn't quite as important to his team, because they are much better.
Development wise, they aren't at the same stage either.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
Miro4Norris
Registered User
- Jan 24, 2021
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Petey seems to be a head case, GM/coach hating his performance saying he's not injured. Despite of weaker season, gimme Stutz. Petey has had bad seasons as well.
Coffee
Take one step towards the direction you want to go
- Nov 12, 2021
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How ? He's still winning, HF isn't slow, recency bias does not effect the consensus on these boards
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
He is... winning? Sarcasm I guess?
People also have the memory of a gold fish, even worse than just 10 years ago as technology is destroying our brains. How quickly we forgot about this :
Every U21 player with 90+ points in a season since the 2004-05 lockout:
— Alex Ovechkin
— Sidney Crosby
— Steven Stamkos
— Connor McDavid
— Tim Stutzle
People acting like Stutzle had a "career year" at 20 y/o is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen, in the whole life not just hockey forums.
This is what Stutzle did in his D+3/D+4
78 Games 39 Goals 90 Pts
75 Games 18 Goals 70 Pts
So let's remember what Pettersson did at the same age :
68 Games 27 Goals 66 Pts
26 Games 10 Goals 21 Pts
I mean... yeah shitty timing for a poll considering Pettersson is more than 3 years older and Stutzle was injured all season last year.
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I think Stutzle has 7 years left.
I'm going against the grain here and saying Tim. I do think EP is the better player overall though. However, an extra 3.25M can be the difference between retaining/adding another star player or not.
Phrasing
Registered User
- Nov 16, 2007
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Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Scoring has also gone up. There wasn’t a lot of difference in their numbers in their D3 seasons.
Phrasing
Registered User
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I mean, starting from when they both entered the league they’ve also performed similarly, not just starting from D3.
I didn’t mean starting there, just comparing those years straight up. The poster was comparing 90 points to 66 in 68 but Pettersson was 20th in scoring and Stutzle was 19th.
Ace of Hades
#Demko4Vezina
Both underperformed last season. Both have elite offensive credentials and if you want to tell me Stutzle will be just as dynamic in his prime and maybe have a bit more of a bullishness in his game, I think that’s reasonable.
I don’t think Stutzle will come close as an all-around player and while I’d usually say for the true offensive superstar centers, two-way play can be greatly overrated as a value-added item…I do think when Petey is at full tilt, he’s one of the few offensive superstar centers who legitimately is and is utilized as a terrifically smart two-presence. In the case that their offensive upsides top out similarly - it’s a tiebreaker for me. And I’m willing to pay more the first half of the contract to get better value on the back end compared to Tim’s shorter deal.
I don’t think Stutzle will come close as an all-around player and while I’d usually say for the true offensive superstar centers, two-way play can be greatly overrated as a value-added item…I do think when Petey is at full tilt, he’s one of the few offensive superstar centers who legitimately is and is utilized as a terrifically smart two-presence. In the case that their offensive upsides top out similarly - it’s a tiebreaker for me. And I’m willing to pay more the first half of the contract to get better value on the back end compared to Tim’s shorter deal.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
Yes only played 1 year of his 8 years contract. And yes he's 3.25 AAV cheaper per season but he's also 3.5 years younger so who knows where they'll be when both in their prime?
I'd understand someone taking Pettersson in a raw comparison but if you're not taking AAV and age and consideration, you're definitely missing the boat.
If Stutzle is not elite, then how many players are Elite? Tim Stutzle is 22 y/o until 2025 and only 24 players sored more pts than him in the last 2 years combined. He has the 22nd best PPG. There's 32 teams, LHDs, RHDs, Centers, LWs and RWs... if Stutzle is not among the elite then not a lot are. If "elite" means Top-5 at a position then what does superstar means? McDavid? Well, no, he's generational.
Yes, as we can see it's reflected in the number of games he played. It would have been better for Stutzle's numbers to also not play all these games last season but he's a competitor so he still played and came close to PPG.
It doesn't matter, elite talent has been growing. League average was 3.02 goals per game per team in 2019-20 and 3.18 in 2022-23, not a huge difference. Those 90 pts in 2022-23 were still worth 85 pts in 2019-20
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