Player Discussion Elias Pettersson Talk | Also Chiropractors, the Medical Staff, and You

[PuckMunchkin]

I never had a problem with JT's body language.

JTs body language involved him dragging his feet behind the play after turning the puck over and resulted in goals against. Directly.

 

[MS]

Gimme a break. This is literally why I posted the meme, it is 100% you.

You can't stop yourself from wildly exaggerating constantly. No one said it's okay, you just can't handle it if someone deviates even the tiniest amount from the narrative you've built in your head.

The meme was just a total invention of a notion that people are unwilling to accept an injury might affect a player's play. Which is what you do. Dishonest arguing, attacking strawmen.

I haven't exaggerated about anything.

Again : minor injury turns a 110-point player into an 80-point player : whatever. Minor injury turns a player from a 110-point player into a pretty much useless bottom-6 C who hasn't scored an ES goal in nearly half a season : not acceptable.

And abso-f***ing-lutely I take issue with posters like Puckmunchkin who are attempting to frame this situation as entirely normal and entirely caused by an injury, and are unwilling to hear any criticism.

Anyone concerned about his play is legit. Anyone pointing out he had garbage on both wings and was injured is legit. Anyone pointing out he's slumping is legit. Anyone pointing out he's slumped before is legit.

Pointing out a minor injury is not the same thing as using it to totally excuse a half-season of catastrophic play, which is what some of you are doing.

Linemates are not an excuse or a reason or anything. It's obvious to anyone that has eyes that his performances are nowhere near their normal levels. And he's stunk with good linemates, too.

You on the other hand have been whining and playing the victim for weeks about how "not allowed to criticize EP" and "EP fanbois hug his nuts every time there's a hint of criticism" when almost every post about EP is very critical and it ranges from reasonable things like the above to you and Bobby9's borderline trolling. You literally get upset if there's even a hint of a post about something that might have had a factor on his play other than being a a wrong emoting diva.

What the hell kind of ridiculous nonsense is this? And you're saying I exaggerate?

I've said a million times that obviously injuries can affect a player's play. Nobody has ever said otherwise.

My reactions are to people who are saying that he shouldn't be criticized because he was/is hurt. And that's total BS, and I've explained why extensively in the parts of my posts that you chop out and ignore so you can focus on attacking me personally.

And, like, f***. I made a nothing comment in a game summary post about how it would have been nice to see him start off well in the preseason after the way last season finished and I had people jumping down my throat. If you even slightly question EP's compete level or character you've basically got 5 people instantly attacking you because HE WAS HURT or HOW DARE YOU or whatever. It's absolutely crazy compared the the way this fanbase reacted to JT Miller when he had a much smaller window of much less terrible play when some character issues bubbled to the surface.

The diva comments were in reference to his handling of his contract situation last year, and I struggle to see how anyone neutral could take issue with them. If going on a boat cruise with Elliotte Friedman and announcing that you're not sure if the Vancouver Canucks are good enough for you to re-sign with and then backing that up with his ridiculous behaviour/interviews all year isn't diva behaviour, I honestly don't know what is.

I never had a problem with JT's body language.

Puckmunchkin absolutely crucified him for it and hasn't shut up about it for two years since.

And while their reaction was comically over-the-top, the reasonable criticism of it was totally fair. As a member of our core leadership group wearing an A, JT Miller shouldn't be acting like a total spaz. And as a member of our core leadership group wearing an A, Elias Pettersson shouldn't look like he's moping around the ice like his dog just died. It's their f***ing job to be professional and project leadership and confidence.

 

[David71]

I posted this on the mainboards, but I think he just has the sort of psychological/mental profile of someone susceptible to burnout. A lot of young, gifted people are like this. You're either super motivated to do something, obsessively improving at it, or you just hit the wall and have no desire to do the very same thing at all after that period of hyperfixation is over.

I think one of the things that defines many generational talents is that sort of single-minded devotion and obsession with their sport, where they'll never get bored of it or lose motivation, even if theyre the best at it. I don't think Pettersson is that type of guy. I think Pettersson has been experiencing that sort of loss of passion for the game and general burnout, and the contract situation and the pressure and scrutiny of being "that guy" who needs to perform really gets to him in a way that it doesnt for someone like Hughes.

He really needs a sports psychologist if he doesn't have one. Im kind of surprised that this isn't a more common issue in the sport; I guess being in the NHL sort of already selects for people that don't get burned out from hockey, but still. You do see this happen from time to time in other sports, at least.

agreed with seeing a sports psycohologist. the body language the "injury" might as well sit out and let someone contribute. right now hes being paid 11.6/year to be the engine on the offense but it hasn't worked out since dating back to last year +playoffs. He had "all summer to train and rehab and get ready from day 1 of training camp. yet here we are 4 games in hes still a ghost. i remember or read that nathan mackinnion did the same thing his numbers dipped the year prior then he went to a sports psychologist to sort out whatever "issues" was bothering him and he went On an absolute tear the following year and continued ever since.

The Secret to Nathan MacKinnon's Success - CEP Mindset

Nathan MacKinnon was the first overall pick in the 2013 NHL draft.In his first year with the Colorado Avalanche he: Put up 63 points in 82 regular season games - rounding out to 0.77 points per

cepmindset.com

 

[im gangster]

MS and Munchkin sittin in a tree

A.N.A...

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I posted this on the mainboards, but I think he just has the sort of psychological/mental profile of someone susceptible to burnout. A lot of young, gifted people are like this. You're either super motivated to do something, obsessively improving at it, or you just hit the wall and have no desire to do the very same thing at all after that period of hyperfixation is over.

I think one of the things that defines many generational talents is that sort of single-minded devotion and obsession with their sport, where they'll never get bored of it or lose motivation, even if theyre the best at it. I don't think Pettersson is that type of guy. I think Pettersson has been experiencing that sort of loss of passion for the game and general burnout, and the contract situation and the pressure and scrutiny of being "that guy" who needs to perform really gets to him in a way that it doesnt for someone like Hughes.

He really needs a sports psychologist if he doesn't have one. Im kind of surprised that this isn't a more common issue in the sport; I guess being in the NHL sort of already selects for people that don't get burned out from hockey, but still. You do see this happen from time to time in other sports, at least.

Every NHL regular needs a sports psychologist.

Not having one is like not having a trainer setup your summer training regime.

agreed with seeing a sports psycohologist. the body language the "injury" might as well sit out and let someone contribute. right now hes being paid 11.6/year to be the engine on the offense but it hasn't worked out since dating back to last year +playoffs. He had "all summer to train and rehab and get ready from day 1 of training camp. yet here we are 4 games in hes still a ghost. i remember or read that nathan mackinnion did the same thing his numbers dipped the year prior then he went to a sports psychologist to sort out whatever "issues" was bothering him and he went On an absolute tear the following year and continued ever since.

The Secret to Nathan MacKinnon's Success - CEP Mindset

Nathan MacKinnon was the first overall pick in the 2013 NHL draft.In his first year with the Colorado Avalanche he: Put up 63 points in 82 regular season games - rounding out to 0.77 points per

cepmindset.com

"Elias Pettersson" and his "injury" should have been "diagnosed" properly by the "Canucks medical staff" and they should have made the call for "him."

 

[im gangster]

agreed with seeing a sports psycohologist. the body language the "injury" might as well sit out and let someone contribute. right now hes being paid 11.6/year to be the engine on the offense but it hasn't worked out since dating back to last year +playoffs. He had "all summer to train and rehab and get ready from day 1 of training camp. yet here we are 4 games in hes still a ghost. i remember or read that nathan mackinnion did the same thing his numbers dipped the year prior then he went to a sports psychologist to sort out whatever "issues" was bothering him and he went On an absolute tear the following year and continued ever since.

The Secret to Nathan MacKinnon's Success - CEP Mindset

Nathan MacKinnon was the first overall pick in the 2013 NHL draft.In his first year with the Colorado Avalanche he: Put up 63 points in 82 regular season games - rounding out to 0.77 points per

cepmindset.com

Every NHL regular needs a sports psychologist.

Not having one is like not having a trainer setup your summer training regime.


"Elias Pettersson" and his "injury" should have been "diagnosed" properly by the "Canucks medical staff" and they should have made the call for "him."

https://x.com/i/web/status/1769491971523969140

https://x.com/i/web/status/1769483723685101637

https://x.com/i/web/status/1769492400727023956

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

It was the worst playoff performance relative to salary/expectation in franchise history. He was given a monumental free pass for it. Compare the treatment a guy like Marner has received for playing miles better than that in Toronto vs. Pettersson having the whole building chanting for him to 'support him' and 'get him going'.

Dude, why is Petey's sudden struggles making you so hysterical with hyperbole.

Yes, the worst relative to salary and expectation in team history. Looking at salary Loui Eriksson made like 1.3 million less to do absolutely nothing.

And expectations? Paging Todd Bertuzzi or Dan Cloutier year after year in the playoffs.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I don't hate either player. I quite like Boeser as a person and always have.

However, when you're getting a massive contract as a pro athlete, the basic expectation is that you show up and compete no matter what. And when players don't do that, they get criticized. Again, this is simple stuff. Jacob Markstrom's father died in the middle of an NHL season and he stayed focused and had the best year of his career. Do your f***ing job.

Pettersson I don't like as a person (but definitely not 'hate') because he's spent most of the last 4 years either playing like absolute shit or being a diva holding the city to ransom about whether the team was good enough for him to stay. I'm sick of his high-maintenance bullshit. He's used up any benefit of the doubt when he has a stretch like this and is basically the boy who cried wolf at this point.



You're describing yourself here.

Again : the GM of the Vancouver Canucks openly called out Boeser's compete level during his 40-goal season. Issues with Boeser's compete level weren't some magic fantasy that people just made up when he was playing far worse. Criticisms of his compete level when he was playing like garbage for 3 out of 4 seasons were totally valid.

Tocchet did a brilliant job getting Boeser turned around and competing last year ... and even then, his play fell off because he got complacent again after some success. It will probably be an ongoing thing for his whole career to try and keep him engaged to get the best out of him.

Holy shit is this ever tacky.

Hurr durr two people losing a parent is exactly the same because surely there can't be differing degrees of closeness, or differing circumstances (like watching your father wither away over several years and feelings trapped by the game you're paid to play so you can't spend his last moments with him). This is f***ing gross. They aren't automatons out there to entertain you, they are human beings.

And your take on Petey will go down like your take on Boeser did. Another thing you're wrong about but will take zero accountability for, like Edler too.

You're on a rough streak because you've typically been a for more cerebral poster than this.

PuckMunchkin is defending Pettersson in this thread more than his own mom probably would.

Imagine a fan of a team defending a star player when they struggle instead of whining that he 'doesn't care' like you do from your couch, and then making knee jerk posts about trading all of our stars when they have a few bad games.

This place is addicted to negativity. Quell Surprise that the negativity wasn't just about Benning. It's a pathological need to see the negative in everything that permeates this board with some prominent posters who follow their 'favorite sport' in a way that makes me really question how happy they are in life in general.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Imagine a fan of a team defending a star player when they struggle instead of whining that he 'doesn't care' like you do from your couch, and then making knee jerk posts about trading all of our stars when they have a few bad games.

It’s not just defending, it’s the inability to critique or see anything negative in a particular player’s game which has been present for multiple stretches, and for multiple times in his career.


Also I’ve never suggested he “doesn’t care” or made knee jerk posts about trading him, but I have suggested that if his struggles continue it’s something that the team needs to at least explore.

This place is addicted to negativity. Quell Surprise that the negativity wasn't just about Benning. It's a pathological need to see the negative in everything that permeates this board with some prominent posters who follow their 'favorite sport' in a way that makes me really question how happy they are in life in general.

Aren’t you a counsellor? Mr Wannabe psychologist? Go get your PH.D first before you start analyzing poster’s personal mental health from a message board. Stick to your “talk therapy”.

 

[Hodgy]

It’s not just defending, it’s the inability to critique or see anything negative in a particular player’s game which has been present for multiple stretches, and for multiple times in his career.


Also I’ve never suggested he “doesn’t care” or made knee jerk posts about trading him, but I have suggested that if his struggles continue it’s something that the team needs to at least explore.

Aren’t you a counsellor? Mr Wannabe psychologist? Go get your PH.D first before you start analyzing poster’s personal mental health from a message board. Stick to your “talk therapy”.

If I am not mistaken, @MarkusNaslund19 was a staunch defender of the Benning regime and also hated all the negativity at that time, so he really shouldn’t be an authority on any of this.

 

[Hodgy]

Summary of the last couple pages:

View attachment 918441

lol, this is such a massive strawman, and is quite obviously not what is happening.

For whatever reason, you have been overly sensitive to Pettersson criticism and that seems to be clouding your judgment.

It's just as serious of a post as your post about the bar for injured EP being an injured Draisatl, probably the best player in the last decade at still being elite while injured.

Again, this is a strawman. No one is saying he has to play as well as Draisaitl. During the playoffs posters were excusing Pettersson’s abysmal play as entirely or partly as a result of injury, and Drasaitl was such an obvious example of why this wasn’t necessarily true since we all literally witnessed this example. The point was never that Pettersson could or needed to play to that level, only that star players can and frequently do play through injuries and can and frequently do get far better results relative to their health play than Pettersson was able to.

 

[thecupismine]

All right people need to relax a little. Unless you actively want Petterson to fail, you’re on the same side as the rest of the posters here, and it would do everyone some good to remember that before getting caught up in their next post.

Petey clearly has something going on between his ears, and it’s been a recurrent issue dating back to that weird start to the 2022 season. Someone needs to snap him out of it (or get him help from a sports psychologist), but we could probably do better than calling him a diva & other sorts of names.

Also blaming this on injury at this point is a bit facetious. Knee tendinitis, unless it’s progressed at an abnormal rate, isn’t going to stop a 25 year old from competing professionally (source: my wife’s a doctor).

 

[Russian_fanatic]

Posting this is in this thread, because a poster told me, how quickly we forget EP was a 100 point player 2 seasons ago with Kuzmenko and Mikheyev lol....

Why would I care about 2 years ago? 4 years ago he had 18 points in 17 playoff games. Should we clap our hands for him?

Why not look at the fact our $11 million centerman ended last season with 6 goals and 17 points in 27 games, then had 6 points and 1 goal in 13 playoff games. He should be motivated to come out blazing this season, but has 1 point in 4 games.

In summary our $11 million centerman has 24 points and 7 goals in his last 44 games (a 13 goal, 44 point pace over 82 games). You think that's a small sample size? It's more than a half season worth of games. EP is not free from criticism, especially at this point.

 

[Peter Griffin]

All right people need to relax a little. Unless you actively want Petterson to fail, you’re on the same side as the rest of the posters here, and it would do everyone some good to remember that before getting caught up in their next post.

Petey clearly has something going on between his ears, and it’s been a recurrent issue dating back to that weird start to the 2022 season. Someone needs to snap him out of it (or get him help from a sports psychologist), but we could probably do better than calling him a diva & other sorts of names.

Also blaming this on injury at this point is a bit facetious. Knee tendinitis, unless it’s progressed at an abnormal rate, isn’t going to stop a 25 year old from competing professionally (source: my wife’s a doctor).

Yea it really seems like he has an issue dealing with adversity. He himself wasn’t ready to blame any injury on his struggles yet random fans on the internet are quick to wave that banner for him. It’s bizarre.

 

[Hodgy]

Yea it really seems like he has an issue dealing with adversity. He himself wasn’t ready to blame any injury on his struggles yet random fans on the internet are quick to wave that banner for him. It’s bizarre.

It’s funny because in todays day in age mental health is far better understood, and the consequences of mental health are more openly accepted, but you have a group of posters on here that seem relatively unwilling to accept that Pettersson’s mental health be a large contributor to his struggles.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

I only really watch the canucks when They're losing or playing bad, so I didn't see much of Pettersson when he was playing well in 2023. But when I watch him now he just looks so slow and weak. He still gets knocked down constantly. He loses battles everywhere. He looks fatigued early in his shifts. Obviously his confidence is completely shot. To me the confidence problem is just the result of not being physically able to do what he used to do.

I just don't think he works out hard enough. I'm not seeing the same physical progression that you see from other top players. Think about the twins in year 7 of their careers vs year 1. Now, I admit I longer follow the canucks closely enough to have seen any pictures of him that would give me an idea of how his physique is progressing. Training camp stuff, etc. I am asking to see them, if they exist! If anyone can point me to visual or other evidence I would love to see it. But when I see him looking physically overmatched AND lacking in speed and quickness I'm not sure what other conclusion you can reach.

It's sad because I actually want him to succeed! I can't really say that about the rest of this terrible, unlikeable collection of bums

 

[PavelBure10]

Wakey, wakey eggs and bakey.

I am seeing the progression, just want Pettersson to wake up from his funk and breakout.

I think every Canucks fan wants him to succeed. We know what the player is capable of, a electrifying top 10 forward in the league, but something is clearly wrong. As fans I think we all handle the hurdles of disappointment in different ways. Some of us get angry, some get confused and some are willing to wait and see before making an accessment. Point is, we are "All" on the same team, the thread has derailed a few times, but we all have the right to our opinions whether they differ from others or not. That's what makes this discussion so enjoyable.

I think everyone would agree with me on this though, We all just want to witness the superstar "100 point player" that we know Petey can be.

Something is clearly wrong, I just hope the 25 year old can figure it out or that 11.6 million dollar contract will haunt us for years.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Scoring through this thread, trying to catch up

God team does this fan base hate elites talent or what

I love JT but I can still say it with 100% confidence that EP is the more talented player

 

[MS]

Dude, why is Petey's sudden struggles making you so hysterical with hyperbole.

Yes, the worst relative to salary and expectation in team history. Looking at salary Loui Eriksson made like 1.3 million less to do absolutely nothing.

And expectations? Paging Todd Bertuzzi or Dan Cloutier year after year in the playoffs.

Ha, even Loui Eriksson never had a stretch of 1 ESG in 42 games as a Canuck and he was making half the money with a fraction of the expectations. The one playoffs he had there were zero expectations by that point.

Bertuzzi never had a playoffs that bad. Even when he didn't produce in 2003 (still better production that 2024 Pettersson in a lower-scoring league) he was a physical force.

It's a true statement. It was the worst playoffs relative to salary/expectation in Canuck history. It was horrific. But if you actually call it for what it was, people freak out.

Holy shit is this ever tacky.

Hurr durr two people losing a parent is exactly the same because surely there can't be differing degrees of closeness, or differing circumstances (like watching your father wither away over several years and feelings trapped by the game you're paid to play so you can't spend his last moments with him). This is f***ing gross. They aren't automatons out there to entertain you, they are human beings.

I don't care if it sounds harsh. It's the truth.

These players are getting $50 million or $80 million contracts to play in the best league in the world. It's your f***ing job to show up and be prepared, no matter what your external distractions are. It's no different than getting 7 or 8 figures to be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company or be the lead actor in a Hollywood movie. If you are judged to be the best in your profession and given the massive responsibility and reward that comes with that, you'd better be able to tune out the distractions, show up, and do your job like a professional.

Most guys manage to do it. If you can't, it's a problem.

My mom and grandma were diagnosed with cancer in the same week in 2017. I didn't get to go into work and do a shit job for a year because I felt bad, and I'm sure as hell not getting paid $7 million.

And your take on Petey will go down like your take on Boeser did. Another thing you're wrong about but will take zero accountability for, like Edler too.

You're on a rough streak because you've typically been a for more cerebral poster than this.

Again, it's funny that the GM can call out Boeser for not competing during his 40-goal season but people calling out his lack of compete during 20-goal trainwreck seasons are somehow wrong.

Compete level was a problem for Boeser before his dad's condition deteriorated at the end. And it's been a problem again since.

And, as I've said repeatedly, of course I expect Pettersson will come out of this at some point. That doesn't mean that criticism of his play over this last 40 games, during which he was the biggest contributor to blowing our best playoff chance in over a decade, was 'wrong'.

Imagine a fan of a team defending a star player when they struggle instead of whining that he 'doesn't care' like you do from your couch, and then making knee jerk posts about trading all of our stars when they have a few bad games.

This place is addicted to negativity. Quell Surprise that the negativity wasn't just about Benning. It's a pathological need to see the negative in everything that permeates this board with some prominent posters who follow their 'favorite sport' in a way that makes me really question how happy they are in life in general.

I can't speak for everyone but I barely had a negative thing to say about anything for all of last season (or the Tocchet period of the season before). It was fantastic, until Pettersson pulled his disappearing act. And guess what? Pettersson's disappearing act is an actual major negative that merited negative comment.

You're acting like this guy has been a consistent gamer his whole career and that people are losing his shit because he had a bad 10 games. A guy playing this bad for this long at this salary is basically unprecedented, other than the other time he himself did it 3 years ago. Like, even Huberdeau hasn't had a 40-game segment this bad ... and how has Huberdeau been treated? Should his struggles just be totally ignored? Or does this only apply to Pettersson?

 

[strattonius]

If criticizing Pettersson's play makes me a hater than so be it. I hate that his CAP hit cripples this team when he plays like a goldfish. Last game was encouraging but if I'm being honest I'm actually expecting a lackadaisical effort in Philadelphia. If that's hating I accept.

 

[tradervik]

I’m concerned by Petey’s play but I won’t be panicking unless he announces he’s hired a personal chef and is rededicating himself to hockey.

 

[tyhee]

Getting away for a moment from whether it is ok to criticize EP40, whether he'll break out of his lengthy slump, what the reasons are etc, hockey-reference.com shows Pettersson's offensive zone start % while at even strength, for the first four games of the season, is 29.7%. (His all-situation % is higher because of power play time.)

Again according to hockey-reference.com his previous season low for offensive zone start % at even strength was 53.2% last season, a season in which is production dropped markedly. I'm guessing his utilization changed as his slump wore on.

There's no real point to be made here, I just find the extent of the difference interesting. Clearly Tocchet isn't using him as a key offensive weapon this season except to include him on the power play. It isn't surprising at all to see his useage change with lack of production, but I hadn't noticed that the change was so extreme that we've got a player making top-5 money in the league being utilized, while at even strength, almost the way a defensive shutdown forward usually would be.

Likely related to that is that Sprong's useage numbers are similar, probably because Sprong was played on a line with EP. In Pettersson's case the useage may make sense (Pettersson't defensive game is generally respected and he's received Selke votes the past two seasons) but It seems REALLY odd to find Daniel Sprong being started mostly in the defensive zone.

In an unrelated matter, the most interesting thing I saw relating to possession stats on that Canucks' team page was Teddy Blueger getting 24.1% offensive zone starts but having a 57.5% CF% and a + 7.8% CFRel. On the face of it those figures would be shockingly outstanding, but CF needs a larger sample size to make conclusions from and although there can be little doubt that his CF stats will head towards the norm for his useage as the season wears on, I'll find it interesting keeping watch on those numbers.