Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - Please, Be Civil

[Hodgy]

Is there a documented case in NHL history of a player losing significant speed & shot power in the middle of a season without it being injury-related? Because that is essentially what you are claiming happened with Pettersson if you don't buy that he is injured.

Is he choosing not to skate or shoot hard? And he started choosing to do that about 20 games before signing the biggest contract of his life?

You can either use common sense, or you can believe that the Canucks are the unluckiest franchise in the history of the sport who had a player look elite for 400 games, and then turn off the switch (before signing a deal)

Seriously it's such a stupid theory.

So why was he skating so poorly during his last half season slump?

 

[crowfish]

So why was he skating so poorly during his last half season slump?

Because that is the exact timeline of when he said he was injured and his production fell off? What is your theory?

 

[Hodgy]

Because that is the exact timeline of when he said he was injured and his production fell off? What is your theory?

He had a minor wrist injury. Your theory is that this minor wrist injury caused him to skate poorly?

Look, I've said it a million times, but I am not claiming to definitively know. But anyone that thinks this is cut and dry and that an injury must be causing him to play poorly isn't looking at the evidence closely.

EDIT: To clarify, I am talking about his previous slump that was half a year long or so, not this current slump that began last year.

 

[Bobby9]

So now EP and Tocchet aren’t getting along? What a diva this dude is



https://x.com/sekeresandprice/status/1869424523533320631?s=46

 

[Bgav]

So now EP and Tocchet aren’t getting along? What a diva this dude is

why, because jeff pattersson said so? lmao

 

[Bobby9]

why, because jeff pattersson said so? lmao

Should I wait for somebody on the forums to say it?

 

[Bgav]

Should I wait for somebody on the forums to say it?

It would mean the same since it was him assuming.

 

[Bobby9]

It would mean the same since it was him assuming.

Which SME should I listen to? PuckMunchkin or AlainVigneaultsGut?

 

[Bgav]

Which SME should I listen to? PuckMunchkin or AlainVigneaultsGut?

Maybe don't take a clip and state it's a fact and call the player a diva. But you do you

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

None of the local media guy has any reliable source on this team ever since JR took over
They only get stuff that the management want them to know

Example? JT Miller absence

 

[racerjoe]

It's not just if it is minor or not, and whether you miss games. That's part of it. But the bigger more important part is that its a wrist injury. It wouldn't have stopped him from any skating training, or any real core training. So it just isn't reasonable to think it likely that his wrist injury caused him to skate poorly in his last slump. Debating exactly how minor his wrist injury was, when trying to figure out if it significantly affected his skating, is a waste of time. Its a moot point.

If we were talking about a knee injury, like his current injury, then for sure the severity of the injury is extremely important. But it just isn't the case when we are talking a wrist injury.

It couldn’t be like Hronek who had a shoulder surgery than got knee surgery? Or he’ll for all we know he could have had tendinitis then too and needed a rest…. And yes a wrist injury could theoretically keep him off skates in ways for him to be behind on his training.

 

[Hodgy]

It couldn’t be like Hronek who had a shoulder surgery than got knee surgery? Or he’ll for all we know he could have had tendinitis then too and needed a rest…. And yes a wrist injury could theoretically keep him off skates in ways for him to be behind on his training.

It couldn’t be like Hronek who had a shoulder surgery than got knee surgery? Or he’ll for all we know he could have had tendinitis then too and needed a rest…. And yes a wrist injury could theoretically keep him off skates in ways for him to be behind on his training.

Sure, any player playing poorly at any time could have an injury to excuse his performance. But there isn’t any evidence of that and it seems far fetched and grasping at straws to me.

 

[racerjoe]

Sure, any player playing poorly at any time could have an injury to excuse his performance. But there isn’t any evidence of that and it seems far fetched and grasping at straws to me.

Except there is two known injuries…

Also you took the wrong part of my point, but whatever.

 

[Hodgy]

Except there is two known injuries…

But not an injury that explains his poor skating in the first slump.

Also you took the wrong part of my point, but whatever.

What’s your point then? I thought you brought up Hronek to suggest that Pettersson, during his first slump, may have had a lower body injury in addition to the wrist injury. And my point is that any player at any time may have an injury, and that it comes off as grasping at straws when you suggest there is some phantom injury that no one knew of or reported on.

 

[mriswith]

This argument about ancient history of EP only exists because literally no one remembers what was happening several years ago. It's 100% narrative.

Luckily we don't need to go back to the history of Charlemagne's reign to examine what's wrong with EP when we can look at what's happening game to game right now.

It's not a lack of effort or confidence or likes on instagram that makes EP skate like this and we don't need to review the Magna Carta or find out who built the pyramids to see this:

TBL@VAN: Point scores empty-net goal | NHL.com

TBL@VAN: Point scores empty-net goal

www.nhl.com

 

[SillyRabbit]

Let's say Pettersson is injured.

What exactly are we supposed to expect here?

That he just continues to play through injury, very clearly not on the level that he's shown before?

For how long exactly? For the rest of his career?

We just accept that this is his new norm?

Or alternatively, are we expecting him to get better? When? How? Does he need time to "play through" the injury and it will eventually go away? Does he need time off? Does he need surgery?

He signed for 93 million dollars. The organization has made a significant investment in him. I find it difficult to believe that nobody has asked these questions already.

If he was injured, surely they'd sit him out, get him surgery or at the very least announce publicly that he's playing through something and will get better over time.

So either the organization is legitimately incompetent, or he's not injured.

And frankly, whether he's injured or not isn't important, what's important is how does he get back to normal?

If he's injured, what's the path back to normal?

If he's not injured, what's the path back to normal?

Or is his current play over the past 70 games the new normal?

 

[racerjoe]

But not an injury that explains his poor skating in the first slump.


What’s your point then? I thought you brought up Hronek to suggest that Pettersson, during his first slump, may have had a lower body injury in addition to the wrist injury. And my point is that any player at any time may have an injury, and that it comes off as grasping at straws when you suggest there is some phantom injury that no one knew of or reported on.

It was one of many things I said… to show that there is a lot of ways a wrist injury could have effected his skating, and or been more of an injury than you just claiming it’s a minor injury with no evidence.

 

[Bobby9]

Let's say Pettersson is injured.

What exactly are we supposed to expect here?

That he just continues to play through injury, very clearly not on the level that he's shown before?

For how long exactly? For the rest of his career?

We just accept that this is his new norm?

Or alternatively, are we expecting him to get better? When? How? Does he need time to "play through" the injury and it will eventually go away? Does he need time off? Does he need surgery?

He signed for 93 million dollars. The organization has made a significant investment in him. I find it difficult to believe that nobody has asked these questions already.

If he was injured, surely they'd sit him out, get him surgery or at the very least announce publicly that he's playing through something and will get better over time.

So either the organization is legitimately incompetent, or he's not injured.

And frankly, whether he's injured or not isn't important, what's important is how does he get back to normal?

If he's injured, what's the path back to normal?

If he's not injured, what's the path back to normal?

Or is his current play over the past 70 games the new normal?

He’s a very talent extremely streaky player. There is no injury. It’s made up from posters. When he’s on fire he is pretty much a top 10 player. Issue is when he’s not it’s long long stretches of sub par play.

It’s a cycle at this point. You just hope at some point over the next decade he goes on a heater during the playoffs. It happens every 8-10 months.

Certainly not a 11.6M dollar player. That requires consistency he is incapable of.

An 11.6M forward is: A constant threat to score every game. Elevates his game when the team requires. Shows consistency of showing up when needed. Performs in the playoffs. Plays physically. That is not who EP40 is.

He is an over paid RNH. A good and occasionally great player but a support player and should be paid around 7 M

 

[mriswith]

Let's say Pettersson is injured.

What exactly are we supposed to expect here?

That he just continues to play through injury, very clearly not on the level that he's shown before?

For how long exactly? For the rest of his career?

We just accept that this is his new norm?

Or alternatively, are we expecting him to get better? When? How? Does he need time to "play through" the injury and it will eventually go away? Does he need time off? Does he need surgery?

He signed for 93 million dollars. The organization has made a significant investment in him. I find it difficult to believe that nobody has asked these questions already.

If he was injured, surely they'd sit him out, get him surgery or at the very least announce publicly that he's playing through something and will get better over time.

So either the organization is legitimately incompetent, or he's not injured.

And frankly, whether he's injured or not isn't important, what's important is how does he get back to normal?

If he's injured, what's the path back to normal?

If he's not injured, what's the path back to normal?

Or is his current play over the past 70 games the new normal?

We don't have access to enough info to know any answers to this. If he's permanently injured then trade him, if he's not then don't. Any sort of prognosis is impossible.

Whether the org is incompetent or not with how they deal with injured players was already answered by how utterly atrociously they handled Mikheyev.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

How is it "bad faith"? That's a ridiculous accusation. I mention that he missed no games for his wrist injury to show that it was a relatively minor injury and not something that could explain his poor skating. My point isn't that he didn't have a wrist injury, not an injury someone would reasonably expect to significantly affect his skating.

This is not a good way to think.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Let's say Pettersson is injured.

What exactly are we supposed to expect here?

That he just continues to play through injury, very clearly not on the level that he's shown before?

For how long exactly? For the rest of his career?

We just accept that this is his new norm?

Or alternatively, are we expecting him to get better? When? How? Does he need time to "play through" the injury and it will eventually go away? Does he need time off? Does he need surgery?

He signed for 93 million dollars. The organization has made a significant investment in him. I find it difficult to believe that nobody has asked these questions already.

If he was injured, surely they'd sit him out, get him surgery or at the very least announce publicly that he's playing through something and will get better over time.

So either the organization is legitimately incompetent, or he's not injured.

And frankly, whether he's injured or not isn't important, what's important is how does he get back to normal?

If he's injured, what's the path back to normal?

If he's not injured, what's the path back to normal?

Or is his current play over the past 70 games the new normal?

We should expect the Canucks to to blow up and reconstruct the medical staff.

Their record is horrific. If I were a player I would be really worried about signing here and giving my health and career in to the hands of this group.

We should expect for EP to change his training. I dont know what he does but its obviously not working as intended.

So why was he skating so poorly during his last half season slump?

I dont think he was.

 

[Slapshot_11]

So this guy continues to be a bum..

At what point do we not look at buying him out?

 

[Bleach Clean]

So this guy continues to be a bum..

At what point do we not look at buying him out?

He wasn't the worst top6 centre on the night.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Let's say Pettersson is injured.

What exactly are we supposed to expect here?

That he just continues to play through injury, very clearly not on the level that he's shown before?

For how long exactly? For the rest of his career?

We just accept that this is his new norm?

Or alternatively, are we expecting him to get better? When? How? Does he need time to "play through" the injury and it will eventually go away? Does he need time off? Does he need surgery?

He signed for 93 million dollars. The organization has made a significant investment in him. I find it difficult to believe that nobody has asked these questions already.

If he was injured, surely they'd sit him out, get him surgery or at the very least announce publicly that he's playing through something and will get better over time.

So either the organization is legitimately incompetent, or he's not injured.

And frankly, whether he's injured or not isn't important, what's important is how does he get back to normal?

If he's injured, what's the path back to normal?

If he's not injured, what's the path back to normal?

Or is his current play over the past 70 games the new normal?

I think the reasons why nobody is asking these questions are 1) we don't have the medical information, and no matter how much we ask the team will never disclose it (and they shouldn't disclose it to the public under any circumstances anyways), and 2) I think most people don't want to know the answer, IF this is something permanent. If it does get reveal somehow that this is Petey's new level going forward, it would essentially cripple the franchise. It has been 10 months and counting (including 3 months off in the summer), and almost a full season's worth of games already, since EP was consistently an elite player in this league, I think there is a level of fear buried within our subconscious that this might be the player he is going forward, and we aren't ready to accept it?

Well at least #2 is true for me, I don't know if it applies to anybody else. I so badly want him to bounce back, and even though he is getting better and there are signs of it, I'm not seeing the elite plays at a consistent level to believe he is on the verge of being "back" nor am I 100% convince it will happen eventually.

 

[Bobby9]

I think the reasons why nobody is asking these questions are 1) we don't have the medical information, and no matter how much we ask the team will never disclose it (and they shouldn't disclose it to the public under any circumstances anyways), and 2) I think most people don't want to know the answer, IF this is something permanent. If it does get reveal somehow that this is Petey's new level going forward, it would essentially cripple the franchise. It has been 10 months and counting (including 3 months off in the summer), and almost a full season's worth of games already, since EP was consistently an elite player in this league, I think there is a level of fear buried within our subconscious that this might be the player he is going forward, and we aren't ready to accept it?

Well at least #2 is true for me, I don't know if it applies to anybody else. I so badly want him to bounce back, and even though he is getting better and there are signs of it, I'm not seeing the elite plays at a consistent level to believe he is on the verge of being "back" nor am I 100% convince it will happen eventually.

OR nobody is asking it because he isnt injured....