Proposal: Eichel to Rangers

[Rangerboy030]

So who has better linemates? Who has a much higher o-zone start %? The comparative stats are a mixed bag, with each having some better, some not. Both are pretty comprable, and if I can be so bold to speak for most Sabres fans they're quite happy with Cozens and his progression. I doubt you'd find any that would swap players, just as I'd imagine I'd be hard pressed to find Rangers fans wanting to swap

Sadly, I don't have access to the stats that would allow me to answer those questions because I'm a mooch who doesn't pay for access to the various advanced stats sites. And you may very well be right that Sabres fans wouldn't trade Cozens for Kakko, but as I said earlier, you'll likely find yourselves alone in that.

It's hardly scientific, but: Kakko vs Cozens

The only (two) people who have voted Cozens thus far are Sabres fans.

Incidentally, I'd also appreciate it if certain Sabres fan(s) (not you) kept their mouths shut about "Rangers fans overrating their prospects". Stones, glass, houses...

 

[rangersfansince08]

Sadly, I don't have access to the stats that would allow me to answer those questions because I'm a mooch who doesn't pay for access to the various advanced stats sites. And you may very well be right that Sabres fans wouldn't trade Cozens for Kakko, but as I said earlier, you'll likely find yourselves alone in that.

It's hardly scientific, but: Kakko vs Cozens

The only (two) people who have voted Cozens thus far are Sabres fans.

Incidentally, I'd also appreciate it if certain Sabres fan(s) (not you) kept their mouths shut about "Rangers fans overrating their prospects". Stones, glass, houses...

We're the only fanbase that overrates their prospects. Nobody else does that. You know entitled NYC mentality and all

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Sadly, I don't have access to the stats that would allow me to answer those questions because I'm a mooch who doesn't pay for access to the various advanced stats sites. And you may very well be right that Sabres fans wouldn't trade Cozens for Kakko, but as I said earlier, you'll likely find yourselves alone in that.

It's hardly scientific, but: Kakko vs Cozens

The only (two) people who have voted Cozens thus far are Sabres fans.

Incidentally, I'd also appreciate it if certain Sabres fan(s) (not you) kept their mouths shut about "Rangers fans overrating their prospects". Stones, glass, houses...

Sabres fans have seen him develop this year and are quite happy with his progress. He's got a non-stop motor, doesn't back down from anyone, and will be at least a 2C for a long time.

Every fan base tends to overrate their prospects, unless the team neglects to draft the boards unanimous designated draftee ie Nylander over Provorov / Sergachev etc and Quinn over Rossi / Lundell.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I have seen a lot of d*ck measurement posts. But this beats them all.

And a Roget’s Famous Quote book

 

[tsujimoto74]

The question wasn't who is better strictly speaking, but rather who is more valuable.

But, since we're on the topic anyway, Kakko has substantially better relative possession metrics than Cozens across the board in all situations (both in aggregate and individually, notwithstanding shorthanded because neither player has played any significant minutes on the PK) including Corsi, Fenwick, Expected Goals, Scoring Chances and High-Danger Corsi.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Don't twist the argument now. You said they weren't even close. Justify that position, not the new one you just adopted after being challenged on it.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

A neutral fan here, NYR aren’t going to trade a mix of LaF, Fox, Kakko, 1st round picks etc. for an unsure injured Eichel and his cap. Eichel is a top young C and hopefully he comes back next season but there’s no reason for the Rangers to do this.

The Rangers in a season or two will be the Avalanche of the East. Panarin, Zibanajed, Fox etc. as well as a solid #1 goalie and all the young talented players making less than Eichel combined is amazing. No reason to take a chance on moving a chunk of that for Eichel.

Thank you for your common sense post. I don't want Eichel if it means giving up half of our young studs. You can keep him Buffalo. We will do fine without him.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

There is a Buffalo fan who actually thinks Laf + Fox + Lundkvist + 1st round pick + 2nd round pick is not enough to get Eichel.

Zib is good enough. Eichel is not enough of an improvement over Zib to give up four high end assets.

LOL. I want the drugs this guy is on.

 

[topshelf15]

Starting to wonder if the NYR really need him at this point....Their forwards dont seem to be an issue,maybe they look at the defense now??

 

[Rangerboy030]

Don't twist the argument now. You said they weren't even close. Justify that position, not the new one you just adopted after being challenged on it.

The metrics all point at the same answer - Kakko is a noticeably better player than Cozens. Further, Cozens has done nothing compared to Kakko to demonstrate that the assessments of their relative ability and potential at the time of their drafting was errant. And it seems the popular opinion on these boards is that Kakko is more valuable and that it's not particularly close between them either.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Sad.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Or, more likely, is just overrating his own teams' guys. I mean, Cozens is the same age as Kakko, just as productive, and plays the more valuable position, yet apparently he's not even close in value because idk...pre-draft hype? Everything the Rangers touch is simply gold?

Or maybe neither of you actually watch Kakko, as if you did, you’d know that Kakko is one of the league leaders in takeaways and is actually one of the better young defensive forwards in the league after being horrendous defensively as a rookie.

Don’t mind Jesper Fast being in there, but Kakko’s advanced metrics both offensively and defensively are great.

 

[Taluss]

Forever Blueshirts isn’t a legitimate source at all. The guy who runs it is a clout chasing clown. He was the one pushing the Gaudreau to NYR rumors, which were complete bullshit.

The Eichel to NYR rumors came from Dreger. He was the one who reported that Adams and Gorton spoke about Eichel.

Good to know, cheers. However the reason I linked that article is because he mentioned what Friedman and Mackenzie said which I know have been said by them. Didn’t realize there was more stuff from Dreger though.

 

[Circus86]

LOL. I want the drugs this guy is on.

How about this one:

Buch is a 3rd liner in Buffalo both short term and long term

 

[tsujimoto74]

The metrics all point at the same answer - Kakko is a noticeably better player than Cozens. Further, Cozens has done nothing compared to Kakko to demonstrate that the assessments of their relative ability and potential at the time of their drafting was errant. And it seems the popular opinion on these boards is that Kakko is more valuable and that it's not particularly close between them either.

So, as I speculated, your answer is, in fact, largely because pre-draft hype?

 

[Rangerboy030]

So, as I speculated, your answer is, in fact, largely because pre-draft hype?

Sure, if you completely ignore the points about Kakko's superior metrics and the survey of HFBoard's brain trust.

 

[TBF1972]

Sure, if you completely ignore the points about Kakko's superior metrics and the survey of HFBoard's brain trust.

 

[Hasekperreault23]

Thank you for your common sense post. I don't want Eichel if it means giving up half of our young studs. You can keep him Buffalo. We will do fine without him.

Thank you I feel the same don't want to trade Eichel

 

[cwede]

Cozens is a wonderful player, there is no need to knock him,
but NYR wouldn't move any of their 7 recent 1st round picks for him,
they like these guys they have (and Lias was already moved to LA).
Cozens may have some seasons where he outscores Kakko, maybe not, but KK's presence, all-round game, and offense upside, are already showing.

Eichel can be a great, top 10 NHL center, but the current injury situation,
added to his monstrous Cap Hit, AND sky-high acquisition cost,
makes him an easy pass for NYR

I get that NYR's long standing history, of bringing in top NHL forwards, makes everyone expect it to continue. But (a) Panarin is that guy for NYR now, and
(b) Bread's Cap Hit, coupled with that of Trouba and Kreider, and
(c) with many guys due to get pricy extensions soon - Buch, Zib, Shesty, Fox, most notably -
add to why, Cap-wise, it cannot be Eichel that NYR add

NYR got Zib, in '16, having just turned 23, after 4 NHL seasons, 5 years after his 2011 drafting 6thOA
If they go outside for a C, they should do the same again,

Look for a C highly drafted '14, '15, '16, '17, NHL-established and with high upside,
but not yet a superstar, so not yet carrying massive Cap Hit, or acquisition cost

 

[Rangerboy030]

Quite. But if you or anyone else has the ear of NHL front office staff or pro scouts or some other more reputable source, I'm all ears.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Any bite on this?

Meier
Merkley
Robins
2021 1st
2022 2nd

Basically three firsts in Meier/Merkley/1st and two seconds Robins/2nd

 

[JoemAvs]

Sure, if you completely ignore the points about Kakko's superior metrics and the survey of HFBoard's brain trust.

Kakko is still nowhere near where he should be offensively. Neither is Cozens for that matter but he was always expected to take longer..

IMO the biggest issue with hfboards and their evaluation is still how massively most people underestimate the value gap between wingers and centers/defensemen....

Kakko is still the better and more talented player but a smart GM would still rather bet on Cozens (provided you are confident he stays at C longterm) going forward and value him higher after what we have seen from both...


This league is all about centers and defensemen. IMO if most of your ressources are tied to the wing, you are screwed longterm. Rangers might have accumulated enough overall talent to overcome this but once they have to pay the likes of Zibanejad or Fox, they will have to make some tough decisions.
Gorton would probably love to trade some wingers for quality Cs right now. But nobody is helping him out unless he massively overpays. Will be interesting to watch going forward...

 

[bernmeister]

Kakko is still nowhere near where he should be offensively. Neither is Cozens for that matter but he was always expected to take longer..

IMO the biggest issue with hfboards and their evaluation is still how massively most people underestimate the value gap between wingers and centers/defensemen....

Kakko is still the better and more talented player but a smart GM would still rather bet on Cozens (provided you are confident he stays at C longterm) going forward and value him higher after what we have seen from both...


This league is all about centers and defensemen. IMO if most of your ressources are tied to the wing, you are screwed longterm. Rangers might have accumulated enough overall talent to overcome this but once they have to pay the likes of Zibanejad or Fox, they will have to make some tough decisions.
Gorton would probably love to trade some wingers for quality Cs right now. But nobody is helping him out unless he massively overpays. Will be interesting to watch going forward...

The bold is an opinion.

They are both fine players any team lucky to have either.

There is an adage in sports.
IF IF IF IF
everything else [hand-eye coordination/etc.] is equal then
USUALLY
the good big man beats the good little man

It is reasonable to think the ceiling for Kakko maybe Ovechkin lite.
In that context, no fault on holding him.

Also, he has focused on other facets of the game while roster has turnover, = line changes.
Put him on same line w/Kravtsov + Panarin and watch the pts flow.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

How about this one:

There must be something in the water.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

There is an adage in sports.
IF IF IF IF
everything else [hand-eye coordination/etc.] is equal then
USUALLY
the good big man beats the good little man

It is reasonable to think the ceiling for Kakko maybe Ovechkin lite.
In that context, no fault on holding him.

They're both listed at 6'3

 

[Gabrielor]

Pass. Thanks.

NYR doesn't have the center prospect we'd want back.