Elks: Edmonton Eskimos 2019 v5

[MoontoScott]

Just to bring it back to football....I dont think its an overstatement to suggest that this upcoming game is a season defining game for this team. They have to start beating the better teams in the League and that has to start in this game.
I have never believed the narrative that Maas is some kind of offensive genius...never understoot how or why that was even a consideration.
That said he doesnt need to be that this Saturday...he just needs to show that he adjust and actually out coach a quality HC in Dave Dickenson.
This is a statement game for this team on offence and defence.

I would love to sit in on team meetings and see what real influence the "official" offensive coordinator has in terms of game design and play calling. I wonder if poor Jordan must feel a bit left out sometimes? Was he ever a pro football player?

 

[Barrsy]

That was appropriate

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I don’t think it’s as unusual as you think. Passing yards have always been a misleading stat in football because teams that are losing football games need to pass the ball to get back in games and teams already winning prefer to run the ball to kill the clock.

I don’t think it’s much of a mystery at all. They couldn’t finish drives because teams were pressuring Harris into mistakes in the red zone. He couldn’t handle it and the league has figured it out. What we’re starting to see more of now is increased pressure and Harris not being able to move the ball much at all. I suspect it’ll get even worse for him.

how is this any different then what happened to Reilly last year?
the difference being Reilly would get blown up for a loss or run for 2 yards

 

[rboomercat90]

I think it’s pretty rare for the a QB to lead the league by the margins he has and struggle so much to get TD’s. Like he’s over 1000 yards past the 2nd place guy.

He’s had the benefit of every other starter in the league outside of Reilly missing significant time due to injury. Combine that with what I said in my previous post and the mystery is solved pretty quickly. Can you honestly say he’s looked good in any of the games not involving BC (1-9) and Toronto (1-9) this year?

 

[rboomercat90]

how is this any different then what happened to Reilly last year?
the difference being Reilly would get blown up for a loss or run for 2 yards

I don’t understand your question.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I don’t understand your question.

I guess I'm asking...do you think Harris is "too scared" to make a play in the red zone?

cause I don't think so, since Reilly had the same struggles as Harris is having this year

the common denominator here is Maas

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Too mad about yesterday to go back and read through the comments. But they are officially in trouble. The defense deserves their share of criticism as they can't seem to stop the run even against a below average run team like Calgary, but the offense is officially into meltdown.

So far this season, the Eskimos offense has ZERO touchdowns against any Western team currently in the playoffs when they scrimmage the ball on the oppositions side of the field. This feeble stat is over a 4 game sample. No team can claim to have a strong offense and put that kind of statistic up.

(edited to add: Sorry it was pointed out that they did get a 26 yarder in the first Calgary game. However, in the same vein, they haven't scored a major from the red zone against a team currently in a playoff spot since Game 1 vs. Montreal. 9 consecutive fails. Overall they are 2-12 against playoff teams at converting in the red zone.)

If they can't grind out a touchdown against a good western opponent, they have no chance of getting a playoff spot in the West and may be at risk at losing the cross over to Ottawa as they still have 3 more games against the good Western opponents and 2 more against a pretty strong Hamilton team in the East and another game head to head against the RedBlacks in Ottawa. Meanwhile, Ottawa has 3 games against Toronto and 2 against BC in their final 8 games.

Factoring all of that in, with probable results over the next few weeks, Edmonton and Ottawa could very well be tied going into that matchup in 4 weeks. Between now and then, Edmonton plays Calgary (who just outclassed them) and Hamilton (9-2). Ottawa plays Toronto 1-9 and then back to back vs. BC (1-9).

Though playoffs seemed a certainty only two weeks ago, it can change really quick unless the team can shake off these jitters against the teams at the top of the league.

Yeah, I was having a good look at the schedule yesterday as well. I pretty much took it for granted that four western teams are making the playoffs, but honestly like you say, it's not actually out of the question that Ottawa could run us down. BC and Toronto are bad to begin with, and they'll have nothing at stake in any of those games against the Redblacks. Ottawa could quite reasonably still end up with 8 wins. And no guarantees we manage to go 3-4 over our last seven with five tough opponents. I think we still hang on, but I have a feeling we might look back at that defensive stand at our 10 yard line to save the win against Ottawa three weeks ago as the event that allowed us to cling onto the crossover when it's all said and done.

 

[trick91]

Looks like its crossover or another year without playoffs. And we cant be tied with Ottawa either to get the crossover, has to be definitive.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I guess I'm asking...do you think Harris is "too scared" to make a play in the red zone?

cause I don't think so, since Reilly had the same struggles as Harris is having this year

the common denominator here is Maas

Harris is too nervous in the red zone. His execution of the plays is poor. Its like its been such a thing in his career that its a constant source of tension. That he tightens up in redzone and just impulsively forces the ball quickly into spots. Watch how often he will just throw at a covered receiver when he actually has time and the opponent isn't blitzing.

Other teams scheme to this too. They simply drop back in cover. They know that Harris is zero threat to scamper to endzone, they know Gable is useless, so they just drop back in coverage. They don't even have to rush Harris because they know he'll force a ball anyway within 3 steamboats. He NEVER waits or holds onto the ball. An opponent can rush 2-3 and all is fine. Sometimes they even get him rushing that many.

Watch for it. Watch opponents simply outnumber in coverage because they have nothing else to worry about when we get in redzone.

Alternately Reilly generates many more TD's in his career through his pass or run capability. Reilly also opens up the run more as teams have to be concerned that he or the RB can run. Similar to how Streveler and Harris were so effective running against us.

Think about that Gable was better, when Reilly was a running threat because of the QB option. We don't have that now.

The importance of a QB that can run in the CFL is chronically understated. Its huge.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Simpler comment. If I'm coaching Harris I'm telling him to hang onto the ball in redzone. WAIT. Its so blatantly obvious he has happy feet there and can't wait to get the ball away. Its like he's so nervous he can't hold on. Strangest thing. I would make him take 5 secs to allow a receiver to get open, for defenders to get tired. He plays redzone as if theres a delay of game penalty if you don't get the ball away immediately. I prefer a QB with the confidence to take their time, roll out, scramble a little. Create something.

 

[joestevens29]

Simpler comment. If I'm coaching Harris I'm telling him to hang onto the ball in redzone. WAIT. Its so blatantly obvious he has happy feet there and can't wait to get the ball away. Its like he's so nervous he can't hold on. Strangest thing. I would make him take 5 secs to allow a receiver to get open, for defenders to get tired. He plays redzone as if theres a delay of game penalty if you don't get the ball away immediately. I prefer a QB with the confidence to take their time, roll out, scramble a little. Create something.

Gregor had a couple good points. One CGY was taking away his first look and then Harris was pretty much with the play. If he doesn't have a chance to read the plays quicker it's going to be the same thing Saturday.

That and we don't have a guy that is catching those tough passes. At some point someone has to be able to make some good plays when covered.

Gregor suggested going to Daniels more in these situations.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Gregor had a couple good points. One CGY was taking away his first look and then Harris was pretty much with the play. If he doesn't have a chance to read the plays quicker it's going to be the same thing Saturday.

That and we don't have a guy that is catching those tough passes. At some point someone has to be able to make some good plays when covered.

Gregor suggested going to Daniels more in these situations.

Its an astute point. We don't really have many strong 50/50 receivers. Collins, despite his yards isn't that, he gets a lot of open stuff, and not sure what ever happened to Ellingson who has some big games against weak teams but is often invisible. he was so often Harris first target. He just doesn't seem to get open.

 

[joestevens29]

Its an astute point. We don't really have many strong 50/50 receivers. Collins, despite his yards isn't that, he gets a lot of open stuff, and not sure what ever happened to Ellingson who has some big games against weak teams but is often invisible. he was so often Harris first target. He just doesn't seem to get open.

That's really a problem though, especially when you get into the red zone.

It's not like it's just one issue with the red zone, it appears to be numerous. Maas not calling right plays, Harris not picking up second reads, no game changing receiver, running back not being able to break out for a long play.

 

[rboomercat90]

I guess I'm asking...do you think Harris is "too scared" to make a play in the red zone?

cause I don't think so, since Reilly had the same struggles as Harris is having this year

the common denominator here is Maas

I think he’s too scared to play anywhere. I think the problem first showed up in the red zone because teams weren’t putting as much pressure on him until the Eskimos got there. What we’ve seen in the last few weeks though is teams putting that pressure on him everywhere on the field and as a result he’s having trouble moving the ball at all.

He isn’t the only issue as I’ve previously stated. Gable has been awful too and hasn’t taken the pressure off him at all. My opinion on Maas has been well documented. Picking one over the other to blame shouldn’t be used to absolve the rest. All three are huge problems that aren’t solutions moving forward. I jumped into this debate because I thought a lot of posters were overlooking Harris’s shortcomings.

As for Reilly having the same issues last year, I think it’s the same thing. His level of play had dropped off too and he had the same lousy running back and the same lousy coach that weren’t helping. Him getting away from Maas hasn’t improved his game because he isn’t the same player he used to be anymore.

 

[joestevens29]

He isn’t the only issue as I’ve previously stated. Gable has been awful too and hasn’t taken the pressure off him at all.

Gable just doesn't seem like a threat. Has one of the lower longest rushes of the year at 34 yards. His YPC is also quite low at 5 yards.

Teams just don't have to worry about our rush game which then makes it that much harder for Harris.

 

[joestevens29]

And what is with pro coaching in Edmonton, we just struggle as a whole to find something that is better than average.

 

[guymez]

I think he’s too scared to play anywhere. I think the problem first showed up in the red zone because teams weren’t putting as much pressure on him until the Eskimos got there. What we’ve seen in the last few weeks though is teams putting that pressure on him everywhere on the field and as a result he’s having trouble moving the ball at all.

He isn’t the only issue as I’ve previously stated. Gable has been awful too and hasn’t taken the pressure off him at all. My opinion on Maas has been well documented. Picking one over the other to blame shouldn’t be used to absolve the rest. All three are huge problems that aren’t solutions moving forward. I jumped into this debate because I thought a lot of posters were overlooking Harris’s shortcomings.

As for Reilly having the same issues last year, I think it’s the same thing. His level of play had dropped off too and he had the same lousy running back and the same lousy coach that weren’t helping. Him getting away from Maas hasn’t improved his game because he isn’t the same player he used to be anymore.

I think if you take a step back from this you would realize just how silly it is.
There isnt a QB in the League that does well under pressure.
As a matter of fact that is the formula for disrupting a QB.
Harris is no different.

 

[rboomercat90]

I think if you take a step back from this you would realize just how silly it is.
There isnt a QB in the League that does well under pressure.
As a matter of fact that is the formula for disrupting a QB.
Harris is no different.

I’ll keep watching to try and figure out what he’s doing well.

 

[guymez]

I’ll keep watching to try and figure out what he’s doing well.

I think that there is a correlation between the lack of a run game and the lack of red zone scoring. Once that defence doesnt have to concern itself with the run game the QB is in trouble.
Not sure whats up with Gable but he has been quite ineffective the past few games.

I really thing they need to give Cooper a chance. That said I am sure Maas wont do that. It doesnt fit with his thick headed approach to calling the red zone offensive schemes.

 

[Stoneman89]

I think it's the play calling in the red zone that is the main issue. They've had the same issues in the past, but had top notch receivers and long bombs to mask it. Many of their TD's the last few years have been longer passes, which take the red zone out of the equation. And then you had Reilly at his best, able to take off and move the ball down there when options were taken away. But we also saw a deterioration of Mike last year, with either the inability or lack of desire to put his body on the line anymore and charge up the field, and it seems to have carried over to this year with the Lions.

The Stampeders under Dickenson and Hufnagel always seem to produce some beautiful game plans, which takes pressure of BLM and have receivers popping up uncovered all over the place.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Running game works better in Redzone when you have a QB that is also a running threat. That way theres a lot of options to cover. The Esks are going to pass in redzone nearly every time, have no threat running, either RB or QB, and the passes are forced in.

Part of it personnel, but part of it is Harris executing poorly in redzone. You can see it from himself, how many times he's pointing at himself for a poor play in the redzone. He's real frustrated in there and its getting worse.

 

[Stoneman89]

I think that there is a correlation between the lack of a run game and the lack of red zone scoring. Once that defence doesnt have to concern itself with the run game the QB is in trouble.
Not sure whats up with Gable but he has been quite ineffective the past few games.

I really thing they need to give Cooper a chance. That said I am sure Maas wont do that. It doesnt fit with his thick headed approach to calling the red zone offensive schemes.

I think it's becoming obvious that Gable is headed into "Reilly" territory, in that he's heading downhill in terms of his skill and speed, and desire to take punishment. I'm not sure how long Maas can look the other way when the stats are clearly damning that Gable is not getting it done, and he has another option available. And by extension, how long can Sunderland sit back there and watch all his hard off season work go into the shitter.

 

[joestevens29]

I think it's the play calling in the red zone that is the main issue. They've had the same issues in the past, but had top notch receivers and long bombs to mask it. Many of their TD's the last few years have been longer passes, which take the red zone out of the equation. And then you had Reilly at his best, able to take off and move the ball down there when options were taken away. But we also saw a deterioration of Mike last year, with either the inability or lack of desire to put his body on the line anymore and charge up the field, and it seems to have carried over to this year with the Lions.

The Stampeders under Dickenson and Hufnagel always seem to produce some beautiful game plans, which takes pressure of BLM and have receivers popping up uncovered all over the place.

This is the scary thing for me. Even if the Esks figured out what they were doing wrong and fix the issue I see two scenarios playing out

1. CGY is prepared for it as they already know what works against the Esks, so they are already coming up with a plan B
or
2. We actually get a couple red zone td's in the first half only to see CGY make adjustments and us completely fall flat in the 2nd half.

 

[Stoneman89]

Running game works better in Redzone when you have a QB that is also a running threat. That way theres a lot of options to cover. The Esks are going to pass in redzone nearly every time, have no threat running, either RB or QB, and the passes are forced in.

Part of it personnel, but part of it is Harris executing poorly in redzone. You can see it from himself, how many times he's pointing at himself for a poor play in the redzone. He's real frustrated in there and its getting worse.

The Bombers are pretty good in the redzone, and their starter is a guy that won't strike fear into many defenders with his feet.But having Andrew Harris to feed the ball to, sure helps.

Saying that, if you can have both running back and QB that can move the ball with their legs, it does present some problems for the defence. With Winnipeg, I'm still not convinced Streveler is much of a threat through the air at this point, so if you can stop the run, you have a good chance to neutralize him.

 

[guymez]

I think it's the play calling in the red zone that is the main issue. They've had the same issues in the past, but had top notch receivers and long bombs to mask it. Many of their TD's the last few years have been longer passes, which take the red zone out of the equation. And then you had Reilly at his best, able to take off and move the ball down there when options were taken away. But we also saw a deterioration of Mike last year, with either the inability or lack of desire to put his body on the line anymore and charge up the field, and it seems to have carried over to this year with the Lions.

The Stampeders under Dickenson and Hufnagel always seem to produce some beautiful game plans, which takes pressure of BLM and have receivers popping up uncovered all over the place.

I agree on all points.
Maas is the problem here...I am convinced of that. Replace Harris with another QB and the offence will regress just like it did under Reilly.