Confirmed Signing with Link: [EDM] G Jack Campbell signs with the Oilers (5 years, $5M AAV)

[Divine]

Maybe no one will agree that the pacific is stronger than the Atlantic. But that wasn’t even my argument. Here’s something everyone will agree with, using divisional differences to excuse away your teams historic playoff failure can be see as a pathetic coping mechanism.

Yes, I agree, the Leafs playoff success is concerning.

But divisions are their own bubble. A stronger division is harder to win a round in than an easier division.

So if Tampa or Boston fans say the Leafs are worse than them, there's merit. However when a team from a weaker division, who always loses the season series to the Leafs for the last decade argue they're a better team because they had a weaker opponent, that's where the conversations get convoluted.

It's hard to argue that all playoff teams are equal, because many times it's just the result of the draw. Tampa had a harder time in the first round than they did in the second and third last year. Only the teams that constantly beat you, or win your own playoff division are better than you.

When comparing two different divisions, it's much tougher to argue we're better than you because we beat a weaker team than you.

So basically you're knocking Edmonton because when they played a contender last year they lost, and only had success against bad teams.

So can you explain to me the difference between that and the Leafs failing to beat contenders in 4 of the last 6 years? Or failing to beat weaker teams in Montreal and Columbus in the other two?

Like, what's the actual difference here? Would you rather hang your hat on a 7 game series loss than a third round appearance and a sweep? Honestly? Everyone knows your schtick, but do you seriously believe in the massively flawed, backasswards logic you're trying to use for one team and not the other?

No, I'm not knocking Edmonton for losing to a contender, i'm knocking them for getting swept. As a divisional winner, if your division isn't completely weak, you should at least be competitive. Maybe win 1 out of 4 games, is that a lot to ask?

I am knocking them for not winning a game. Any team can go out there and get swept. Nashville got swept too, are we arguing they only lost because it was Colorado and they would have won the Pacific too? St. Louis was winning the series before they lost their starting goalie, that's a competitive series.

 

[GOilers88]

Yes, I agree, the Leafs playoff success is concerning.

But divisions are their own bubble. A stronger division is harder to win a round in than an easier division.

So if Tampa or Boston fans say the Leafs are worse than them, there's merit. However when a team from a weaker division, who always loses the season series to the Leafs for the last decade argue they're a better team because they had a weaker opponent, that's where the conversations get convoluted.

It's hard to argue that all playoff teams are equal, because many times it's just the result of the draw. Tampa had a harder time in the first round than they did in the second and third last year. So the teams that constantly beat you, or win your own playoff division are better than you.

When comparing two different divisions, it's much tougher to argue we're better than you because we beat a weaker team than you.



No, I'm not knocking Edmonton for losing to a contender, i'm knocking them for getting swept. As a divisional winner, if your division isn't completely weak, you should at least be competitive. Maybe win 1 out of 4 games, is that a lot to ask?

I am knocking them for not winning a game. Any team can go out there and get swept. Nashville got swept too, are we arguing they only lost because it was Colorado and they would have won the Pacific too? St. Louis was winning the series before they lost their starting goalie, that's a competitive series.

Okay, so the Leafs are better because of regular seasons and winning some games, but ultimately still losing every series against any contender they play?

Sweep or 7 games. It's no different. A series loss is a series loss. You're basically taking the Handshake Respect route here. If that's how you want to go, power to you.

You also still completely avoided acknowledging that unlike the Oilers who had to beat "weaker" teams to even make it to the third round, the Leafs were unable to do the same against Montreal and Columbus. Leafs played in a really weak North division, yet were unable to beat a fellow North team to advance, but somehow are still better than a team who beat two of their own weaker opponents to advance to the third round.

You're willfully choosing to ignore your own thought process for the Oilers when it comes to the Leafs. I don't even care about who is better, I just wish people would think about what they say before they say it. Or at least try harder when trolling.

 

[KaosKommando]

Me being right? Cool.

While you're mostly wrong, I think you're mostly "right".

 

[HofT]

It’s luck but it also isn’t. You guys don’t have your “starter” cause he’s an injury plagued sieve.


I’m in an Oilers signing thread that’s been invaded by Leafs fans, it shouldn’t be a surprise that Leafs goaltending comes up as a subject when this is Leafs fans new favorite thread.

Murray certainly is, and so is Campbell. So, what could Dubas really do in the offseason? You can say he strengthened the goalie situation by adding Samsonov as a 1B.

In hindsight it's probably best to have just kept Andersen a couple years back but Campbell did outplay him. He was better. And now it's unfortunate they're both gone. Certainly can blame Dubas's cap management, but at he same time the cap should be higher right now. It is what it is.

If you're annoyed about Leafs fans commenting on Campbells performance, then I agree. In the end, mostly all Leafs fans wanted Campbell back.

 

[TheNumber4]

Yes, I agree, the Leafs playoff success is concerning.

But divisions are their own bubble. A stronger division is harder to win a round in than an easier division.

So if Tampa or Boston fans say the Leafs are worse than them, there's merit. However when a team from a weaker division, who always loses the season series to the Leafs for the last decade argue they're a better team because they had a weaker opponent, that's where the conversations get convoluted.

It's hard to argue that all playoff teams are equal, because many times it's just the result of the draw. Tampa had a harder time in the first round than they did in the second and third last year. Only the teams that constantly beat you, or win your own playoff division are better than you.

When comparing two different divisions, it's much tougher to argue we're better than you because we beat a weaker team than you.

I see you have spent an extremely long time thinking about these divisional differences. The cope is well-formed. I won't attempt to stop you anymore if you think this is the right way to handle the Leafs playoffs failure.

 

[Divine]

Okay, so the Leafs are better because of regular seasons and winning some games, but ultimately still losing every series against any contender they play?

Sweep or 7 games. It's no different. A series loss is a series loss. You're basically taking the Handshake Respect route here. If that's how you want to go, power to you.

You also still completely avoided acknowledging that unlike the Oilers who had to beat "weaker" teams to even make it to the third round, the Leafs were unable to do the same against Montreal and Columbus. Leafs played in a really weak North division, yet were unable to beat a fellow North team to advance, but somehow are still better than a team who beat two of their own weaker opponents to advance to the third round.

You're willfully choosing to ignore your own thought process for the Oilers when it comes to the Leafs. I don't even care about who is better, I just wish people would think about what they say before they say it. Or at least try harder when trolling.

Yes, I think the Leafs are a better team than the Oilers.

That's all I'm saying. Do I think the Leafs are better than Tampa or Boston? No.

Do you realize the 'weak' Montreal Canadiens that the Leafs lost to in 7 games, went on to sweep the Winnipeg Jets, who swept the Oilers in the round prior? That's another case for the Leafs being stronger than the Oilers, not weaker.

You saying the Leafs couldn't beat the Montreal Canadiens does not make the Oilers stronger, because Montreal swept the team that swept the Oilers.

Then, you bring up the Columbus series, which, in my opinion is a bit of a reach because now we're going back 3 seasons to argue that Edmonton is better. Who did Edmonton lose to that year, the 12th place Chicago Blackhawks in a play in? Chicago was the lowest seed in the West in an extended playoff. A much lower seed than Columbus.

The Leafs losing to teams everyone would agree are better than the Oilers does not make the Oilers better than the Leafs.

 

[Rafafouille]

1100+ posts, 1000 of people arguing for or against the Leafs. Absolutely pathetic.


Strong game by soup, hopefully he keeps it up, like the guy. Would love for him to prove the haters wrong and help McJesus bring the cup home.

 

[GOilers88]

Yes, I think the Leafs are a better team than the Oilers.

That's all I'm saying. Do I think the Leafs are better than Tampa or Boston? No.

Do you realize the 'weak' Montreal Canadiens that the Leafs lost to in 7 games, went on to sweep the Winnipeg Jets, who swept the Oilers in the round prior? That's another case for the Leafs being stronger than the Oilers, not weaker.

You saying the Leafs couldn't beat the Montreal Canadiens does not make the Oilers stronger, because Montreal swept the team that swept the Oilers.

Then, you bring up the Columbus series, which, in my opinion is a bit of a reach because now we're going back 3 seasons to argue that Edmonton is better. Who did Edmonton lose to that year, the 12th place Chicago Blackhawks in a play in? Chicago was the lowest seed in the West in an extended playoff. A much lower seed than Columbus.

The Leafs losing to teams everyone would agree are better than the Oilers does not make the Oilers better than the Leafs.

You're a hell of a gymnast.

 

[TFHockey]

Campbell was excellent last night against Tampa Bay.

 

[North Cole]

Yes, I think the Leafs are a better team than the Oilers.

That's all I'm saying. Do I think the Leafs are better than Tampa or Boston? No.

Do you realize the 'weak' Montreal Canadiens that the Leafs lost to in 7 games, went on to sweep the Winnipeg Jets, who swept the Oilers in the round prior? That's another case for the Leafs being stronger than the Oilers, not weaker.

You saying the Leafs couldn't beat the Montreal Canadiens does not make the Oilers stronger, because Montreal swept the team that swept the Oilers.

Then, you bring up the Columbus series, which, in my opinion is a bit of a reach because now we're going back 3 seasons to argue that Edmonton is better. Who did Edmonton lose to that year, the 12th place Chicago Blackhawks in a play in? Chicago was the lowest seed in the West in an extended playoff. A much lower seed than Columbus.

The Leafs losing to teams everyone would agree are better than the Oilers does not make the Oilers better than the Leafs.

But neither does it make us worse which is ultimately the point that no one seems to understand. There's 32 teams in the league, some teams play better against other teams, some strengths work better against other strengths and some teams expose your weaknesses more.

Unless two teams physically pit it out in a 7 game series, you have absolutely no clue which team is going to hypotherically win, if you did, you'd be a billionaire like Biff. It's pure supposition that team A beating team B after B beat C means that A beats C. Oilers have a rock-paper-scissors relationship with Nashville and Minnesota. We absolutely demolish Nashville, who regularly thumps Minnesota, who we in turn beat once every 15 years. There's no way to definitely say which team is better according to your 'who beats who' method. Minnesota for example got trucked in the playoffs against the Blues, they fed the East their lunch last year going 23-5-4. Are we to assume they go deep in the playoffs if they play out East? Doubt it.

At the end of the day, some divisions are 'weaker' than others and some conferences have 'stronger' teams than others but it's not as significant as this board wants to believe. The GA/GF per game between the divisions is pretty well even by years end. You can look at it any way you want to get whatever narrative you want:

- Pacific had a lower top end in points at year end and the race for the playoffs came down to the end? Must be that the teams are all average or bad.
- East playoff race was over at Valentines day? Must be that the bottom 8 teams are the worst we've ever seen and the top teams only have lots of points because of how shit everyone else was.

I doubt either narrative is all that accurate.

 

[Tarmore]

He put one injury riddled goalie in net. Then he put a soft as shit team in front of the other leading to a Knee breaking breakaway. It all adds up.

I know you are no rocket surgeon, but it was a penalty shot! How do you think those go?!? (Edit: clarification looks a lot like a breakaway for those playing at home, incase you didn't know)

People on here sometimes, just LOL

 

[Oilslick941611]

Yes, I think the Leafs are a better team than the Oilers.

That's all I'm saying. Do I think the Leafs are better than Tampa or Boston? No.

Do you realize the 'weak' Montreal Canadiens that the Leafs lost to in 7 games, went on to sweep the Winnipeg Jets, who swept the Oilers in the round prior? That's another case for the Leafs being stronger than the Oilers, not weaker.

You saying the Leafs couldn't beat the Montreal Canadiens does not make the Oilers stronger, because Montreal swept the team that swept the Oilers.

Then, you bring up the Columbus series, which, in my opinion is a bit of a reach because now we're going back 3 seasons to argue that Edmonton is better. Who did Edmonton lose to that year, the 12th place Chicago Blackhawks in a play in? Chicago was the lowest seed in the West in an extended playoff. A much lower seed than Columbus.

The Leafs losing to teams everyone would agree are better than the Oilers does not make the Oilers better than the Leafs.

you're using the "transitive property" ( x beat y and y beat z therefore x is better than z) here and using it wrong. It doesn't exist in sports, because if it did exist, Edmonton made it to the final 4 last year while the leafs lost in the first round, therefore by your own logic Edmonton is a better team than Toronto.

 

[Divine]

you're using the "transitive property" ( x beat y and y beat z therefore x is better than z) here and using it wrong. It doesn't exist in sports, because if it did exist, Edmonton made it to the final 4 last year while the leafs lost in the first round, therefore by your own logic Edmonton is a better team than Toronto.

That's exactly what I'm not using.

Not all rounds are equal. Tampa is tougher than anyone Edmonton didn't get swept by, I don't think there's any debate there.

Florida - won the President's Trophy
Tampa - won back to back Cups
Toronto - 4th overall in the NHL

They had to play each other in order to advance.

 

[Oilslick941611]

That's exactly what I'm not using.

Not all rounds are equal. Tampa is tougher than anyone Edmonton didn't get swept by.

no its exactly what you are using. Are you claiming that the team that wins the cup doesn't deserve it because not every round is equal?

Not every schedule is equal either, so the standings are also an inaccurate way of seeing who the better teams are?

Divisons aren't equal either, Some have a lot more cannon fodder than others so doesn't this mean teams in the east are weaker because they get to beat up Buffalo, New Jersey, and Ottawa last year?

What does this mean for individual awards? Matthews Rocket should come under scrutiny since he got to play buffalo, Montreal, Ottawa and New Jersey more than McDavid and Draisaitl?

See how stupid all this sounds?

Last year, the Oilers were better than the leafs

 

[Dempsey]

Yes, I think the Leafs are a better team than the Oilers.

That's all I'm saying. Do I think the Leafs are better than Tampa or Boston? No.

Do you realize the 'weak' Montreal Canadiens that the Leafs lost to in 7 games, went on to sweep the Winnipeg Jets, who swept the Oilers in the round prior? That's another case for the Leafs being stronger than the Oilers, not weaker.

You saying the Leafs couldn't beat the Montreal Canadiens does not make the Oilers stronger, because Montreal swept the team that swept the Oilers.

Then, you bring up the Columbus series, which, in my opinion is a bit of a reach because now we're going back 3 seasons to argue that Edmonton is better. Who did Edmonton lose to that year, the 12th place Chicago Blackhawks in a play in? Chicago was the lowest seed in the West in an extended playoff. A much lower seed than Columbus.

The Leafs losing to teams everyone would agree are better than the Oilers does not make the Oilers better than the Leafs.

Your points are reasonably thought-out and I don't disagree with all of them, but you can't tell me you'd rather have your Leafs go out in the first round every year than make it to the conference finals.

 

[Divine]

no its exactly what you are using. Are you claiming that the team that wins the cup doesn't deserve it because not every round is equal?

Not every schedule is equal either, so the standings are also an inaccurate way of seeing who the better teams are?

Divisons aren't equal either, Some have a lot more cannon fodder than others so doesn't this mean teams in the east are weaker because they get to beat up Buffalo, New Jersey, and Ottawa last year?

What does this mean for individual awards? Matthews Rocket should come under scrutiny since he got to play buffalo, Montreal, Ottawa and New Jersey more than McDavid and Draisaitl?

See how stupid all this sounds?

Last year, the Oilers were better than the leafs

I disagree.

The Cup winner is the one team that can be compared to everyone, because they beat the top teams in another division and another conference.

Divisions are not equal, that's why the old format did not have divisions playing each other. They're only in place for travel, and 'rivalries' not for competitive balance.

The Leafs swept Edmonton last year, beating LA and Calgary doesn't make Edmonton automatically better. That makes no sense.

Your points are reasonably thought-out and I don't disagree with all of them, but you can't tell me you'd rather have your Leafs go out in the first round every year than make it to the conference finals.

Of course not, I'm in favour of going back to the old 1-8 format.

Last year, the Leafs finished 4th overall in the NHL. They get rewarded by playing the 7th overall NHL team in the first round.

On the flip side,

The Oilers finished 11th in the NHL, they got to play the 14th overall team with home ice.

The Conference format was:
--
Toronto (3) vs Tampa Bay (5)


Edmonton (5) vs Los Angeles (6) while also having:
Minnesota (2) vs St. Louis (4)

It doesn't make sense. Are we arguing Edmonton was a better team than Minnesota because they won a round despite finishing lower in the standings and facing weaker competition than Toronto and Minnesota?

 

[JumpierPegasus]

Wrong thread

 

[HockeyVirus]

Campbell was excellent last night against Tampa Bay.

Of course he can be a good goalie. The problem is that what Oilers fans have seen is the real him. He might get hot, but when the pressure is on he is going to be giving up those weak goals. He isn't a goalie you can count on to make a game winning save consistently.

Wouldn't even be surprised to see him go on a rip of .940 or above for a few weeks here. Oilers fans should be used to hot and cold goalies.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Another rough outing for Campbell. I honestly feel awful for this guy he went to probably the worst team he could of outside of Toronto and Montreal. If he had signed somewhere like Carolina he would have had a real shot but in the fish bowl of Edmonton, poor guy.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Just Robidas Island him ASAP

 

[archangel2]

quickly becoming the worst contract in the league

 

[HockeyVirus]

quickly becoming the worst contract in the league

It was bad before the ink dried for anyone who knew the player. Leafs and Oilers fans kind of have a thing so thought we were just being salty. But nope most Leaf fans saw this coming. Hell I posted this one of the first replies to the signing

Good luck Soup. Outstanding person.

That said, this contract is abhorrent and I am glad it was not us to signed it. He's a backup at best. Oilers fans will learn.

 

[genk]

You absolutely hate (love) to see it.

 

[ffh]

Mike smith says be careful what you wish for.

 

[archangel2]

Luckily, there's only years and years more to go with him, Oiler fans.

How long before the dynamic duo ask for a trade? Have to think if they miss the playoffs this year they will.