Post-Game Talk: ECQF GAME 7 - That's All Folks - It's Over - THANK YOU BERGIE

[KnightofBoston]

Sorry, just don't see how a team can get that close to the Cup and blame the GM for not winning it all.

Seems to make a lot more sense to praise the GM for putting together a team that had a very real chance to win Cup.

matt barkowski and wade redden?

kaspars daugavins?

of course they made it to the finals, they still had the same core that got them there two years earlier. But, those wins relied on some insane luck, hockey is often a game of bounces and the team that can apply consistent pressure and capitalize on chances wins the day. So yes, I blame chia because he should have identified what was needed for this club and taken the next step. He just threw darts at the board and thought "well, we did in 2011 soooo"....was enough and it clearly wasn't.

bad depth players and role players, chicago not so much. That ended up being the difference

that team very nearly completely choked to a far inferior team in toronto and only by the absolute sheer will of lucic and bergeron did we end up winning, they then rode that win through the rangers, sparked also by an upcoming krug, pittsburgh was all rask and team defense, but I think they were overrated. Chicago was a really good example of our flaws being highlighted. Flaws Chia then tried to cover up for only for the team to bow out to an inferior team in montreal. Many on here, including myself at the time, and Im an optimist, felt iffy about our defense having redden and bartkowski in the top 6. It was always a hope they'd play to their potential and or ceiling. Chia actually struggled mightily to fill out the D corps for years, even going back to the cup win, Kaberle was the best he could do and while the man put up lots of apples, if that was his best that really says a lot about his worst. Now im getting flash backs of corvo and zanon, how dare you do this to me Dennis

 

[Spooner st]

I purposely took some time over the weekend to collect my thoughts on this game and the season as a whole before sharing anything. Not because I was mad or sad, but because after about 5 minutes following the end of the game, I was pretty apathetic about the outcome. They didn't deserve to move forward; the better team won. As Pedro would say, you just need to tip your cap and call the Canes our daddies.

I was vocal at the deadline about selling. I still think that's the right move. The team needs a change in identity, a change in talent, a change in direction, and a change in leadership. It's time to let 2011 go.

Cassidy isn't the issue. I'd like for him to stay IF there is a change at the top in Sweeney and Neely. If they stay, I think he has to go simply because something needs to change. If he does go, I want a new coaching regime, not Sacco or another assistant at the helm. A new system, a new voice.

I don't trust Sweeney and Neely to lead the rebuild I think this team desperately needs. There are fan favorites on this team that are signed to team-friendly deals...the risk of them walking at the end of those contracts with getting nothing in return is just too high for me. As much as it would pain me to see guys like Pasta and Marchand in another uniform, for the long term health of the franchise, anyone not named McAvoy or Swayman needs to be available.

Saying this doesn't make me stupid or foolish. Saying this doesn't make me a bad fan. Saying this is looking at the long term health of this organization and believing, as constructed, we're in the hockey purgatory of middling picks and first round exits/DNQs. It's time to let go of the glory days and the players that got us there and start building towards the next glory days era.

I fully expected this team to get swept by Carolina after their showing in their first two games, and I'm happy and proud of them that they made a series out of it. That doesn't change anything for me in terms of where I think this team is headed.

No, as a fan, I'm not satisfied with 2 Cup Finals appearances since 2011 and a bunch of series wins. They don't give out trophies for showing up. I don't care what Toronto fans have to put up with. The reason they're in that situation is their management is arrogant and thinks they're better than they are - which is exactly the situation we find ourselves in. It's avoidable. Let go of the past and look to the future. If sports are, indeed entertainment, I'd be more entertained watching a young, promising team on the upswing that DNQ's than an old, tired team get knocked out of the playoffs in the early rounds.

Just a note - the toxic positivity on this board is just as bad as the toxic negativity. Constantly posting that it's just a game is condescending. Of course it's just a game, and of course there are more important things going on in the world and, as we have learned, in many of our personal lives. But this is a hockey message board and we are here to talk about hockey, not the downfall of our collective society. People are going to have negative reactions to their favorite team losing. Telling people they're foolish for having a different point of view than you is intolerant of other views and opinions.

When the hockey talk here is on, it's an awesome place to be. When it's not, it's a miserable cesspool.

What a great post. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

matt barkowski and wade redden?

kaspars daugavins?

of course they made it to the finals, they still had the same core that got them there two years earlier. But, those wins relied on some insane luck, hockey is often a game of bounces and the team that can apply consistent pressure and capitalize on chances wins the day. So yes, I blame chia because he should have identified what was needed for this club and taken the next step. He just threw darts at the board and thought "well, we did in 2011 soooo"....was enough and it clearly wasn't.

bad depth players and role players, chicago not so much. That ended up being the difference

that team very nearly completely choked to a far inferior team in toronto and only by the absolute sheer will of lucic and bergeron did we end up winning, they then rode that win through the rangers, sparked also by an upcoming krug, pittsburgh was all rask and team defense, but I think they were overrated. Chicago was a really good example of our flaws being highlighted. Flaws Chia then tried to cover up for only for the team to bow out to an inferior team in montreal. Many on here, including myself at the time, and Im an optimist, felt iffy about our defense having redden and bartkowski in the top 6. It was always a hope they'd play to their potential and or ceiling. Chia actually struggled mightily to fill out the D corps for years, even going back to the cup win, Kaberle was the best he could do and while the man put up lots of apples, if that was his best that really says a lot about his worst. Now im getting flash backs of corvo and zanon, how dare you do this to me Dennis

Sorry for the flashbacks!

 

[Spooner st]

It isn't the" simply because you don't like his opinion". It's complaining about everything all of the time (and you aren't always like that) even when they win. I swear even if the Bs won the cup some would not be happy. I do NOT mean you.

It is when the only time some posters post is when the Bs lose. Almost like they enjoy pissing, moaning and complaining. It is like those few posters are happy when the Bs lose.

Some post stupid stuff just to stir the pot.

I get being disappointed. I want some changes too.

I hope the Bs make you positive again.

Do you think complaining about those that are complaining is any better? Or smarter. In the end they're only opinions, different opinions yes... but opinions none the less.

 

[Alicat]

Coming into the series with the Canes these players were clearly problematic because of Carolina's ability to feast on blue line turnovers. Marchand did really well in cutting down on his turnovers, but Pasta and Hall just do not seem to have the hockey IQ to adjust their play. Maybe if they dodged the Canes those guys would have been the stars of a series against the Rangers or Leafs.

The Canes knew stopping that second line would be key to winning the series and they were right.

Haula will be great back on the 3rd line but Hall and Pasta need a legit center who can facilitate moving the puck as well as being able to cover them defensively. IMO, they were both trying too hard and their play suffered from it.

Everyone knows they are setting Pasta up for a one timer, he needs a new more. The same for Marchand. Everyone is on to your deke and curl Marchy.

The team has holes and can be greatly improved but they don’t need to be taken down to the studs and left bare.

I want consistent, balanced lines next season.

 

[TD Charlie]

I purposely took some time over the weekend to collect my thoughts on this game and the season as a whole before sharing anything. Not because I was mad or sad, but because after about 5 minutes following the end of the game, I was pretty apathetic about the outcome. They didn't deserve to move forward; the better team won. As Pedro would say, you just need to tip your cap and call the Canes our daddies.
...

Ay dios mio what a post. I know in my heart (or maybe in my head, I'm so conflicted) I agree with literally everything you mentioned, but I'm just not mentally or emotionally prepared to accept it. It's going to crush me if I have to sit through a few years of Dave Lewis era hockey, but it will also crush me if I have to sit through 2 more years of a very mid team which then quickly turns into the Ottawa Senators.

I know it's best to rip the band aid off and prepare, but f*** I'm just so sad about it all.

 

[JOKER 192]

Bergy is NOT going anywhere. Certainly not to the Habs.

Silly talk

Bergy grew up a Nordiques fan therefore hated the Habs. Heard him say it in an interview years back.

 

[KnightofBoston]

The Canes knew stopping that second line would be key to winning the series and they were right.

Haula will be great back on the 3rd line but Hall and Pasta need a legit center who can facilitate moving the puck as well as being able to cover them defensively. IMO, they were both trying too hard and their play suffered from it.

Everyone knows they are setting Pasta up for a one timer, he needs a new more. The same for Marchand. Everyone is on to your deke and curl Marchy.

The team has holes and can be greatly improved but they don’t need to be taken down to the studs and left bare.

I want consistent, balanced lines next season.

yea, this is where Im at, nothing toxicly positive about it. The problems with this club is the same problems theyve had since Nash got his noodles scrambled. No wing, then no center. Back to back. Sweeney's biggest off season blunder was not anticipating the krejci situation and then attempting to do "center by committee"

fine idea if bergeron and marchand are 27, hell ill take even 30, but when you know the heart and soul of your org might be in his last year, absolutely a bad move not to leave cap space open and go for a swing for the fences trade on a guy like hertl. Signing foligno on top of it really was the icing.

 

[Kate08]

Ay dios mio what a post. I know in my heart (or maybe in my head, I'm so conflicted) I agree with literally everything you mentioned, but I'm just not mentally or emotionally prepared to accept it. It's going to crush me if I have to sit through a few years of Dave Lewis era hockey, but it will also crush me if I have to sit through 2 more years of a very mid team which then quickly turns into the Ottawa Senators.

I know it's best to rip the band aid off and prepare, but f*** I'm just so sad about it all.

It's your head. If your heart is anything like mine, you want many of these guys playing in the spoked B until they are using walkers to hold them up.

 

[LSCII]

I purposely took some time over the weekend to collect my thoughts on this game and the season as a whole before sharing anything. Not because I was mad or sad, but because after about 5 minutes following the end of the game, I was pretty apathetic about the outcome. They didn't deserve to move forward; the better team won. As Pedro would say, you just need to tip your cap and call the Canes our daddies.

I was vocal at the deadline about selling. I still think that's the right move. The team needs a change in identity, a change in talent, a change in direction, and a change in leadership. It's time to let 2011 go.

Cassidy isn't the issue. I'd like for him to stay IF there is a change at the top in Sweeney and Neely. If they stay, I think he has to go simply because something needs to change. If he does go, I want a new coaching regime, not Sacco or another assistant at the helm. A new system, a new voice.

I don't trust Sweeney and Neely to lead the rebuild I think this team desperately needs. There are fan favorites on this team that are signed to team-friendly deals...the risk of them walking at the end of those contracts with getting nothing in return is just too high for me. As much as it would pain me to see guys like Pasta and Marchand in another uniform, for the long term health of the franchise, anyone not named McAvoy or Swayman needs to be available.

Saying this doesn't make me stupid or foolish. Saying this doesn't make me a bad fan. Saying this is looking at the long term health of this organization and believing, as constructed, we're in the hockey purgatory of middling picks and first round exits/DNQs. It's time to let go of the glory days and the players that got us there and start building towards the next glory days era.

I fully expected this team to get swept by Carolina after their showing in their first two games, and I'm happy and proud of them that they made a series out of it. That doesn't change anything for me in terms of where I think this team is headed.

No, as a fan, I'm not satisfied with 2 Cup Finals appearances since 2011 and a bunch of series wins. They don't give out trophies for showing up. I don't care what Toronto fans have to put up with. The reason they're in that situation is their management is arrogant and thinks they're better than they are - which is exactly the situation we find ourselves in. It's avoidable. Let go of the past and look to the future. If sports are, indeed entertainment, I'd be more entertained watching a young, promising team on the upswing that DNQ's than an old, tired team get knocked out of the playoffs in the early rounds.

Just a note - the toxic positivity on this board is just as bad as the toxic negativity. Constantly posting that it's just a game is condescending. Of course it's just a game, and of course there are more important things going on in the world and, as we have learned, in many of our personal lives. But this is a hockey message board and we are here to talk about hockey, not the downfall of our collective society. People are going to have negative reactions to their favorite team losing. Telling people they're foolish for having a different point of view than you is intolerant of other views and opinions.

When the hockey talk here is on, it's an awesome place to be. When it's not, it's a miserable cesspool.

The issues is that if they were to move either Pasta or Marchand, the return would be lesser, therefore weakening the team. The roles and impact both of those guys have on the roster is far greater than anyone they would get in return, automatically resulting in losing the trade, and making the team worse off. The big issues is at center, where they used to be rife with depth but have now found themselves bereft of that due to bad drafting and bad player development. So while it's insane to even think about it, they could be looking at back to back seasons where they lost a top 6 center to retirement, and they have zero guys to back fill either spot inside the organization.

I'd be looking to resign Bergeron ASAP, or if he is going to walk, get aggressive and find a better option than slotting up 3rd and 4th liners in a throw as much shit at the wall to see what sticks kind of approach they used when DK retired last year. That worked fine for games against bad teams, but once they played a playoff caliber squad, Haula/Coyle got exposed for being what they are: 3rd line players.

The fact that they just resigned Zboril, and Beecher says to me that Sweeney is still running things and isn't going anywhere. Neely too. And that's the biggest issue since those two are complete morons that have left this team where it is. I have zero faith they can right the ship and figure it out this far into their careers here.

 

[TD Charlie]

It's your head. If your heart is anything like mine, you want many of these guys playing in the spoked B until they are using walkers to hold them up.

Makes sense.

If you told me Sweeney and Neely were just fired, Bergeron signed a 1 year deal, and the new GM was touting promises to make serious changes, I'd probably go all in and declare that I am ready to be hurt again.

But I know it's best to let go now. This is too much for a Monday lol

 

[Kate08]

The issues is that if they were to move either Pasta or Marchand, the return would be lesser, therefore weakening the team. The roles and impact both of those guys have on the roster is far greater than anyone they would get in return, automatically resulting in losing the trade, and making the team worse off. The big issues is at center, where they used to be rife with depth but have now found themselves bereft of that due to bad drafting and bad player development. So while it's insane to even think about it, they could be looking at back to back seasons where they lost a top 6 center to retirement, and they have zero guys to back fill either spot inside the organization.

I'd be looking to resign Bergeron ASAP, or if he is going to walk, get aggressive and find a better option than slotting up 3rd and 4th liners in a throw as much shit at the wall to see what sticks kind of approach they used when DK retired last year. That worked fine for games against bad teams, but once they played a playoff caliber squad, Haula/Coyle got exposed for being what they are: 3rd line players.

The fact that they just resigned Zboril, and Beecher says to me that Sweeney is still running things and isn't going anywhere. Neely too. And that's the biggest issue since those two are complete morons that have left this team where it is. I have zero faith they can right the ship and figure it out this far into their careers here.

Of course the return would be lesser - those are both phenomenal hockey players. But giving up our trash is only going to get someone else's trash in return.

You don't trade them to be better now, you trade them to be better years from now. Whether it's young prospects or picks, we need to restock the cupboard and you have to give up value to get value. Unless you're pretty damn sure they are going to resign beyond their current contracts at similar cost, you have to at least consider it.

 

[trenton1]

I started coming to terms that this would very likely be a season without a Cup when Krejci or a comparable 2C didn't arrive here at the deadline. Seeing Foligno never make it back to even 60 percent of the player he used to be, was also a death knell.

Yeah, yeah, I know everyone is tired of hearing Krejci's name (even though he's a year younger than the guy we can't do without) but he or someone on his level was the missing piece, IMO. Haula gave his all, but he's a winner in the bottom six.

Credit to Sweeney for trying for Giroux. Giroux would have given the team a legit chance and probably even gets them past Carolina if most things are the same. But it just didn't happen - like Iginla didn't happen in 2013 because of a choice that the player made.

The Bruins were a very good, if frustrating, team this season that just didn't have the depth to win it all.
This squad made a good showing. Carolina is deep and plays very, very well as a team and the Bruins dug deep to make it very close. The Bruins didn't let their paying audience down in these playoffs either, which is more than you can say for some of the previous Bruins teams where they were favored and lost ugly at home.

Bruins still one player away, but also hold tradable assets if they wish to re-tool.

In 2016, most people on here told us to buckle up for the lean years, etc., etc. we're going back to the 90's blah blah. Within three years they were one win away from winning it all. Things could go either way again, but this isn't 1996. The Bruins have legit talent - of all ages - in stable right now. There are a few dud contracts, but at least they aren't long ones. I'm not that down.

Try to compete if Bergeron returns. Sell a few items if he doesn't.

 

[TD Charlie]

Of course the return would be lesser - those are both phenomenal hockey players. But giving up our trash is only going to get someone else's trash in return.

You don't trade them to be better now, you trade them to be better years from now. Whether it's young prospects or picks, we need to restock the cupboard and you have to give up value to get value. Unless you're pretty damn sure they are going to resign beyond their current contracts at similar cost, you have to at least consider it.

To me it all hinges on Bergeron. If he's gonna play another year and the GM will at least make an honest effort to bolster the offense, I'll roll the dice with the big guns again. At least start the season with them.

No Bergeron? Don't bother. Blow it up over the summer and move whatever it takes. Swayman and McAvoy I'd keep. Everyone else has a price.

I started coming to terms that this would very likely be a season without a Cup when Krejci or a comparable 2C didn't arrive here at the deadline. Seeing Foligno never make it back to even 60 percent of the player he used to be, was also a death knell.

Yeah, yeah, I know everyone is tired of hearing Krejci's name (even though he's a year younger than the guy we can't do without) but he or someone on his level was the missing piece, IMO. Haula gave his all, but he's a winner in the bottom six.

Credit to Sweeney for trying for Giroux. Giroux would have given the team a legit chance and probably even gets them past Carolina if most things are the same. But it just didn't happen - like Iginla didn't happen in 2013 because of a choice that the player made.

The Bruins were a very good, if frustrating, team this season that just didn't have the depth to win it all.
This squad made a good showing. Carolina is deep and plays very, very well as a team and the Bruins dug deep to make it very close. The Bruins didn't let their paying audience down in these playoffs either, which is more than you can say for some of the previous Bruins teams where they were favored and lost ugly at home.

Bruins still one player away, but also hold tradable assets if they wish to re-tool.

In 2016, most people on here told us to buckle up for the lean years, etc., etc. we're going back to the 90's blah blah. Within three years they were one win away from winning it all. Things could go either way again, but this isn't 1996. The Bruins have legit talent - of all ages - in stable right now. There are a few dud contracts but at least they aren't long ones. I'm not that down.

Try to compete if Bergeron returns. Sell a few items if he doesn't.

It was over at "center by committee"

 

[LSCII]

Of course the return would be lesser - those are both phenomenal hockey players. But giving up our trash is only going to get someone else's trash in return.

You don't trade them to be better now, you trade them to be better years from now. Whether it's young prospects or picks, we need to restock the cupboard and you have to give up value to get value. Unless you're pretty damn sure they are going to resign beyond their current contracts at similar cost, you have to at least consider it.

Yeah, I just don't see that as viable. Both of those guys are top level, elite talent on great contracts, you won't get anything other than pennies on the dollar if you move them now. And really, there's virtually no reason to trade them other than the GM/front office being incompetent with drafting, to the point where he can't fill out a roster of decent players around them. The move is to dump the GM and "President" figure head and make a break from the two people that have driven this into the ground with reach after reach in the draft, and identifying bottom 6 UFAs to sign to long term, over valued deals.

You don't get into cap problems when you slightly overpay in term or dollars for a top talent. But you sure as shit do by over extending for bottom of the barrel, run of the mill players. Which is where Sweeney really truly f***ed it up. All bottom 6 players getting paid too much, all bottom pairing defensemen getting too much, which many here called him out for in the off season, as it was happening.

This team used to be a 2 line offensively talented team that could give other teams fits. Now it's basically 2/3rds of a top line team, with a third line, and 2 4th lines. It's pathetic and it all stems from the gross incompetence running the team.

 

[Kate08]

Yeah, I just don't see that as viable. Both of those guys are top level, elite talent on great contracts, you won't get anything other than pennies on the dollar if you move them now. And really, there's virtually no reason to trade them other than the GM/front office being incompetent with drafting, to the point where he can't fill out a roster of decent players around them. The move is to dump the GM and "President" figure head and make a break from the two people that have driven this into the ground with reach after reach in the draft, and identifying bottom 6 UFAs to sign to long term, over valued deals.

You don't get into cap problems when you slightly overpay in term or dollars for a top talent. But you sure as shit do by over extending for bottom of the barrel, run of the mill players. Which is where Sweeney really truly f***ed it up. All bottom 6 players getting paid too much, all bottom pairing defensemen getting too much, which many here called him out for in the off season, as it was happening.

This team used to be a 2 line offensively talented team that could give other teams fits. Now it's basically 2/3rds of a top line team, with a third line, and 2 4th lines. It's pathetic and it all stems from the gross incompetence running the team.

I completely agree with this. This has been the issue for years, I'm not disputing that. I'm trying to look at ways to get out of it.

 

[Alicat]

I completely agree with this. This has been the issue for years, I'm not disputing that. I'm trying to look at ways to get out of it.

At this point the only way changes at the top happen is if Cam decides to “step down”.

Ownership loves him but the issue is that they can’t differentiate between Cam the player who was fantastic and Cam the President who is simply not good.

 

[Kate08]

At this point the only way changes at the top happen is if Cam decides to “step down”.

Ownership loves him but the issue is that they can’t differentiate between Cam the player who was fantastic and Cam the President who is simply not good.

If Jacobs was as shroud of a businessman as everyone says he is, he'd be able to make that distinction. I think the issue there is he doesn't see Cam as a president that is simply not good, we as fans do.

 

[22Brad Park]

This is another big off-season hopefully they be able to make some quality adjustments

They just resigned Zboril who I like. He had a spot locked up when that freak Injury in Nash bit him.Its a long season and you need bodies but the 1 player I see in trouble here is Grezlyck .Time will tell.

 

[mjhfb]

If they do try again without major changes and if Bergeron does come back pushing 38 years old, to make it work they'd have to find a new stud #1C along with another scoring forward for less wear and tear on Bergeron dropped to 2C, Haula dropped and better slotted at 3C, and Coyle doing his down low puck possession work at 4C.
Center ice would be better, but I just don't see that happening.
Time to move on.

 

[DarrenBanks56]

i blame giroux.
if he comes here we are onto the next round

 

[LSCII]

I completely agree with this. This has been the issue for years, I'm not disputing that. I'm trying to look at ways to get out of it.

The only way to get out of it is to divest themselves of the folks who created it. Leaving them in charge to fix their mistakes will not fix anything, regardless of what players they move. Those clowns are the reason this team is where it is. They cannot afford leaving them in to try and fix it at this point.

 

[Alicat]

Move Nosek and keep Lazar

 

[Bruinaura]

This would not displease me, at the right price. I like Lazar.

 

[Bruinaura]