Dylan Guenther or Juraj Slafkovsky?

[SeanMoneyHands]

Who will be the better player long term?

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[BoHorvat 53]

Think they'll put up similar point totals, but Slaf's physicality/defense potential (Already trusted to hold leads at the end of games) makes this him comfortably

 

[Coffees]

Canucks fan saying Slaf, probably will be close

 

[Yasuo]

If both score 70/80 points in ther prime give me the power forward over the sniper

 

[dgibb10]

Aww yeah time to start the assumption that Guenther not throwing hits means he will never be good defensively, and that throwing hits inherently makes you a "two way" player

 

[Captain97]

Aww yeah time to start the assumption that Guenther not throwing hits means he will never be good defensively, and that throwing hits inherently makes you a "two way" player

Throwing hits isn't why people like Slafs defensive game. He strips pucks of people effortlessly on the regular, at 20 years old that's insanely impressive.

 

[dgibb10]

Throwing hits isn't why people like Slafs defensive game. He strips pucks of people effortlessly on the regular, at 20 years old that's insanely impressive.

And yet both people in this thread above me used hits/physicality/"power forward" to justify their choice.

Neither are good defensively at this point. Both have shown promise, both are wingers who will have limited defensive impact regardless.

In fact I'd give Guenther the edge defensively at this point because he's been more disciplined, taking penalties at a little over half the rate of Slaf (who had one of the worst penalty differentials in hockey, and in terms of on ice, he gives up less shots, shot attempts, and expected goals than Slaf. (and zone starts aren't particularly relevant, but Slaf had a 16%-11% split, and guenther had a 10%-10% split).

So again, the assumption that Guenther will not be good defensively, and Slaf will, is based on stereotypes about players who don't hit.

 

[Bouboumaster]

I think that Slafkovsky is more talented, while also being a huge f***ing unit: 6'4", 220 lbs+

Good with puck protection, defensive assignment, solid vision, solid shot, yada yada

Guenther is a great player himself, but if you have the choice between the two of them, it's pretty obvious IMO who you should take

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Slaf by a lot

 

[Imgoingtowork]

Who will be the better player long term?

Red Wings fan saying Slafkovsky but it's close battle.

It's personalized for me for both are hockey stars in the NHL.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I think they'll produce similarly, but I'll take Juraj given the 30+ pound difference.

Think people sleep on Slaf because MTL put him in the show faster than he should've been, which made him look lackluster. Sometimes that damages development. Sometimes it doesn't.

 

[CanadienShark]

Slafkovsky. Somewhere between close and not close, but clearly.

Aww yeah time to start the assumption that Guenther not throwing hits means he will never be good defensively, and that throwing hits inherently makes you a "two way" player

Spoken like somebody totally clueless about Slafkovsky's game.

 

[dgibb10]

Slafkovsky. Somewhere between close and not close, but clearly.


Spoken like somebody totally clueless about Slafkovsky's game.

You can't call slaf good defensively, suzuki a selke candidate, and say "it's not the defense's fault" while giving up so many chances. Unless you think Cole Caufield is the worst defensive player of all time and an overall net negative

Here are 2 simple questions:

Do you think that MTLs dcore is/was worse than this group last year?

Do you think Logan Cooley and Lawson Crouse were better than Cole Caufield and Nick Suzuki last year?

 

[CanadienShark]

You can't call slaf good defensively, suzuki a selke candidate, and say "it's not the defense's fault" while giving up so many chances. Unless you think Cole Caufield is the worst defensive player of all time and an overall net negative

Here are 2 simple questions:

Do you think that MTLs dcore is/was worse than this group last year?View attachment 914744

Do you think Logan Cooley and Lawson Crouse were better than Cole Caufield and Nick Suzuki last year?

When did I call Suzuki a Selke candidate or say our defence isn't to blame? Either way, our issues defensively are more system issues than personnel. What's with all the irrelevant nonsense that has nothing to do with your poor evaluation of Slafkovsky?

 

[dgibb10]

When did I call Suzuki a Selke candidate or say our defence isn't to blame? Either way, our issues defensively are more system issues than personnel. What's with all the irrelevant nonsense that has nothing to do with your poor evaluation of Slafkovsky?

So you think MSL should be fired then?

Here are both players' results from last year:

EV on ice results:

EV individual results:

Individual PP results:

On Ice PP results:

The results from last year favour Guenther.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's gonna end up Guenther.

 

[CanadienShark]

So you think MSL should be fired then?

Stop trying to change the subject. Your take (as usual) on Slafkovsky is wildly inaccurate.

 

[dgibb10]

Stop trying to change the subject. Your take (as usual) on Slafkovsky is wildly inaccurate.

Guenther had better results last year, both in terms of individual production rate, and on ice results.

You claimed it was the system causing this, of which the logical assumption is that the coach in charge of this apparently horrific system should be fired

 

[Leafshater67]

I’m picking DG because I believe he can and will score 50 goals in this league.

That being said, Montreal has a guy who compliments their roster and team and so does Utah. Guenther has some play makers to feed him and Slaf can make space for smaller, skilled guys. Both work, both are good and I’d be happy if my team had either of them.

 

[CanadienShark]

Guenther had better results last year, both in terms of individual production rate, and on ice results.

You claimed it was the system causing this, of which the logical assumption is that the coach in charge of this apparently horrific system should be fired

I never said anything like that. You made the assertion that Slafkovsky is only perceived as good defensively because "he hits," which is absurd and untrue. I never said the system affected Slafkovsky as an individual defensive player. You can't keep your narrative straight.

 

[Jared Dunn]

I'm biased but Slaf. He also seems to have realized how damn big he is and is playing with some meanness which could make him a true force.

Both contracts will age extremely well

 

[dgibb10]

I never said anything like that. You made the assertion that Slafkovsky is only perceived as good defensively because "he hits," which is absurd and untrue. I never said the system affected Slafkovsky as an individual defensive player. You can't keep your narrative straight.

Did the system affect Slafkofsky's defensive results or not?

Because they're worse than Guenther's.

Neither are good defensively. And yet one guy is apparently viewed as "two way", and the other is not.

Like I said, there is an assumption that because Guenther isn't physical he is inherently bad defensively (and this same shit happens with virtually every single non physical productive winger).

And that because Slaf is physical, that he is inherently good defensively.


If you want the peak of this stereotype you can go look at any of the 100 debates about Mitch Marner (who has had excellent defensive results throughout his career) and Brady Tkachuk (who has had consistently bad defensive results but he #HITZ)

 

[CanadienShark]

Did the system affect Slafkofsky's defensive results or not?

Because they're worse than Guenther's.

Neither are good defensively. And yet one guy is apparently viewed as "two way", and the other is not.

Like I said, there is an assumption that because Guenther isn't physical he is inherently bad defensively (and this same shit happens with virtually every single non physical productive winger).

And that because Slaf is physical, that he is inherently good defensively.


If you want the peak of this stereotype you can go look at any of the 100 debates about Mitch Marner (who has had excellent defensive results throughout his career) and Brady Tkachuk (who has had consistently bad defensive results but he #HITZ)

I never compared them defensively. You made the absurd comment about Slafkovsky hitting and defensive play. As per usual, you are just here to bash the Habs and prove you don't actually watch them. I never said a word about Guenther defensively, so why are you obsessed with that comparison?

 

[dgibb10]

I never compared them defensively. You made the absurd comment about Slafkovsky hitting and defensive play. As per usual, you are just here to bash the Habs and prove you don't actually watch them. I never said a word about Guenther defensively, so why are you obsessed with that comparison?

Why am I talking about Slaf and Guenther in a thread about Slaf vs Guenther?

Think that one over for a second.

Also you replied to me lmao.

Slaf has bad defensive results and takes a lot of penalties while trying to defend. Yet the perception of him doesn't reflect that.

You see it CONSTANTLY where guys who are physical are viewed as good defensively, regardless of whether they actually are.

And guys who aren't physical are viewed as bad defensively, regardless of whether they actually are

 

[Xirik]

in this point of their careers I'd expect Guenther to be a bit better which he is. However the Slafkovsky train is getting powered up and has a good chance to pass Guenther in the next year or two.