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Confirmed with Link: Dubas the new GM - TSN

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pawn said:
Yeah, it's not like I've been following the situation since the day he was hired.
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Hes been working with Lou every day for the past 3 years, you think he hasn't built any relationships over that time? What do you think hes been doing all that time?

"They could have just bought a computer"
Hes not all analytics... He uses analytics to help him make decisions and take away bias. Hes not just looking at a spread sheet and sorting it from highest to lowest and going with that.

Hes also been completely responsible for the Research and Development as well as Player Development for the Leafs organization as a whole. Those Marlies that have found great success with the Leafs the past few years, Dubas has had a huge influence in that. But youre right, has no high end experience...

What sort of relationships would Chayka have had at the time? If anything he would have way less, but hes done quite well for the Yotes in terms of trades.
 
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Pookie said:
I think the bigger question is will he have the respect of the fan base and media?

It shouldn’t matter but it does in terms of longevity in the position.

If he’s making moves with “moneyball” in mind, the stats he will use will likely be proprietary and not publicly available. Performance, health metrics and other variables.

If he makes an unpopular move, he can’t provide his rationale.

And if it doesn’t immediately pay off, that’s a recipe for a roast.

He’s got a VERY tough set of circumstances
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" very tough set of circumstances "

the guys walking into a dream set up as a new GM

-great young core of frwds as well as some quality prospects ready to go
-excellent cap situation
-solid starting goalie (people should watch some other teams play once and while to appreciate his play)
-good young core of D that's only missing a piece or two
-unlimited budget
-hands free owners

i don't know how much better a GM can be set up for success

also he'll be judged like every other GM has been judged and that's based on how he performs and the vast majority of fans don't give a damn how he goes about accomplishing his job , they just care about the results
 
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hotpaws said:
" very tough set of circumstances "

the guys walking into a dream set up as a new GM

-great young core of frwds as well as some quality prospects ready to go
-excellent cap situation
-solid starting goalie (people should watch some other teams play once and while to appreciate his play)
-good young core of D that's only missing a piece or two
-unlimited budget
-hands free owners

i don't know how much better a GM can be set up for success

also he'll be judged like every other GM has been judged and that's based on how he performs and the vast majority of fans don't give a damn how he goes about accomplishing his job , they just care about the results
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High expectations from the largest fan base?

Billy Beane’s moneyball thing didn’t pan out immediately and he was a pioneer.

If the name of the game is analytics, every team is playing it. Even bloggers.

Make no mistake, this will be a tough and unforgiving path if there is not immediate success and/or he has to make an unpopular decision.

(Choosing to resign JVR, Bozak or Komarov for example. Trading Nylander or Kadri or Rielly or someone else under 28. Passing on Tavares. Those kind of things)
 
hotpaws said:
" very tough set of circumstances "

the guys walking into a dream set up as a new GM

-great young core of frwds as well as some quality prospects ready to go
-excellent cap situation
-solid starting goalie (people should watch some other teams play once and while to appreciate his play)
-good young core of D that's only missing a piece or two
-unlimited budget
-hands free owners

i don't know how much better a GM can be set up for success

also he'll be judged like every other GM has been judged and that's based on how he performs and the vast majority of fans don't give a damn how he goes about accomplishing his job , they just care about the results
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Only missing a piece or two? I'd say we're missing at least 3 solid D. Might have at least 1 on the Marlies, more is possible.
 
Does he bring in an elite U25 RD?
Does he get assets back for Gardiner?

These are some of the key factors I personally will use to assess his performance over the next 2 years.
 
Pookie said:
I think the bigger question is will he have the respect of the fan base and media?
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Has any Leafs GM EVER had the respect of the media? They hated Burke. They hated Lamorillo. Seems to me the only GM they absolutely LOVED was Dave Nonis... because he'd blab his moves to the media and let them go after the Leafs players with whatever they wanted...

Leafs media prefers a pushover GM they can manipulate. So f*** what they want.
 
Pookie said:
High expectations from the largest fan base?

Billy Beane’s moneyball thing didn’t pan out immediately and he was a pioneer.

If the name of the game is analytics, every team is playing it. Even bloggers.

Make no mistake, this will be a tough and unforgiving path if there is not immediate success and/or he has to make an unpopular decision.
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should we have low expectations just so KD doesn't feel the pressure to perform ?

Billy Beane never achieved the ultimate prize and we're not a small market , cash strapped team .

if the team takes a step back Dubas and Shanny will feel plenty of heat and why shouldn't they ?

and if Dubas wanted to work in a market that's pressure free because few people care about the team then he should have interviewed for the Yotes job when they called
 
Al14 said:
Only missing a piece or two? I'd say we're missing at least 3 solid D. Might have at least 1 on the Marlies, more is possible.
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if we added a quality right hand D to this core the pieces would fall in place just like how adding Mathews to our frwd did

anyway regardless of if we disagree with how many D we need to add the fact is this is an enviable position for any GM to enter
 
Lightsol said:
Has any Leafs GM EVER had the respect of the media? They hated Burke. They hated Lamorillo. Seems to me the only GM they absolutely LOVED was Dave Nonis... because he'd blab his moves to the media and let them go after the Leafs players with whatever they wanted...

Leafs media prefers a pushover GM they can manipulate. So **** what they want.
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who hated LL ? and Burke brought the hate on himself

-the media loved Cliffy because he fed them stories
-Quinn was very respected and liked
-i think they liked JFJ , he just didn't perform well

Leafs media in general are ass kisses and really only go after the GM when they know he's half way out the door , Burke was probably the only exception but he was always looking for a fight .
 
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I would have been more comfortable with Lou Lam negotiating the 3 Amigos next big contracts first and then stepping aside handing the reins to Dubas.

Now I feel their agents are licking their lips in anticipation of > $$$ contracts without having to deal with Lou.

Shanny appears however to want Dubas to be the one that takes ownership and accountability of those contracts as he is the long term plan and those players will impact the Leafs for the next decade..
 
If Dubas is truly an analytics guy, the one thing he won't be doing is obsessing about instantly filling in the perceived positional weakness at any cost.

Talk sports radio has really lost my interest. But during a few selected audits of it yesterday I encountered the following lowlights: Jeff Blair calling MLSE "cowards" for making the two major moves on the same day, Prime Time Sports having a 20 minute discussion of Maple Leafs' front office politics with Dubas and talk nothing about actual hockey or philosophy about the make up of the hockey team. Sports talk radio is dead. How do people listen to this garbage any longer?
 
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Mess said:
I would have been more comfortable with Lou Lam negotiating the 3 Amigos next big contracts first and then stepping aside handing the reins to Dubas.

Now I feel their agents are licking their lips in anticipation of > $$$ contracts without having to deal with Lou.

Shanny appears however to want Dubas to be the one that takes ownership and accountability of those contracts as he is the long term plan and those players will impact the Leafs for the next decade..
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Lamoriello gave Zaitsev a 7 year contract and signed Matt Martin to a 4 year contract. The amount of bad contracts New Jersey accumulated in his time there has been really bad and he cost that team draft picks and money.

I am pretty sure they don't care who's the GM and agents will get what is beneficial to their player. It's not like they got scared when 'Big Bag' Brian Burke was here and gave him sweet heart deals.

The idea that Dubas is an idiot that can't figure out how to sign players (he was an agent himself) or how to deal with other GMs is really bad and lazy analysis.

Also, Brandon Pridham is still here.
 
Why are people citing Moneyball with regards to Dubas? Unlike Billy Beane he has money to spend. He’s going to use analytics along with scouting to find diamonds in the rough. Every GM in the league is trying to do this, we’re just hoping Dubas is going to be better than anyone else at it. I don’t see what Moneyball has to do with anything.

This is just all related to people perceiving Dubas to be a numbers guy only. Hello, Billy Beane wasn’t even a numbers guy.
 
SprDaVE said:
Lamoriello gave Zaitsev a 7 year contract and signed Matt Martin to a 4 year contract. The amount of bad contracts New Jersey accumulated in his time there has been really bad and he cost that team draft picks and money.

I am pretty sure they don't care who's the GM and agents will get what is beneficial to their player. It's not like they scared when 'Big Bag' Brian Burke was here and gave him sweet heart deals.

The idea that Dubas is an idiot that can't figure out how to sign players (he was an agent himself) or how to deal with other GMs is really bad and lazy analysis.

Also, Brandon Pridham is still here.
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With Dubas in charge I believe Matthews new contract will now be closer to $12 mil per (15% of C.H) as opposed closer to $10 mil.

We will soon find out what type of negotiator Dubas is as it will be reflective in the contracts of the 3 Amigos.

His plan to replace JVR annual 30+ goals, Bozak his 3rd line C and FO specialist, his plan to upgrade the defense also key offseason moves that are quickly approaching as well.
 
Mess said:
With Dubas in charge I believe Matthews new contract will now be closer to $12 mil per (15% of C.H) as opposed closer to $10 mil.

We will soon find out what type of negotiator Dubas is as it will be reflective in the contracts of the 3 Amigos.
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Why would you think that? Also, it's literally impossible to prove. Nothing suggests Lamoriello or any other GM would have the power to do something like that.

I can say that Lamoriello would have given Matthews the max cap hit for 8 years and there's literally no way you can say I'm wrong. Just look at his contracts over the past decade and there's no way you can say he's a great negotiator.
 
Even though Dubas has been in the organization, Lou has been the GM for the past 3 years. So what shape did Lou leave us in with his departure? What is Dubas now working with? The team at present (NHL experience only)

Hyman..Matthews..Nylander (RFA)
Marleau..Kadri..Marner
Johnsson..Gauthier..Brown
Leivo..N/A..Kapanen

Rielly..Hainsey
Gardiner..Zaitsev
Dermott..Carrick
Borgman..Holl
Rosen

Andersen
McB/Sparks

Draft picks: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th (x2)

So that's what he's starting with to begin shaping this team. This is where you can begin to evaluate his work. And there is much to do. Not a lot of strength/depth in tradeable assets to get what some people expect.
 
SprDaVE said:
Lamoriello gave Zaitsev a 7 year contract and signed Matt Martin to a 4 year contract. The amount of bad contracts New Jersey accumulated in his time there has been really bad and he cost that team draft picks and money.

I am pretty sure they don't care who's the GM and agents will get what is beneficial to their player. It's not like they got scared when 'Big Bag' Brian Burke was here and gave him sweet heart deals.

The idea that Dubas is an idiot that can't figure out how to sign players (he was an agent himself) or how to deal with other GMs is really bad and lazy analysis.

Also, Brandon Pridham is still here.
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Too early to knock taht deal imo. He looked very good in his first NHl season and is only 25.
 
Discussing Dubas' willingness to embrace analytics doesn't mean anyone thinks that's all he's about. This is a strawman.

There's nothing wrong with the term "Moneyball" in discussing any sports team management especially a team that has to operate under a salary cap. Every sports franchise hopes to get the most for their money including the rich ones.
 
Trapper said:
Even though Dubas has been in the organization, Lou has been the GM for the past 3 years. So what shape did Lou leave us in with his departure? What is Dubas now working with? The team at present (NHL experience only)

So that's what he's starting with to begin shaping this team. This is where you can begin to evaluate his work. And there is much to do. Not a lot of strength/depth in tradeable assets to get what some people expect.
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He could really make an early name for himself should he parlay Willy Nylander into a top 4 young Dman or #1 Dman, particularly if getting Nylander resigned becomes an issue.

With a young inexperience GM is he more likely to play it safe or willing to show what he is made of and put his stamp on the team early?

Will we still be following the Shanaplan or does Dubas have some rope to shape the team in his image and not Shanahan?
 
LeafFever said:
Too early to knock taht deal imo. He looked very good in his first NHl season and is only 25.
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The point is that it's not a great contract and it's looking pretty rough. I'd be shocked if it was considered a 'good' contract anytime soon.
 
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