Dubas appreciation thread

[Spirit of 67]

This.

I'll gladly take Dubas over Lou. Good luck to the Islanders with that roster is all I can say

Islanders season was saved by Covid last year. They were skyrocketing down the standings and were likely going to miss.
There's a very good chance they miss this year as well.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Well Dubas has to work with it.

No he doesn't.

If he "works with the fan base" he should be fired.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Komarov left as a UFA and Martin was made a healthy scratch by Babcock while Lou was still GM. So I think tend to exaggerate thr supposed departure of grit. Especially given that Muzzin and Clifford were each added in each subsequent season and now Simmonds.

Martin was terrible here.
We were begging for him to be taken out of the line up.

 

[ToneDog]

No he doesn't.

If he "works with the fan base" he should be fired.

By "work with it", I meant "deal with it. He and/or management will feel the pressure of the fan base when they are not winning. It happens in Toronto, Montreal, New York, Vancouver, Calgary etc. Look at the heat Benning took after he said time ran out to sign Tofolli. If anything, it is worse now with social media.

 

[Spirit of 67]

By "work with it", I meant "deal with it. He and/or management will feel the pressure of the fan base when they are not winning. It happens in Toronto, Montreal, New York, Vancouver, Calgary etc. Look at the heat Benning took after he said time ran out to sign Tofolli. If anything, it is worse now with social media.

The only thing he has to do with the fan base is ignore it.

Any GM who listens to the fans should immediately be fired.

 

[ToneDog]

The only thing he has to do with the fan base is ignore it.

Any GM who listens to the fans should immediately be fired.

Essier said than done. Just ask Fletch who bent to fan pressure and reaquired Clark (and was fleeced by Milbury). The GM who traded Murphy due to fans booing him to death. Burkie for firing Wilson because he did not want Wilson to have to face fans constantly booing him. Only way to silence this long suffering fanbase is to keep winning.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Essier said than done. Just ask Fletch who bent to fan pressure and reaquired Clark (and was fleeced by Milbury). The GM who traded Murphy due to fans booing him to death. Burkie for firing Wilson because he did not want Wilson to have to face fans constantly booing him. Only way to silence this long suffering fanbase is to keep winning.

And now you see why a GM MUST ignore fans.

 

[RogerR]

Islanders season was saved by Covid last year. They were skyrocketing down the standings and were likely going to miss.
There's a very good chance they miss this year as well.

Yup. They benfitted the most from COVID. But they will miss the playoffs this year IMO. And their cap situation is very ugly.

 

[RogerR]

Essier said than done. Just ask Fletch who bent to fan pressure and reaquired Clark (and was fleeced by Milbury). The GM who traded Murphy due to fans booing him to death. Burkie for firing Wilson because he did not want Wilson to have to face fans constantly booing him. Only way to silence this long suffering fanbase is to keep winning.

I am so glad Dubas did not listen to the fanbase and rush a trade for Nylander at age 22 for a more worse D than TJ Brodie or Holl.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Yup. They benfitted the most from COVID. But they will miss the playoffs this year IMO. And their cap situation is very ugly.

There's really no way you can convince me that last years GM of the Year wasn't just an FU to Dubas.
That said, the awards last year were kinda lazy.

 

[ToneDog]

I am so glad Dubas did not listen to the fanbase and rush a trade for Nylander at age 22 for a more worse D than TJ Brodie or Holl.

How would you feel if he dealt him for Parayko? The other rumoured dmen would have been a mistake.

Either way good on Kyle for holding his ground.

 

[RogerR]

1. How would you feel if he dealt him for Parayko? The other rumoured dmen would have been a mistake.
   
   Either way good on Kyle for holding his ground.

   
   
   
2. Paryko we only heard this past offseason So many in the fanbase would have dumped him for Montour or Pesce (What was with Lebrun passing him off as some star?).

 

[RogerR]

There's really no way you can convince me that last years GM of the Year wasn't just an FU to Dubas.
That said, the awards last year were kinda lazy.

Oh it was. They love to shit on the Leafs.
Many hockey execs pass bullshit info to guys in the media. (Remember a guy who told Friedman He'd "Bet His House" Lou will sign Marner as "Revenge"? Then litterally the next day Lou trades for Martin and helps the Leafs cap out).
Leafs are so hated yet they make the NHL the most $$$.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Oh it was. They love to shit on the Leafs.
Many hockey execs pass bullshit info to guys in the media. (Remember a guy who told Friedman He'd "Bet His House" Lou will sign Marner as "Revenge"? Then litterally the next day Lou trades for Martin and helps the Leafs cap out).
Leafs are so hated yet they make the NHL the most $$$.

One thing I've never figured out about fans is why they think GM's are so childish.
Like they'll get petty and screw themselves just to "get even" with another franchise.

 

[RogerR]

One thing I've never figured out about fans is why they think GM's are so childish.
Like they'll get petty and screw themselves just to "get even" with another franchise.

Exactly. Revenge will just end up them screwing themselves. Is Carolina one day going to offersheet a Habs player for revenge? Uh, no.
I get it makes a juicy story but no realism in it whatsoever.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Liljegren was selected by Hunter in 2017. Dubas was promoted in 2018.

Fair enough. I guess what I am trying to say is there was a clear shift in draft strategy to "soft skill" when KD took over. Also we have shifted from drafting predominantly in our back yard to heavy European focus. Not to mention the fact that KD is notorious for trading down, acquiring additional picks in the process. We certainly have had promising picks drafted in late round from other management groups that did not amount to anything. Couple names that just pop out at me being Jerry d'amigo, Jeremy Bracco, Chris DiDominico. So who is to say that these picks KD has taken in the last 2 drafts will amount to anything, I get it. But gone are the days where we waste late round picks on 6'6 mutants who cant skate and had shit for brains. The focus is skill, something you cannot teach. Between the 2015 and 2016 drafts, we had 20 draft picks. Including 2 lottery selections, 2 very early 2nd rounders, and 2 late 2nd rounders. We have Mitch, Auston and travis dermott to show from that. And when you subtract Auston and Mitch from that who were clear no brainers, it is 1 NHL player out of 18 selections. Its no where near good enough. Certainly not from a man who's bread an butter is apparently drafting (Mark Hunter). Early indications appear promising with KD's drafting. I always laugh when it comes to this board on draft day. "oh there he goes again, KD drafting another smurf"...yet those picks turn to be WJC defensmen of the tourny (niemola) and hobey baker nominee (miettinen), or OHL scoring phenom (robby). I think he has proven effective when it comes to spotting talent. But that's just me

 

[Dekes For Days]

We're now at an equal number of games under this core pre-Dubas and under Dubas.

Leafs have improved from 11th in Point% pre-Dubas to 5th under Dubas.
Leafs have improved from 13th in ROW% pre-Dubas to 3rd under Dubas.

This despite dropping from 5th in team save percentage to 16th, losing our massive ELC advantage, facing way more injuries, navigating a sudden pandemic flat cap, etc.

 

[zeke]

Lets revisit this thread during playoffs

See you in a few months then!

 

[zeke]

We're now at an equal number of games under this core pre-Dubas and under Dubas.

Leafs have improved from 11th in Point% pre-Dubas to 5th under Dubas.
Leafs have improved from 13th in ROW% pre-Dubas to 3rd under Dubas.

This despite dropping from 5th in team save percentage to 16th, losing our massive ELC advantage, facing way more injuries, navigating a sudden pandemic flat cap, etc.

w/Andersen:

Pre-Dubas: 104pt pace (.918sv%)
Post-Dubas: 111pt pace (.912sv%)

Primary Backups:

Pre-Dubas (McElhinney): 96pt pace (.925sv%)
Post-Dubas (Campbell): 113pt pace (.917sv%)

Other Backups

Pre-Dubas: 47pt pace (.884sv%)
Post-Dubas: 65pt pace (.896sv%)

Clear and significant improvrment under Dubas masked by a huge drop in goaltending.

Dubas gets some blame for the drop in backup goaltending - though we should note that McElhinney hasn't come anywhere remotely close to that career .934sv% year he had with us, and has been back to his usual .910sv% self since leaving, so keeping McElhinney may not have been any magic bullet there anyways. We should probably just accept that our 17-18 record was boosted by a career year from our old backup goalie.

Can't really blame Dubas for Andersen falling off like this, tho.....but then again, the longer he lets the issue linger, the more blame he deserves.

 

[ToneDog]

w/Andersen:

Pre-Dubas: 104pt pace (.918sv%)
Post-Dubas: 111pt pace (.912sv%)

Primary Backups:

Pre-Dubas (McElhinney): 96pt pace (.925sv%)
Post-Dubas (Campbell): 113pt pace (.917sv%)

Other Backups

Pre-Dubas: 47pt pace (.884sv%)
Post-Dubas: 65pt pace (.896sv%)

Clear and significant improvrment under Dubas masked by a huge drop in goaltending.

Dubas gets some blame for the drop in backup goaltending - though we should note that McElhinney hasn't come anywhere remotely close to that career .934sv% year he had with us, and has been back to his usual .910sv% self since leaving, so keeping McElhinney may not have been any magic bullet there anyways. We should probably just accept that our 17-18 record was boosted by a career year from our old backup goalie.

Can't really blame Dubas for Andersen falling off like this, tho.....but then again, the longer he lets the issue linger, the more blame he deserves.

You mean Dubas not Post Dubas. Not sure how you gathered your stats but I only see a .006 drop in sv% for Andy. Too small a sample size for Campbell although he has looked capable.

Not sure how you factor performance with games played in the North division. My guess is we have a lower winning% if we were playing teams from the Atlantic. Only 2 or 3 sad sacks out of 16 in the East while we are currently in a division with 2 or 3 sad sacks out of 7. No Bruins, Lighting, Caps, Flyers, Pens, Panthers, Canes, Jackets, Isles etc.

 

[zeke]

You mean Dubas not Post Dubas. Not sure how you gathered your stats but I only see a .006 drop in sv% for Andy. Too small a sample size for Campbell although he has looked capable.

Not sure how you factor performance with games played in the North division. My guess is we have a lower winning% if we were playing teams from the Atlantic. Only 2 or 3 sad sacks out of 16 in the East while we are currently in a division with 2 or 3 sad sacks out of 7. No Bruins, Lighting, Caps, Flyers, Pens, Panthers, Canes, Jackets, Isles etc.

Its funny what people call sad sack now when we're killing them, when before the season everyone was saying the likes of edm/cgy/van were every bit as good as the leafs and probably better.

Anyways, the new North division sample accounts for 7.3% of Dubas' total sample.

 

[Cor]

When you look at our defense, and it how it evolved over the course of the last 5, now entering 6 seasons, it's quite something.

Start of 2015-16: First season after Lou was hired; [Opening Night Pairings]
Hunwick - Phaneuf
Marincin - Rielly
Gardiner - Harrington
Ex. Polak, Corrado

End of 2017-18: Defense when Kyle Dubas replaced Lou Lamoriello as GM [3 seasons later]
Rielly - Hainsey
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Polak
Ex. Borgman, Carrick

Current Day: 2 seasons later
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Bogosian
Ex. Lehtonen, Sandin (Liljegren)

 

[ToneDog]

Its funny what people call sad sack now when we're killing them, when before the season everyone was saying the likes of edm/cgy/van were every bit as good as the leafs and probably better.

Well Habs (8-2-2) are killing them too. Before the season, it is all on paper. I definitely expected more from the Flames, Oilers and Canucks. Never expected the Canucks to be this bad after their playoff run last year but I did like the moves the Habs made and expected them to be our #1 foe.

 

[zeke]

When you look at our defense, and it how it evolved over the course of the last 5, now entering 6 seasons, it's quite something.

Start of 2015-16: First season after Lou was hired; [Opening Night Pairings]
Hunwick - Phaneuf
Marincin - Rielly
Gardiner - Harrington
Ex. Polak, Corrado

End of 2017-18: Defense when Kyle Dubas replaced Lou Lamoriello as GM [3 seasons later]
Rielly - Hainsey
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Polak
Ex. Borgman, Carrick

Current Day: 2 seasons later
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Bogosian
Ex. Lehtonen, Sandin (Liljegren)

Its hilarious.

Gardiner ---> Brodie
Hainsey -----> Muzzin
Zaitsev -------> Holl
Polak ---------> Bogosian

just a gargantuan upgrade on the blueline, for approximately the same price as a percentage of cap.

And even funnier when you realize that people praise LOU for knowing how to improve a team defensively, and criticize DUBAS for not understanding the importance of defense and toughness.

 

[zeke]

Well Habs (8-2-2) are killing them too. Before the season, it is all on paper. I definitely expected more from the Flames, Oilers and Canucks. Never expected the Canucks to be this bad after their playoff run last year but I did like the moves the Habs made and expected them to be our #1 foe.

Yep, Habs and Jets are killing those overrated pacific teams too....and the leafs have beat both of them.