Rumor: Dreger: Belief that Mason McTavish is going to be traded
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Anaheim4ever
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Then local Ottawa boy McTavish stays in Anaheim.
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robbieboy3686
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TommyDangles
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There's a lot of players that can put up points for a stretch. Mittelstadt had a few stretches like that. To be a 70-80 point guy you need more than that.
The team sucked when McTavish had a bigger role. Q had him lower in the lineup when the Ducks got good. He knew McTavish was a liability out there.
With my own eyes I've seen him take shifts off & float out there when he didn't have the puck. He's too reactive of a player. I just don't see him ever being a top end guy like that.
I agree, but I would argue that when it's 20 or 30+ games, that's at least a sign that the talent/ceiling is there. And he wouldn't be the first player to not have consistency by his 22/23 year old season.
He was playing with no one, and still put up good stretches. Playing on shit teams that get caved in is not an environment for putting up near point per game numbers for months at a time, unless you actually have talent.
He started out as their 2C ... And that was the Ducks' best line. In fact even over the full season, no line with significant minutes had a better xG%.
Q spread his scoring out. By the end, Gauthier was on the 3rd line ... Doesn't mean he was a liability.
A 23 year old took shifts off and floated? If that's a reason to get rid of a guy, you won't have (m)any young players left.
robbieboy3686
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RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
Oh and since you brought up Mittelstadt, I went back and looked at what he did at a similar age to see if he had managed multi-month stretches of looking like a low end 1C:
age 19/20: best month was 5 points in 9 games, no month over 6 points
age 20/21: best month 7 in 13 games
age 21/22: best month 13 in 16 games, no other month over 3 points
age 22/23: best month 9 in 14 games, then 7 in 14
So no, he did not demonstrate anything remotely close to McTavish at a comparable age. Never even got to a 20 game stretch, never mind 30+ games, near a ppg rate. At 23 years old, the two weren't even in the same zip code.
Mittelstadt's first season where he actually showed scoring line production for any real length of time was in the year he turned 24. McTavish doesn't turn 24 until next January.
age 19/20: best month was 5 points in 9 games, no month over 6 points
age 20/21: best month 7 in 13 games
age 21/22: best month 13 in 16 games, no other month over 3 points
age 22/23: best month 9 in 14 games, then 7 in 14
So no, he did not demonstrate anything remotely close to McTavish at a comparable age. Never even got to a 20 game stretch, never mind 30+ games, near a ppg rate. At 23 years old, the two weren't even in the same zip code.
Mittelstadt's first season where he actually showed scoring line production for any real length of time was in the year he turned 24. McTavish doesn't turn 24 until next January.
robbieboy3686
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Verbeek made some good trades when he was selling players. But his record recently has been pretty poor IMO. I hated the Carlson trade, Hated losing the 18OA pick which could have been used to get Kesselring. Hate that he appears to actively be trying to trade McTavish when his value is at its lowest. Hate that he put the team in an awful position of losing all 3 veteran RD at once. The only good trades he's made have been small reclamation projects in Trouba, Kreider, and Viel (and it looks like Trouba and Viel will walk). He hasn't made a trade that improved the team in the long run since Gauthier. His ability to actually build a team that can be a long term SC contender is very much in doubt right now IMO.
McTavish is not the answer to Ottawa's problem, they need to go big or go rebuild.
McTavish has yet to score over 55 points in the NHL.
How did the ducks get the pick to draft Stian Solberg? He seems like an important future piece. Was some sort of trade involved?
Like all rebuilding teams, the GM trades initially involve getting rid of older guys (which you admit were good trades), drafting the future core, and adding pieces via UFA and smaller trades. Verbeek gets full credit for drafting Carlsson and Sennecke when most draft people had Fantilli rated higher and Sennecke not rated in the top 3, not to mention the Cutter trade. Those were massive franchise changing moves. The Cutter trade was VERY unusual - young core players who are top 5 picks are almost never traded on their ELC or before - yet Verbeek grabbed him. Your expectation that Verbeek trade for future core pieces is unrealistic. That is not how teams are built.
Trouba, Kreider and Viel were MASSIVE wins for the ducks. The ducks acquired 3 useful players for virtually no cost. Trouba was certainly not a small addition - he was a top pairing D man. And even the Zegras trade was, in hindsight, really a good trade for the ducks given Zegras' fit on the team and contract demands.
Just because McTavish is being shopped doesn't mean he will be given away. Verbeek's track record in making trades is very good. I have no concerns that he'll make a bad trade. In fact, I'm in the minority in thinking McTavish won't be traded absent a massive overpay or a scenarios where a big piece (like Thomas or Larkin or Hronek) is the return. Time will tell.
Your comment that Verbeek doesn't know how to build a long term SC contender is pretty laughable. By all accounts, the ducks pipeline is one of the most admired by other GMs, pundits, and fan bases. It is fine to disagree, but you're taking the Carlson trade (which personally I liked, but I get the objections) and ignoring all of his other trades/draft picks/signings. That is not reasonable.
Assuming they keep the current core of LaCombe, Carlson, Cutter, and Sennecke (and hopefully Dostal), the ducks are set up for the next decade, particularly if McQueen develops and McTavish bounces back. The young d pipeline is unproven but the best pipeline in the league. And the Lacombe contract is going to be a huge win for the ducks - another Verbeek win.
What would you consider a solid off-season for Verbeek this summer? And if you say spending premium assets to acquire players whose age begins with a “3” then I’ll know all I need to know.
Pinto just finished 6th in Selke voting and is a 20 goal, 40-50 points defensive center with 4 more years at 7.5m
I'd want an asset bigger than McTavish to be the centerpiece of a deal involving Pinto. McTavish has not proven to be significantly better offensively and is nowhere close to Pinto defensively. I do not think Anaheim fans would be comfortable with the names we'd be asking for if you asked us for Pinto.
Despite the Tkachuk trade, we are still in our window of trying to complete, so any Pinto trade would need to make us better now.
It was a nice move up but those kinds of trades happen all the time. Should I congratulate him for doing his job.
I've not mentioned drafting at all in this thread other than to be pi$$ed that he literally gave away the 18OA pick this year which could have been used to actually satisfy a longer term need. Instead we got a bum who lasted 28 games.
Massive is hyperbole but they were good moves. The kind that I have applauded. You can go back through history and confirm that I've supported most of his moves until this year. Major exceptions were the horrible picks of Gaucher and Myatovic.
We'll see. But your threshold is so low for Verbeek success I doubt you'll complain about the trade even if it is for a 7th round pick in 2040.
The Carlson trade was Verbeek's first effort to get the team to the "next level". Short-term as it was. It was impatience and best and delusion at worst. It was a sop to ownership and an attempt to get a new contract (which succeeded...whoopee for him). The current roster is worse than it was 2 months ago and Verbeek will have to spend some serious assets just to get back to the level the team was at in April. You'll call that progress but it will be treading water and leaking assets that can't be easily replaced.
If this were basketball then I'd agree with you. Four players makes for a great BB team but maybe not a great hockey team. Just ask TML fans. The team is missing serious depth at all positions. 26 RW wins this past year. Only 5 teams had fewer.
Unlike you, I'll answer your question directly and in good faith.
The first priority is to sign Carlson and Cutter early and to fair deals. Viel is pretty important too given that Johnston will hopefully depart, but he should be pretty easy to sign.
I'd try to find a new home for Kreider or Vatrano - or possibly both. I think Frank bounces back, but not sure the ducks will give him a chance for a top 9 role with skilled offensive players, which is what he needs. I think Kreider is a bigger problem because I doubt he accepts playing down in the lineup. They may have to buy him out.
Personally, I've been very lukewarm to negative on trading for Parayko - precisely because of his age/contract and the likely acquisition cost. For RHD, I expect them to bring back Trouba (after he shops a little bit) and then trade for a low cost RHD stop gap player like Dougie Hamilton or Lyubushkin (or possibly Spurgeon or another cap driven deal). I'd also be fine signing/acquiring one veteran RHD and letting the young RHD have a crack at the lineup. I'd kick the tires on Hronek too. Just to be clear, for me it is either Trouba or Parayko - not both. I don't want two older RHD with term on their deals.
I would not be in favor of trading the 2027 first round pick, McQueen, Solberg, or other top futures unless the return was a player like Thomas (i.e., a youngish 1C or 1 D with term on their contract).
I would trade McTavish only if it is a hockey trade for a player like Larkin or someone the same age or younger than Larkin. Ideally, McTavish and Zell would be packaged in that type of trade. I could also see a trade where McTavish brings back futures (i.e., draft picks from Ottawa) and those are packaged for those type of players. But I'm perfectly fine bringing back McTavish. As I posted above, this assumes Verbeek feels he'd bounce back with different off season trading (which I do).
Bottom line - Verbeek will have had a successful off season if he signs Leo/Cutter without holdouts, signs at least one veteran RHD, and culls the herd a bit with players like Vatrano/Kreider and possibly McT/Zell. Given Terry's injury, it would be good to add a top 6 forward, but perhaps Vatrano is already that guy. I don't think he has to make big moves for the team to improve.
I’m good with that answer. Any improvement would be organic which I’m fine with and you aren’t recommending any stupid trades. We are closer than you think. I’d be happy if verbeek took that approach. I just don’t think he will. Hope I’m wrong.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case. The complainant decries "bad trades" and asserts that the gm is incompetent, but says that the gm gets no credit for good trades, good signings, and good drafting which are just part of the job.
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The Carlson trade was a calculated bet. I think Verbeek, ownership, and most ducks fans would make that trade again. Most, unlike you, feel that Carlson was a key part of making the playoffs and winning the first round. Most, unlike you, think it was important that the ducks make the playoffs and hopefully win a round. The fact that you disagree doesn't make Verbeek a bad GM for doing what ownership and most people wanted him to do.
It is fine for you to disagree. It is not reasonable to constantly attack Verbeek and then, when challenged, to minimize or ignore the evidence that counters your narrative that he makes made bad decisions/trades. He's not been perfect, but he's been pretty damn good. You're distaste for the Carlson trade is turning into Verbeek derangement syndrome.
A 1C, 1D, and solid goalie are necessary but not sufficient to be a SC contender. The ducks seemingly have those (Dostal TBD). And for the record, I never said the core players I identified were alone sufficient. As noted, the ducks pipeline is universally regarded as one of the tops in the league. Assuming normal development of the younger players (i.e., some hits and some misses), the roster depth will be there and there will be cap space to add.
