Injury Report: Drake Batherson Ankle Injury

[Micklebot]

I mean, you absolutely can do that. Just in the last 12 hours I've seen many videos of players doing just that. Heck, 2 of them were Ottawa related.

Andre Roy had no problem going to Felix Potvin and cross checking him and starting a brawl after Felix Potvin slashed him. Roy stepped up to Felix like he was any skater that slashed him.

Do you remember Andrew Peter's fighting Emery and people were ok with it because Emery was known to get involved in the rough stuff?

There's a difference between Roy losing his cool and fighting a goalie that hit him and a third party going after a goalie in retaliation.

As for Emery, he was very much a willing combatant, he had already fought Biron in a one sided affair and was going after him for a second tilt when Peters stepped in. It's not comparable to jumping a goalie for a pick play gone wrong, which was admittedly very reckless on Dell's part.

 

[jbeck5]

There's a difference between Roy losing his cool and fighting a goalie that hit him and a third party going after a goalie in retaliation.

As for Emery, he was very much a willing combatant, he had already fought Biron in a one sided affair and was going after him for a second tilt when Peters stepped in. It's not comparable to jumping a goalie for a pick play gone wrong, which was admittedly very reckless on Dell's part.

Not really. Plenty of times the retaliation is from a teammate..not sure where you get this idea that the message must be sent by the victim himself instead of any of his teammates.

It's not the exact same situation, but it's very comparable. Both instances you have a goalie you want to fight, that has a history of liking the physical violent stuff. If anything there is more reason this time, because there's an injury on the play. Biron wasn't injured at all. Even less of a reason to want to fight Emery, and yet it was ok. No suspension.

 

[Micklebot]

Not really. Plenty of times the retaliation is from a teammate..not sure where you get this idea that the message must be sent by the victim himself instead of any of his teammates.

goalies are different, that's kind of the point here.

It's not the exact same situation, but it's very comparable. Both instances you have a goalie you want to fight,

wanting to fight a goalie isn't a determining factor in whether it's ok to go instigate a fight with a goalie

that has a history of liking the physical violent stuff.

Emery had already indicated he was ready to drop gloves, he was a willing combatant, that's not the same as saying Tkachuks was justified to instigate a fight with Dell who may or may not have been willing to accept the challenge

If anything there is more reason this time, because there's an injury on the play. Biron wasn't injured at all. Even less of a reason to want to fight Emery, and yet it was ok. No suspension.

Injury is unfortunate, but Agree to disagree I guess. I see the two scenarios as very different. One is protecting Biron from another beatdown from a very willing combatant, the other is retaliation for a past play. Goalie fights are dangerous for the goalie, they can easily get tangled up and injured which can screw a team, they are in no way the same as a skater having to defend themselves. Dell was reckless, but unless he's going Hextall on Nilsson where there was clear intent to injure, there's not really a reason he should be forced to fight. DOPS will have to take care of Dell. Player vs Goalie fights are so rare because they are not generally acceptable.

 

[jbeck5]

goalies are different, that's kind of the point here.

wanting to fight a goalie isn't a determining factor in whether it's ok to go instigate a fight with a goalie Emery had already indicated he was ready to drop gloves, he was a willing combatant, that's not the same as saying Tkachuks was justified to instigate a fight with Dell who may or may not have been willing to accept the challenge

Injury is unfortunate, but Agree to disagree I guess. I see the two scenarios as very different. One is protecting Biron from another beatdown from a very willing combatant, the other is retaliation for a past play. Goalie fights are dangerous for the goalie, they can easily get tangled up and injured which can screw a team, they are in no way the same as a skater having to defend themselves. Dell was reckless, but unless he's going Hextall on Nilsson where there was clear intent to injure, there's not really a reason he should be forced to fight. DOPS will have to take care of Dell. Player vs Goalie fights are so rare because they are not generally acceptable.

Wanting to fight the goalie is a determining factor in whether they do end up fighting the goalie.

Emery was done fighting Biron. He was basically just sitting on top of him holding him down like "you done? I clearly won". There was no future beat down that Peter's was protecting Biron from. Peters basically saw his teammate get beat up and thought "now it's my turn to beat him up, and he likes rough stuff, so he won't back down" and went to challenge him.

Wouldn't be much different for tkachuk to think "you injured my teammate, and now it's my turn to get you back. You like the rough stuff and repeatedly hit unsuspecting players so maybe you won't back down" and challenge him to a fight just like Peter's did to emery.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

(I wonder if I'm his source or he found out from someone else. )

...but Bruce had the MRI pointing out a high strain at 10 pm

GDT: - Sabres vs Senators - 7PM - TV - Revenge of the Snes

 

[Micklebot]

Emery was done fighting Biron. He was basically just sitting on top of him holding him down like "you done? I clearly won".

This just isn't true. You should go watch that again. Biron tripped Emery after he had gotten off, Biron got up, then Emery got up and started showing he was ready for round two, both were standing when Peters came.

Peters very clearly was coming to stop a second beatdown by his clearly outmatched goalie.

Not at all the same nor were the events at all as you described them

 

[jbeck5]

This just isn't true. You should go watch that again. Biron tripped Emery after he had gotten off, Biron got up, then Emery got up and started showing he was ready for round two, both were standing when Peters came.

Peters very clearly was coming to stop a second beatdown by his clearly outmatched goalie.

Not at all the same nor were the events at all as you described them

You're right about the trip, I forgot about that, just rewatched it.

But I was right that he wasn't preventing another beat down. Emery got tripped and was literally just laughing as he fell and laughing as he got up. If Biron skated away he would have been fine..

Peters just grabs Emery and they go. Tkachuk should have just grabbed dell and went with him. Dell was laughing just like emery was. Very similar situations indeed.

The more we talk about It, the more similarities I can think of.

Remember, a comparison isn't an exact mirror situation. It's a different situations that have enough similarities to compare them.

-Both potential challengers are bigger and more fighting experience than the goalie? Check. (Peters is bigger than Emery and tkachuk is bigger than dell)

-both goalies had just finished beating up or injuring their teammate? Check. (Emery just beat up Biron and dell just injured batherson)

-both goalies had history of getting involved in the physical stuff? Check. (Both goalies have countless YouTube videos of physical instances)

-both goalies were all smiles and grinning while confronted? Check. (Emery was all smiles towards Peters and dell was all smiles at tkachuk)

Like sure, you can explain how the situations aren't exact, but there are enough similarities that the majority would be ok with tkachuk challenging dell.

I mean, dell can decline and all the Buffalo guys jump tkachuk and tkachuk can just beat up a player then skate to dell and say "he's got a bloody face because of you".

I mean, what would Neil do? Probably start a scrum and try to get after the goalie like players target star players during scrums, or he would beat someone else who came to the defense of the goalie.

 

[TkachukMyAho]

Haha I was just trying to come up with a more severe example to prove a point.

Sometimes acts of violence call for a violent response. The ones responding shouldn't be blamed for responding. That's all I was trying to say haha.

The extra damage caused by the response is often preferable to the continuous damage that would be caused by the original culprit being unchecked.

I was just saying I think context is required. Everyone knows that is bullshit, but who has more to lose? Because no one really wins after a huge brawl.

I feel old. Message to my younger self lol.

 

[jbeck5]

I was just saying I think context is required. Everyone knows that is bullshit, but who has more to lose? Because no one really wins after a huge brawl.

I feel old. Message to my younger self lol.

The sens have gotten in many big brawls and it always seems to bring the team together.

Has there ever been a senators brawl that you thought really hurt the sens long term? Not talking about a fighter breaking a finger in a fight and being out 2 weeks.

 

[armani]

This just isn't true. You should go watch that again. Biron tripped Emery after he had gotten off, Biron got up, then Emery got up and started showing he was ready for round two, both were standing when Peters came.

Peters very clearly was coming to stop a second beatdown by his clearly outmatched goalie.

Not at all the same nor were the events at all as you described them

As it was, St. Andrew Peters went after a goalie who had just finished a fight (and there was no supplementary discipline if my memory serves me well). The old Sens with Neil and McGrattan (who fought Emery in practice lol as roomies) would have gone after Dell. The current Sens did not retaliate in any physical way last night. For all that talk by management about Team Identity and the supposed "tough" team they are building, they did not even respond at the tail end of the game up by 4. Not saying someone should have outright jumped Dell, but there was just nil response.

I hope other teams don't start taking liberties on the young Sens thinking of no repercussions.

The Sens won the game, but lost a lot more in Batherson being out a long-term based on a gutless move by a dirty player. Some fans are angry, knowing that in the past this type of aggressions would have been dealt with on ice by the players.

 

[Micklebot]

You're right about the trip, I forgot about that, just rewatched it.

But I was right that he wasn't preventing another beat down. Emery got tripped and was literally just laughing as he fell and laughing as he got up. If Biron skated away he would have been fine..

Peters just grabs Emery and they go. Tkachuk should have just grabbed dell and went with him. Dell was laughing just like emery was. Very similar situations indeed.

Razer was definately going after him for round two, he was in a fighting stance and was advancing towards him

Like I said, agree to disagree, I don't see Emery vs Peter's at all analogous to a hypothetical player challenging Dell.

 

[Dominance]

f*** this league, Batherson was proving this season that he deserves to be considered among the league’s elite players.

High ankle sprain is devastating but not worst case scenario. The speed at which he hit the boards and the way his leg bent made me initially think he could have completely blown apart his knee and had his career cut short.

 

[jbeck5]

Razer was definately going after him for round two, he was in a fighting stance and was advancing towards him

Like I said, agree to disagree, I don't see Emery vs Peter's at all analogous to a hypothetical player challenging Dell.

I edited my response to add a lot and list the similarities.

I'm not saying someone should have jumped dell. I'm saying someone should have challenged him and it would force his teammate to get into a fight he didn't want to...or drop the gloves himself. Whatever, it's up to him, but there should have been a response from Ottawa.

 

[Micklebot]

As it was, St. Andrew Peters went after a goalie who had just finished a fight (and there was no supplementary discipline if my memory serves me well). The old Sens with Neil and McGratton (who fought Emery in practice lol as roomies) would have gone after Dell. The current Sens did not retaliate in any physical way last night. For all that talk by management about Team Identity and the supposed "tough" team they are building, they did not even respond at the tail end of the game up by 4. Not saying someone should have outright jumped Dell, but there was just nil response.

I hope other teams don't start taking liberties on the young Sens thinking of no repercussions.

The Sens won the game, but lost a lot more in Batherson being out a long-term based on a gutless move by a dirty player. Some fans are angry, knowing that in the past this type of aggressions would have been dealt with on ice by the players.

Why would there be supplemental discipline? Emery was a willing combatant.

Whether Neil or McGratten would have gone after Dell, who knows. I get it, people want their pound of flesh but it's not realistic to expect guys to instigate fights with goalies.

 

[armani]

Why would there be supplemental discipline? Emery was a willing combatant.

Whether Neil or McGratten would have gone after Dell, who knows. I get it, people want their pound of flesh but it's not realistic to expect guys to instigate fights with goalies.

Usually. But the dirty play by Aaron Dell was anything but business as usual, and it won't have been the first or last time someone would have gone after a goalie as you are likely aware. I know the Sens of yesteryears with Neil around won't have taken it lightly. Nothing fair about the hit, nothing fair about what happens afterwards. Wasn't the case last night for the Sens.

And to be clear, I am not calling this team a bunch of wussies. The incident happened before the end of the period, so DJ obviously had discussion in the locker room about that. They decided to ignore the injury to arguably their best player this season and focused on carrying on the 3-0 lead. If you re-read my post you are replying to, it's really this nil response, i.e. as if nothing happened, that's bothering the lot. I hope other teams don't think it's ok to take liberties on the Sens, and I hope the Sens learn that incidents like this won't fly and sometimes you gotta get your hands dirty to keep dirt bags in check.

 

[aragorn]

I'm disappointed in the team tbh, I think they should have gone after Dell, whether they ran him or jumped him would make no difference, just do something. But having said that there is also this woke society we live in that the "take fighting out of hockey crowd" would have denouced especially if someone would have gotten really hurt in the fight. If they didn't go after the goalie should they have gone after Dahlen? I don't know, I would have gone after the goalie myself.

It can go both ways that while the "code" in hockey is to take care of it on the ice, we have also seen the Moore/Bertuzzi & McSorely/Brashear instances turn against the team/player who sought retribution. It's a fine line, but there is always the possibility that something worse could result from trying to get retribution, but I still think they should have done more than they did for sure. But let's not let the refs off the hook either, they should be suspended or fined or something for incompetence for not giving Dell a match penalty for the cowardly gutless hit on a vulnerable player.

 

[NyQuil]

...but Bruce had the MRI pointing out a high strain at 10 pm

GDT: - Sabres vs Senators - 7PM - TV - Revenge of the Snes

My post was at 9:59 PM

EDIT: Ah, he beat me by 8 minutes at 9:51. I have to check when my text arrived.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Yeah, but it was still Peter's who skated to him while emery was still engaged with Biron. Peters basically said "get up, you're fighting me now" and people knew emery liked the rough stuff.

I think it's obvious from all the clips that dell likes the rough stuff. He's got 49 PIMs on his stat card. That's a lot for a goalie. So no reason we couldn't have a guy go to him and say "now you gotta fight me" and drop the gloves and start throwing punches.

When Watson "accidentally on purpose" fell into Dell which created the scrum by the net, I have no doubt that's when Ottawa was planning to get their shots in on Dell, but he skated away immediately from the scrum and didn't come back to his crease until it was over.

So no, I don't think Dell likes the rough stuff at all. I think he likes to hit guys without repercussions. There's really nothing they can do outside of someone chasing him down to forcefully fight (which he probably would've turtled), or running him, which probably would've resulted in a suspension for whatever Sens player decided to do that.

 

[jbeck5]

When Watson "accidentally on purpose" fell into Dell which created the scrum by the net, I have no doubt that's when Ottawa was planning to get their shots in on Dell, but he skated away immediately from the scrum and didn't come back to his crease until it was over.

So no, I don't think Dell likes the rough stuff at all. I think he likes to hit guys without repercussions. There's really nothing they can do outside of someone chasing him down to forcefully fight (which he probably would've turtled), or running him, which probably would've resulted in a suspension for whatever Sens player decided to do that.

Fair. I'd probably go with the option of challenging him and having him turtle. Just keep feeding him to the side and back of the head until all the sabres jump in and then scrum/line brawl and take the instigator penalty. And then play hockey.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Fair. I'd probably go with the options of challenging him and having him turtle. Just keep feeding him to the side and back of the head until all the sabres jump in and then scrum/line brawl and take the instigator penalty. And then play hockey.

Would've been nice to see, but that would almost certainly result in a suspension in today's league, and I'm guessing none of the players are willing to do that, and I doubt DJ would ever ask his players to go risk getting suspended.

Maybe if Buffalo is stupid enough to play Dell in our next meeting, we call up Sabourin and whatever knuckleheads from the AHL/ECHL we have and jump the goalie.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Your teammate should know you guys are brothers and stick up for each other no matter what. He won't blame you. He chose to join in just like you did. He could have walked away just like you could have.

Him jumping in to defend you is exactly what you did for your other teammate, which is exactly what all players should understand needs to happen. No one is to blame but the guy who initiated everything with the first cheap shot.

Use real world comparables. When Germany invades Poland, do we just turn the other cheek, or do we stand up for each other even if it means many will die? Should we blame the Canadian government for having us join the war or should we understand that it's what needed to be done?

Well, that’s not really how that all went down. A series of alliances pulled everyone in in defence of Poland, and we didn’t really do anything until France was invaded and fell. We shouldn’t pretend as though we were itching to defend Eastern Europe from the get go; we weren’t. Remember, the western world were perfectly fine sitting back and watching Czechoslovakia fall, and the US waited until the Germans forced their hands before joining in.

Newfoundlanders also didn’t have that grand choice either since they were still a colony of Britain.

I think it’s humorous to pass a bunch of judgement on what is so very clearly an extremely close group of guys. Post game video of Watson is just the most recent example. DJ also came out and told the guys not to run the goalie as there could be consequences in terms of suspensions and fines. Instead they ramped up the physical game by several notches, shelled Dell and poked, prodded, and fell on him, and shut out the listless Sabers.

 

[jbeck5]

Would've been nice to see, but that would almost certainly result in a suspension in today's league, and I'm guessing none of the players are willing to do that, and I doubt DJ would ever ask his players to go risk getting suspended.

Maybe if Buffalo is stupid enough to play Dell in our next meeting, we call up Sabourin and whatever knuckleheads from the AHL/ECHL we have and jump the goalie.

Yeah. I think that only got carkner one game. Might be worth it haha.

 

[swiftwin]

Not saying someone should have outright jumped Dell, but there was just nil response.

I don't know if there was nil response. Tkachuk went right up to his face on the next shift and gave him a stern talking to. Watson gave him a solid whack in the 2nd period and got a penalty for it.

Beyond that, the boys had a little extra step in their game for periods 2 and 3. Shots were 11-11 after the first, but were 17-11 in the 2nd and 19-10 in the 3rd. Scored 2 more goals and secured the shutout.

If you're not jumping him (and risking a suspension), what else can you do?

I also thought the refs put on a clinic in terms keeping things under control. They went to both benches at the beginning of the 2nd period and gave both teams a lengthy talk before the period started. Then another lengthy talk after the Watson/Dahlin penalties. They also started calling lots of random penalties late in the 3rd period to keep both teams' special teams out, and reduce the chance of retaliation.

 

[Caeldan]

I don't know if there was nil response. Tkachuk went right up to his face on the next shift and gave him a stern talking to. Watson gave him a solid whack in the 2nd period and got a penalty for it.

If you're not jumping him, what else can you do?

I also thought the refs put on a clinic in terms keeping things under control. They went to both benches at the beginning of the 2nd period and gave both teams a lengthy talk before the period started. Then another lengthy talk after the Watson/Dahlin penalties. They also started calling lots of random penalties late in the 3rd period to keep both teams' special teams out, and reduce the chance of retaliation.

Typically as soon as the refs talk to both benches in any game where fireworks are expected, nothing happens. Not sure what the threats are but they seem to carry weight

 

[SENSational]

What a dirty play. Completely and utterly unnecessary. You can tell a lot about someone's character with the way they react to stressful situations. This asshole was getting lit up so he decides hurt someone just because he's angry.