MessierII
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Ok but to pretend Kucherov had some massive disadvantage in teammates is ridiculous. He played on an absolutely stacked team.
Draisaitls 128 point campaign.
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- Jul 30, 2016
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I'm not saying he had a massive disadvantage, but I do think McDavid will help your stats more than his linemates (especially since Kucherov lead his team in points). It doesn't mean what Draisaitl did this year isn't impressive. I just bring it up because their seasons are being compared to one another when the context behind both seasons is different.
MessierII
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The only other player to outscore Mc David in a full season is draisaitl. The bolts had way more talent throughout their lineup and the best D man in the league playing half the game with them.
Mr Positive
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- Nov 20, 2013
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But how is it different to give credit to McDavid than it is to give credit to an amazing surrounding cast? Kucherov has had the benefit of a better team that will get him pucks quickly and pass them to him, and make space for him, etc
I'm not saying Kucherov isn't an amazing player but it's just a fact that great players have to be great to take advantage of a great situation and turn that into a season like what Kucherov or Draisaitl have done.
Also, it's not like McDavid is just a giant plus modifier who elevates everyone. If a player doesn't gel with him than they don't look good. Draisaitl gels with him so well because he has the skills and the brain to keep up with him. It's not a point against Drai that he plays well with McDavid
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- Jul 30, 2016
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Throughout their lineup yes but as far as actual linemates, I still think McDavid makes more of a difference. 128 as your team's leading scorer and an art ross (even if McDavid played the extra 4 games, he wouldn't have scored 12 points) is more impressive to me. It's not like Hedman was at his best that year anyway, he had 54 points, it wasn't some offensive masterclass.
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I agree with your points. My point is that leading your team in scoring by 30 points is more impressive than finishing 2nd in points with a 3rd best peak of all time in McDavid. I do think McDavid is a giant plus modifier tbh tho: he's boosted Hyman, Nugent Hopkins, Patrick Maroon and others throughout his career with all of them having career years on his line. Draisaitl is still great and a 110 point player on his own but I do think what Kucherov did in 2019 was more impressive imo. I'm not taking anything away from Draisaitl, I'm just giving Kucherov credit where it's due.
KevinFinnerty
I bomb atomically...
How would the Oilers have won the Presidents trophy if not for Boston if Vegas is in your conference and had a better record?
- Jul 30, 2016
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True but Kucherov beat a prime McDavid in the scoring race and outscored the next closest linemate by 30 points. I'd say that's more impressive than finishing 2nd in team scoring while your linemate has arguably the best season in 30 years. Either way, Draisaitl is still an amazing player
MessierII
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You make it sound like drai are glued together as linemates. They play more apart than together.
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MessierII
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Just like stamkos, hedman, point and kucherov were all on the same pp
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The Oilers had the best pp in league history and the best player in 30 years. Hedman wasn't the 70 point dynamo and Kucherov was the facilitator. Kucherov made his teammates better just like McDavid did. I'm not here to argue that Draisaitl is nothing without McDavid, I still think he'd be a 110 point player without him. Just like Kucherov was a 128 point player as the best player on his team. I don't think it's unreasonable to say a 128 point art ross winner who beat a prime mcdavid was more impressive than a 128 point player who played with McDavid.
Duke74
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Grammar aside, I struggle to find logic in your posts. We have repeatedly told you that McDavid and Draisaitl play on SEPARATE LINES. Unless McDavid has some kind of magic sorcery to will Draisaitl to score from the bench. It's Matthews that's a great backpack for Marner. It's a fancy and fashionable backpack...or purse...I'll give you that, but it's still a backpack. Oh, and don't bring out the injured wrist excuse because Draisaitl went 2PPG on one leg last postseason.
McPoyle
Start breaking bricks wet nips
This highlights the versatility of Drai's game to me. His default as a centre at 5v5 is to be one of the best playmakers in the game. On the PP he will switch it up and unleash his league best finishing ability and score goals at will. Very few players in league history have possessed such an elite combination of offensive talent.
He probably would have had 10 more points if he hadn't been recovering from the ankle sprain for the first half of the year.
Bank Shot
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People that year were trying to downplay Kucherov's team. Saying things like it's harder to rack up big points on a stacked team because you don't get all the offensive chances. Other players take away the primo scoring minutes etc.
Folks were stating that McDavid and Draisaitl would probably score less on a stacked team because the other good players would take away some of the top opportunities to score.
Now that McDavid and Draisaitl are on a stacked team and blowing away the competition its just because they are on a better team than the Lightning core that won two Cups?
Ok.....
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Bank Shot
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Well you're essentially saying that McDavid is responsible for Draisaitl's increased scoring and Kucherov had less help.
I think what actually happens is wagon teams increase everyone's scoring. Kucherov's team that year had 325 goals (The same as the Oilers this season). Was it all Kucherov or was he a beneficiary of everyone finishing?
McDavid wasn't scoring 150 points when he was doing it by himself either. He certainly has less points if he doesn't have Draisaitl sniping 30 on the PP.
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It's not a one way street but I think it's pretty safe to assume McDavid helps his teammates score more points. This has been the case with Maroon, Hyman and Nugent Hopkins. Why wouldn't it play a role in Draisaitl's numbers as well?
Sure Kucherov has good linemates, but he outscored the next closest by 30 points. It appears to me that he's the reason Stamkos and Point scored at the rate they did. Just look at their numbers in 20-21 when Kucherov missed the season vs their numbers when he's there.
Obviously, Draisaitl helps McDavid as well but it's one thing to play with McDavid vs playing with Point and a post-injury Stamkos. Kucherov was the driving factor and beat a prime mcdavid in the art ross race. That has to count for something. It doesn't mean Draisaitl isn't a great player, it just means Kucherov had the better season imo
Trafalgar Sadge Law
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And why exactly did Edmonton have the best PP in league history? Could it be that maybe, just maybe, the player with the 2nd most power play goals in a season in NHL history was a driving force?
Whatever gap you think there is between McDavid and Point, it's sure as hell made up for the gap between Stamkos/Hedman over RNH/Nurse. Even Kucherov's token mediocre linemate that season in Tyler Johnson was better than Draisaitl's equivalent in Yamamoto.
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The gap between Point and McDavid is huge, not to mention the fact that Hedman had 54 points in Kucherov's 128 point season. He was great defensively but his offensive numbers weren't that high. And maybe with Yamamoto that's true ES wise but like I said earlier, he had 62 ppp playing with McDavid. Of course, he had something to do with the numbers being so high, I've repeatedly said he's a top 3-4 player in the league. But Kucherov was the best player in the league that year, outscored his closest linemate by 30 points, and even beat McDavid in scoring. That counts for something.
Trafalgar Sadge Law
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I can buy Kucherov's season being more impressive than Draisaitl's but the teammate argument aint it. The gap between McDavid and Point is gargantuan, but so is the gap between Stamkos+Miller+Hedman over, say, RNH+Yamamoto+Nurse. Draisaitl plays the majority of his even strength shifts with some combination of RNH/Hyman/Yamamoto/Foegele/Puljujarvi, only really getting McDavid when the team is in a deficit and we're trying to stack the line to cheat for offense.
Trafalgar Sadge Law
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I mean don't you think Matthews is better than McDavid too? If McDavid is strapping this Draisaitl guy to higher point totals than Matthews, what does that say about McDavid vs Matthews?
