Proposal: Draisaitl to Ottawa (to be with Stutzle)

[CycloneSweep]

Again what are you even saying with the bolded ?

Carson was not the basis for the Gretzky trade... it was the equivalent of FIVE 1st round picks and it was still too little.

A 4th overall was not the basis for the Lindros trade it was: THREE SOLID NHLers, THREE 1st Round equivalents, plus Simon and Huffman. Hextall was a legit #1 goalie, Ricci was considered one of the best checking centers in the league, Duchesne was at worst a #2 Dman... Simon was a young enforcer who'd just scored 16 goals... Forsberg was the best prospect not named Lindros according to THN and two first rounders on top if it.

I'm not going to comment on Hossa at all... that trade was as a RENTAL!!! He was a UFA and signed that summer with Detroit.

C'mon man...

Comparable from Ottawa for Drai would be like, Tkachuk, Chabot, 2 firsts

 

[KevinRedkey]

Comparable from Ottawa for Drai would be like, Tkachuk, Chabot, 2 firsts

You're forgetting it's Drai on the trade block, and not 'trying to pry Drai away'.

I agree that's probably what Ottawa would need to offer if they wanted Ken Holland to start listening right now. Ottawa says no though. So that offer would never be on the table.

 

[ElPrimeTime]

You're forgetting it's Drai on the trade block, and not 'trying to pry Drai away'.

I agree that's probably what Ottawa would need to offer if they wanted Ken Holland to start listening right now. Ottawa says no though. So that offer would never be on the table.

Why is Drai on the trade block?

 

[KevinRedkey]

Again what are you even saying with the bolded ?

Carson was not the basis for the Gretzky trade... it was the equivalent of FIVE 1st round picks and it was still too little.

A 4th overall was not the basis for the Lindros trade it was: THREE SOLID NHLers, THREE 1st Round equivalents, plus Simon and Huffman. Hextall was a legit #1 goalie, Ricci was considered one of the best checking centers in the league, Duchesne was at worst a #2 Dman... Simon was a young enforcer who'd just scored 16 goals... Forsberg was the best prospect not named Lindros according to THN and two first rounders on top if it.

I'm not going to comment on Hossa at all... that trade was as a RENTAL!!! He was a UFA and signed that summer with Detroit.

C'mon man...

It's strange how you can somehow understand that Hossa's value was lower as a rental, but you can't seem to comprehend that Drai's return is diminished by being on the trade block in this scenario.

I literally put Hossa in there to show this. lol

 

[KevinRedkey]

Why is Drai on the trade block?

In my original post I said IF (I literally even said it was a huge IF) he were on the trade block, that (Tkachuk, Norris, 1st) would be among the best offers they receive.

Big difference between that and reality, because in reality no one would give up what would be needed to pry Drai from the Oilers.

 

[CycloneSweep]

In my original post I said IF (I literally even said it was a huge IF) he were on the trade block, that (Tkachuk, Norris, 1st) would be among the best offers they receive.

Big difference between that and reality, because in reality no one would give up what would be needed to pry Drai from the Oilers.

If Draisaitl was in the trade block there would be a bidding war.
Karlsson went for a better package than Tkachuk, Norris, 1st

 

[KevinRedkey]

If Draisaitl was in the trade block there would be a bidding war.
Karlsson went for a better package than Tkachuk, Norris, 1st

In hindsight, sure but not at the time.

The late picks became very early, and Norris progressed much more than anticipated. The overwhelming consensus at the time was that Ottawa got hosed. Now, everyone thinks the opposite because hindsight is 20/20

As for the bidding war - no one seems to have beaten the Sens 'offer' yet. Funny how that works.

 

[bucks_oil]

It's strange how you can somehow understand that Hossa's value was lower as a rental, but you can't seem to comprehend that Drai's return is diminished by being on the trade block in this scenario.

I literally put Hossa in there to show this. lol

Again... what are you talking about?

Having a guy on the trade block does not crater his fundamental value. He's still signed @ $8.5M for the foreseeable future.

Surely you are not suggesting that a signed Hossa is worth the same as a UFA rental Hossa?

Lindros was on the block... it was widely known. Did that crater his return? (and where did you get the idea that the 4th overall was a key part of that trade?... honest question, were you not a hockey fan then?... didn't know who Hextall and Duschene and Ricci were? Quebec already had Sakic and the other key parts of their rebuild... they wanted legit NHL talent AND futures... and they got BOTH)

 

[Hale The Villain]

If Draisaitl was in the trade block there would be a bidding war.
Karlsson went for a better package than Tkachuk, Norris, 1st

Karlsson got way less than that package. Not even close.

Norris - looked like a future 3rd liner
Tierney - youngish 3rd liner
Balcers - potential 3rd liner
DeMelo - bottom pairing D
1st
2nd
+ some conditional picks, which added another 2nd

Sens got lucky that Norris turned out better than they expected and extremely lucky the Sharks fell apart AND that their pick won a lottery selection.

If the Sharks had offered a comparable proven young top 6 forward with top line potential (eg. Meier) alone I'm sure Dorion would have taken it instead of a bunch of question marks, but no one was reportedly offering up a single asset above a B prospect or a 1st round pick.

It was a pretty lame return for one of the best D in the league at the time, and should be used as a reminder that star players often return less than people expect.

 

[CycloneSweep]

In hindsight, sure but not at the time.

The late picks became very early, and Norris progressed much more than anticipated. The overwhelming consensus at the time was that Ottawa got hosed. Now, everyone thinks the opposite because hindsight is 20/20

Still Tkachuk, Norris, 1st is still too little for Draisaitl. Especially because with the cap implications it doesn’t make sense. Tkachuk will be getting Drai money right away and Norris will be getting a bit too. So the Oilers would be paying like 6mill more than Draisaitl for less production and a first.
The trade would have to be like, Tkachuk, Norris, Sanderson, 1st for Draisaitl, Keith, Kassian

 

[Czechboy]

Isn't Tkachuk looking to be paid the same as Drai? This would actually cost us cap space after signing him and you'd have drai and we would have the weaker Tkachuk in the battle of Alberta. Hard pass.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It's not much bigger than Norris + a top5/10 pick.

Yes... yes it is.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It's strange how you can somehow understand that Hossa's value was lower as a rental, but you can't seem to comprehend that Drai's return is diminished by being on the trade block in this scenario.

I literally put Hossa in there to show this. lol

Draisaitl isn't a rental and Edmonton doesn't have him anywhere near the trading block. What the hell are you talking about?

Karlsson got way less than that package. Not even close.

Norris - looked like a future 3rd liner
Tierney - youngish 3rd liner
Balcers - potential 3rd liner
DeMelo - bottom pairing D
1st
2nd
+ some conditional picks, which added another 2nd

Sens got lucky that Norris turned out better than they expected and extremely lucky the Sharks fell apart AND that their pick won a lottery selection.

If the Sharks had offered a comparable proven young top 6 forward with top line potential (eg. Meier) alone I'm sure Dorion would have taken it instead of a bunch of question marks, but no one was reportedly offering up a single asset above a B prospect or a 1st round pick.

It was a pretty lame return for one of the best D in the league at the time, and should be used as a reminder that star players often return less than people expect.

Karlsson was also approaching the last year of a contract while wanting a monster raise and having been hit by a couple massive injuries on a team owned by the cheapest owner in the NHL.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Draisaitl isn't a rental and Edmonton doesn't have him anywhere near the trading block. What the hell are you talking about?

Not my fault you're not up to speed in the thread. We are talking about a hypothetical where Drai is being shopped.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Again... find me a better offer. You seem to think GMs are lining up to trade their top guys. They aren't... even for Drai. And one massive difference in reality vs this scenario is Drai being shopped.

Gretzky:
Traded from Edmonton Oilers with Mike Krushelnyski and Marty McSorley to Los Angeles Kings for Jimmy Carson, Martin Gelinas, round 1 pick in the 1989 draft (Jason Miller), round 1 pick in the 1991 draft (Martin Rucinsky), round 1 pick in the 1993 draft (Nick Stajduhar) and cash

Lindros:
Traded from Quebec Nordiques to Philadelphia Flyers for Chris Simon, Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Ron Hextall, Peter Forsberg, Steve Duchesne, future considerations, round 1 pick in the 1993 draft, round 1 pick in the 1994 draft and cash

Hossa:
Traded from Atlanta Thrashers with Pascal Dupuis to Pittsburgh Penguins for Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, Angelo Esposito and round 1 pick in the 2008 draft (Daultan Leveille)

Jimmy Casron, a 4th overall pick, and Angelo Esposito were the basis for each of these three trades. Tkachuk is directly in line with those assets as a base.

You're not going to find a better offer. If a guy like Draisaitl is on the trading block... it's for a damn good reason and that damn good reason would tank his value. You'll never find a trade that backs up a claim of a really high price for a guy like him because unless there is some extraordinary circumstance... he's not on the trading block.

Gretzky and Lindros were sold as much as traded. Wayne Gretzky was sold for $15M and the pieces moved around to justify the sale. Lindros's trade doesn't happen with Philadelphia not kicking in double digit millions.

And the Lindros package is f***ing massive. That's 3 current NHL roster pieces, 3 top prospects (one of whom was one of the best not in North America), and a boatload of cash.

These types of hypothetical discussions miss the whole point. Teams would line up to trade their top guys for a healthy, happy Draisaitl at 8.5M. They would do the same for a healthy, happy Jack Eichel at 10M.

But introduce a huge injury, a massive attitude problem, or similar anchor and it tanks the value. You'll use Karlsson as an example... but Karlsson had one year left on his contract when he was traded. He wanted a huge raise from a ridiculously cheap owner for a very long term, but he got hit with an injury that really hurt his viability as a true superstar. A massive ankle injury to a guy who's main asset is his quicksilver speed and mobility is a career killer.

Find me a trade example of a top star that isn't preceded by one of the following
1) End of that player's career, let's get him a Cup
2) massive injury that he will struggle to recover from
3) Contract due within a year and team has no interest in paying him/rental
4) Player directly demanding a trade due to butting heads with team.

Most of the time, teams don't go public with the offers they toss out for superstars or even generally ask for superstars, because it's all a waste of time.

 

[McShogun99]

It's true. The difference between Drai and Tkachuk isn't big enough to merit Norris and a 1st as an add. And I know how good he is.

You’re right. Edmonton should be adding to Draisaitl if they want Tkachuk.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Karlsson was also approaching the last year of a contract while wanting a monster raise and having been hit by a couple massive injuries on a team owned by the cheapest owner in the NHL.

Draisaitl should obviously get more, but he's not that far off from UFA himself. Only 4 years before he'll demand his own monster deal.

Point is that Karlsson, and pretty much every star player that has been traded in the last decade, has returned less than what fans on HF have expected them to. Teams are usually much more hesitant to throw massive packages at players than fans. Depth matters more than people think and teams rarely gut their rosters to acquire any single player.

It's not a deal that makes sense for either side, but for the record if Draisaitl for whatever reason were to request a trade and it was granted by Oilers management, I'd be very very surprised if he got a better return than Tkachuk + Norris + 1st (from a likely bottom 5-10 team, even with Drai).

 

[bobholly39]

Can I piggy back on this thread and offer Caufield + 1st round pick for McDavid so that McDavid can be with Suzuki (you know, since they're both from same country).

 

[Jumptheshark]

Ottawa offers: Tkachuk + Norris + 1st round pick in 2022(no protection)

You would have to over pay the oilers to get him. Sens fans may not like it, but Leon is signed to a good contract and when he was Bradys age he had gotten 77 pts in one season.

 

[ElPrimeTime]

Draisaitl should obviously get more, but he's not that far off from UFA himself. Only 4 years before he'll demand his own monster deal.

There you have it folks... players with 4 year terms are not far off from free agency and thus have less value.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

You're forgetting it's Drai on the trade block, and not 'trying to pry Drai away'.

I agree that's probably what Ottawa would need to offer if they wanted Ken Holland to start listening right now. Ottawa says no though. So that offer would never be on the table.

No its trying to pry Draisaitl away. He isn't on the trade block at all.

 

[Jackpot Jaret]

It's true. The difference between Drai and Tkachuk isn't big enough to merit Norris and a 1st as an add. And I know how good he is.

No offence but you're embarassing yourself with these comments

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Draisaitl should obviously get more, but he's not that far off from UFA himself. Only 4 years before he'll demand his own monster deal.

"Tell me you don't understand NHL contracts without telling me you don't know shit about NHL contracts"

Theres only 2 players with more than 4 years of term on the senators. 4 years is unequivocally "long term".

 

[Hale The Villain]

"Tell me you don't understand NHL contracts without telling me you don't know shit about NHL contracts"

Theres only 2 players with more than 4 years of term on the senators. 4 years is unequivocally "long term".

If I'm trading two young top 6 forwards and a likely top 10 pick for a player, I'd want to get more than 4 years of him.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

If I'm trading two young top 6 forwards and a likely top 10 pick for a player, I'd want to get more than 4 years of him.

You think teams are going to trade someone they just signed to an 8 year contract?

4 years is very much considered long term. Longer than the average length of employment for a NHL GM. You clearly don't understand that.