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Draft and UDFA Thread: Part IV

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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Man ya'll are sleepin on Krebs...
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Define sleeping though.

I don't think anyone dislikes him, but I start looking at the names in the top 10 and I have to kick one of them out to fit him in.

For some of the guys sitting in that 11-17 range, it's not that they're not appreciated. It's that I start to make a list and then realize I like someone else a little more.

I don't want to say Krebs is the safe pick, but he is one of those guys who has a high probability of being an NHL player. What I'm not sure about is whether I see is dynamic upside potential. In other words, I don't know if I see 25 or 30 goals, or 60+ points, or him sticking at center as opposed to wing. It's really not that he's done anything wrong, so much as it would be really hard to pass on several guys to take him.

I had him at 10 in October, and he sits 14th for me in March. I think anything from the 11 spot is probably fair game/fair value, but I can't say there's anyone higher I would slide down. He's also one of those guys for whom opinions are varied. Some have him in the top 10, maybe even around the 6 spot. Others have him well into the teens.
 
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GeorgeKaplan said:
Earlier in the season when he was in everyone top 10 list, I definitely wasn’t into him, but 15-30 for Suzuki is A-OK with me (depending who’s still hanging around)
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Yeah, I wasn't really feeling it as a top 10 pick. I like what he's shown, but it's never consistently wowed me either. It's been very good, very steady and appears to be a style that could translate outside of junior hockey. How that's weighed against talent with more boom or bust potential, we'll see.
 
Edge said:
Yeah, I wasn't really feeling it as a top 10 pick. I like what he's shown, but it's never consistently wowed me either. It's been very good, very steady and appears to be a style that could translate outside of junior hockey. How that's weighed against talent with more boom or bust potential, we'll see.
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Funny enough, I sort of felt the same way about his brother. When it came out the Rangers interviewed him at the combine I was like “well, yeah, if he falls to 21, that’s a good get” and then they got the #7 and his name kind of popped up around here again and I felt way less good about that
 
Edge said:
Define sleeping though.

I don't think anyone dislikes him, but I start looking at the names in the top 10 and I have to kick one of them out to fit him in.

For some of the guys sitting in that 11-17 range, it's not that they're not appreciated. It's that I start to make a list and then realize I like someone else a little more.

I don't want to say Krebs is the safe pick, but he is one of those guys who has a high probability of being an NHL player. What I'm not sure about is whether I see is dynamic upside potential. In other words, I don't know if I see 25 or 30 goals, or 60+ points, or him sticking at center as opposed to wing. It's really not that he's done anything wrong, so much as it would be really hard to pass on several guys to take him.

I had him at 10 in October, and he sits 14th for me in March. I think anything from the 11 spot is probably fair game/fair value, but I can't say there's anyone higher I would slide down. He's also one of those guys for whom opinions are varied. Some have him in the top 10, maybe even around the 6 spot. Others have him well into the teens.
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I talk a lot like I dislike him, but I, just like you, just would prefer other players with our first pick. I've seen plenty of him to start the year, and what worries me is that his fallback options are his speed and assertiveness, not necessarily the playmaking and skill that he's lauded for. If I wanted to go with another player I could see Krebs becoming, it's Dan Cleary. Cleary was a monster offensive prospect, but it just never translated to the NHL level and he had to re-invent himself as a player. I can see a similar career arc for Krebs.
 
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Gardner McKay said:
What is the prevailing thought on Nolan Foote?
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I like him as a potential late first round, early second round pick.

I think foot speed and higher-end creativity work against him being a first line player. But he's got a hell of a shot and could be a good potential second or third line companion for a playmaking center who likes to find the open man in the slot.

I feel like he understands his strengths and limitations and plays within them, and that gives him better odds of being able to translate his style to the pro game. But I also feel like he's an older player who never quite delivered on some of the early promise he showed two years back. His progress has been steady, if unspectacular, but he's also not playing on a great offensive team. He's a compliment player, but he's a compliment player on a team that doesn't really have a dynamic offensive driver. In fact, you can make that argument about several guys on the Rockets --- Foote, Topping, Korczak. They're solid, but not necessarily spectacular, and they're not going to blow anyone away offensively.But there's some potential there as support guys.
 
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Mac n Gs said:
I talk a lot like I dislike him, but I, just like you, just would prefer other players with our first pick. I've seen plenty of him to start the year, and what worries me is that his fallback options are his speed and assertiveness, not necessarily the playmaking and skill that he's lauded for. If I wanted to go with another player I could see Krebs becoming, it's Dan Cleary. Cleary was a monster offensive prospect, but it just never translated to the NHL level and he had to re-invent himself as a player. I can see a similar career arc for Krebs.
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I always try to be mindful of that with guys who aren't necessarily at the top of my list.

Often times you end up talking about why they aren't at the top of your list, and it becomes easy to overlook that you still consider them one of the 15 or so best players in their age group.
 
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Edge said:
I just do not see Krebs as their pick in the top 10.

He's a great prospect, and a solid, do-everything type. But in a draft that has some particularly impressive forwards with upside, I would be disappointed if we took Krebs in the top 10.

Every single one of those mocks has someone I would take over Krebs, and it's not even a serious debate for me.
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My gut feeling keeps saying if Cozens is there, he’s the pick. If not, I think it will be Turcotte. Maybe it’s wishful thinking. Check back with me in two months.
 
jas said:
My gut feeling keeps saying if Cozens is there, he’s the pick. If not, I think it will be Turcotte. Maybe it’s wishful thinking. Check back with me in two months.
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They're the first two players that come to mind. Trailing behind them is Zegras. I keep recalling McKenzie saying a scout had him fourth, and I think back to last year with Kravstov and can't help but think Zegras is a little bit of that dark horse that probably isn't mentioned as a possibility nearly as much as maybe he should be.

I've heard from two people I trust that the Rangers like Cozens. Do they LIKE HIM-like him? Not sure. Do they like him, but have a mystery man ahead of him? Also unknown.

He's the only one I've heard anything about.
 
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What the consensus on the gap between #2 and the next tier down?
If we are picking at 5/6 does our pick and Kreider tempt a team like EDM if they had 2 or is not enough for them? Is it not worth it from the Rangers end because the gap isn't that big?
 
Gardner McKay said:
If we win the lottery (1st overall) and Gordie goes up there and announces Kakko, does anyone care?
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Nope, both he and Hughes broke records within their respective clubs. But only Kakko did it in a pro league and within that league entirely. Hughes might turn out to be better, but it's really hard not to take Kakko with the progression he's making, too!!

Be prepared for a board meltdown, though....
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Ask me after the U-18's.

As of right now, he won't. Assuming that we're still one of the teams giving McKenzie info, he was still #1 on the board post WJC.
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I really don’t know if I see it changing unless Kakko does something that defines a generation.

It’s funny, when you talk to scouts, read articles from people who either regularly see the kids or have legit sources who see the kids, you don’t hear about a Hughes-Kakko debate.

You hear about a Cozens-Dach debate. You hear about a Turcotte-Zegras debate. You might even hear about a Byram-Broberg debate. But there’s no real talk about Kakko overtaking Hughes.

You hear things like 10 of 10 scouts have Hughes as the number one. And from what I’ve seen, that generally aligns with what I’m hearing as well.

I mean obviously it’s not a scientific poll, but it just really hasn’t been a thing at any point this season. If it has, it’s been one hell of a secret movement.

It isn’t like when Nolan Patrick, Jason Spezza or Jay Boumeester didn’t go first. There are rumblings in those drafts.

Now having said that, it only takes one team to change the entire narrative and that’s why you can’t guarantee that Hughes will be the first pick. But in terms of how they’ve generally been perceived, it really hasn’t been a thing out there.

I know that’s not the exciting answer, or one that generates mystery or drama, but I’d be lying if I said I’ve heard any debate to this point.
 
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Joey Bones said:
Nope, both he and Hughes broke records within their respective clubs. But only Kakko did it in a pro league and within that league entirely. Hughes might turn out to be better, but it's really hard not to take Kakko with the progression he's making!!
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And this is why I kind of disagree with @Edge here a little bit. I really like both players. Both, as you pointed out, broke records in their respective leagues. Though Hughes is mega talented, I'm very impressed by what Kakko has done against men as a 17 year old, and is what makes me think that the gap between the two is a bit more narrow than it may appear to be.
 
I Eat Crow said:
And this is why I kind of disagree with @Edge here a little bit. I really like both players. Both, as you pointed out, broke records in their respective leagues. Though Hughes is mega talented, I'm very impressed by what Kakko has done against men as a 17 year old, and is what makes me think that the gap between the two is a bit more narrow than it may appear to be.
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I feel like the HF take on Hughes-Kakko feels an awful lot like the Matthews-Laine debate in 2016

It was much closer on here than in scouting circles. And the more time goes on, the more that gap kind of grows as we get further out from that draft.

In the case of Kakko, there’s no denying he is more physically mature than Hughes. His body is further developed and he’s essentially already a grown man. But that can also be misleading because you’re looking at a situation where Hughes is, at the very least, matching him move for move, despite being less physically developed.

So if Hughes is doing that now, when he’s arguably a few years away from being close to his final physical stature, what does that mean when he actually gets there?

And that, even if you believe everything else is equal (which I don’t), is a SIGNIFICANT factor.
 
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Edge said:
I really don’t know if I see it changing unless Kakko does something that defines a generation.

It’s funny, when you talk to scouts, read articles from people who either regularly see the kids or have legit sources who see the kids, you don’t hear about a Hughes-Kakko debate.

You hear about a Cozens-Dach debate. You hear about a Turcotte-Zegras debate. You might even hear about a Byram-Broberg debate. But there’s no real talk about Kakko overtaking Hughes.

You hear things like 10 of 10 scouts have Hughes as the number one. And from what I’ve seen, that generally aligns with what I’m hearing as well.

I mean obviously it’s not a scientific poll, but it just really hasn’t been a thing at any point this season. If it has, it’s been one hell of a secret movement.

It isn’t like when Nolan Patrick, Jason Spezza or Jay Boumeester didn’t go first. There are rumblings in those drafts.

Now having said that, it only takes one team to change the entire narrative and that’s why you can’t guarantee that Hughes will be the first pick. But in terms of how they’ve generally been perceived, it really hasn’t been a thing out there.

I know that’s not the exciting answer, or one that generates mystery or drama, but I’d be lying if I said I’ve heard any debate to this point.
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Well not to the point where its Taylor-Tyler, but McKenzie has alluded to there being some competition for that top slot.

"that doesn’t mean there hasn’t been some closing of what started this season as a considerable gap between Hughes and the rest of the 2019 draft class.
We still have Hughes at No. 1,” one NHL scout said, “but he’s No. 1 within a group of five or six. At the start of the season, Hughes was in a group by himself. He has company now.”

Many of the scouts surveyed said the strong play of Finnish forward Kaapo Kakko, who scored the gold-medal winning goal at the WJC, and Russian forward Vasili Podkolzin, who played a prominent role in Russia’s bronze-medal performance at the WJC, represent a challenge of sorts to Hughes."

https://www.tsn.ca/it-s-still-the-jack-hughes-draft-1.1246625
 
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