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Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part III

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Edge said:
Personally, I don't find his skating to be a concern.

I just feel like we're reaching that point of the year, right before the draft, where guys seem to rise and fall on a weekly basis on here.
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Yeah I have a tendency to pick up on these just from watching a little of a player, maybe it’s because I had a bad stride myself when I played and worked a ton on improving it that I can spot other guys that don’t move too well. ;)

Just think it’s one of those things that comes from being spoon fed hockey from a young age, it’s easy to misjudge speed if you try to gauge how fast a player gets from A to B or try to measure how fast someone moves in relation to those around him. A kid can be gassed or what not. I think that is a mistake many make.

But you need to move a certain way to have top notch skating. That never lies. I always add in a bunch of caveats when I post, I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again, but never in relation to how someone skates. I don’t think I ever been wrong on that issue and I can remember many examples of posters getting how someone skates downright absurdly wrong.

And when it comes to Dach, his skating is definitely not good for a top 10 forward in a draft, keeping up with the pace in the NHL will be an issue for him.
 
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Ola said:
Yeah I have a tendency to pick up on these just from watching a little of a player, maybe it’s because I had a bad stride myself when I played and worked a ton on improving it that I can spot other guys that don’t move too well. ;)

Just think it’s one of those things that comes from being spoon fed hockey from a young age, it’s easy to misjudge speed if you try to gauge how fast a player gets from A to B or try to measure how fast someone moves in relation to those around him. A kid can be gassed or what not. I think that is a mistake many make.

But you need to move a certain way to have top notch skating. That never lies. I always add in a bunch of caveats when I post, I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again, but never in relation to how someone skates. I don’t think I ever been wrong on that issue and I can remember many examples of posters getting how someone skates downright absurdly wrong.

And when it comes to Dach, his skating is definitely not good for a top 10 forward in a draft, keeping up with the pace in the NHL will be an issue for him.
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BTW didn’t mean for that comment to be directed exclusively at you, so much as our overall process this time of year.
 
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I’ve noticed that many of the scouting services made available online don’t really cover how a kid skates — maybe it’s because they look more at stats etc and don’t have much experience of being around a rink?

I noticed it with Wahlstrom last season. I commented on how he was a pretty heavy skater, and some favorite of mine launched out at me claiming that it was the dumbest he had ever seen, Wahlstrom was a great skater. I get so puzzled by that because it’s like saying that Chara is short. And I don’t think anyone even remotely would disagree with what I wrote back then today after seing Wahlstrom outside the U18 level. He is always a bit behind the pace, and certainly never pushing it.

But some of that confusion was cleared up when I read up on the scouting reports on Wahlstrom.

Like THW has a real nugget:
he moves around the ice with an effortless, yet powerful, stride that generates plenty of speed

Will that be a relevant description of how he will move at the NHL level when he gets there? From highlights of him scoring at the U18 level it might look like that, but against faster older players it will show a ton instead. Sure OW can improve and it’s not like he is a horrible skater, but at 215 lbs and a bit diesel like motor his skating will never be a strength on a top line in the NHL...

A good scouting report of him should mention that.
 
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ManUtdTobbe said:
At what point are we worried about the fact that Podkolzin isn't producing at a high level in MHL/VHL when both teams are the best teams in the Leagues?

Hint: I'm already very concerned about it.
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It's a worry, but less of a worry if Rangers are picking 7-10 than top 5. At tail end of the lotto you can take that gamble
 
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Hajek had a good game last night. Showed promise. No points, but still had a good game.

I know this because I watched the game. So did a lot of Rangers fans.

Watching the game is critical in evaluating a prospect. Box scores rarely tell the whole story.
 
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Steve Kournianos said:
Hajek had a good game last night. Showed promise. No points, but still had a good game.

I know this because I watched the game. So did a lot of Rangers fans.

Watching the game is critical in evaluating a prospect. Box scores rarely tell the whole story.
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As someone who has watched a lot of Podkolzin's games this season, I understand the hesitation @ManUtdTobbe is showing.
 
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Steve Kournianos said:
Hajek had a good game last night. Showed promise. No points, but still had a good game.

I know this because I watched the game. So did a lot of Rangers fans.

Watching the game is critical in evaluating a prospect. Box scores rarely tell the whole story.
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Especially with a just turned 21 year old dman in his first NHL game who has been playing in a toxic environment in the AHL. Played decent minutes against a very high motor team that's in your face like Montreal.
 
sorry late for the party in this thread. I know who we would be taking if we won the lottery somehow but realistically at 7/8 who do we take...And will that player be just as great of an impact as a Kravtsov or more?
 
Steve Kournianos said:
Personally, I think the Rangers want Kakko more tgan Hughes or anyone else. Fits their mold — adult-age experience, size, maturity.

It would take a mountain to get him. I’ve finally accepted the gap between Kakko and Podkolzin.

Would have no issues if they traded another 1st and the Dallas 2nd to move from 8 or 9 to 2. If that’s what it’ll cost.
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I don't see the team that gets the 2nd overall trading Kakko for let's say the 8th/9th overall and 25ish (Jets Pick) and a second. I sure as hell wouldn't.
 
bl02 said:
sorry late for the party in this thread. I know who we would be taking if we won the lottery somehow but realistically at 7/8 who do we take...And will that player be just as great of an impact as a Kravtsov or more?
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I know Dorofeyev is on the Rangers radar, with Gordie Clark saying in November he was one of the players he was tracking during a game, and he screams "Rangers pick" to me in so many ways. He's a lot like Kravtsov. Very responsible defensively, carries the puck all over the ice if necessary, sees the ice well, can set up team mates and finish himself with a good shot.
 
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Is Podkolzin have a possibility of being the Veleno of this upcoming draft? A few months ago many had him pegged at 3/4/5 now dropping it seems
 
Ola said:
I’ve noticed that many of the scouting services made available online don’t really cover how a kid skates — maybe it’s because they look more at stats etc and don’t have much experience of being around a rink?

I noticed it with Wahlstrom last season. I commented on how he was a pretty heavy skater, and some favorite of mine launched out at me claiming that it was the dumbest he had ever seen, Wahlstrom was a great skater. I get so puzzled by that because it’s like saying that Chara is short. And I don’t think anyone even remotely would disagree with what I wrote back then today after seing Wahlstrom outside the U18 level. He is always a bit behind the pace, and certainly never pushing it.

But some of that confusion was cleared up when I read up on the scouting reports on Wahlstrom.

Like THW has a real nugget:
he moves around the ice with an effortless, yet powerful, stride that generates plenty of speed

Will that be a relevant description of how he will move at the NHL level when he gets there? From highlights of him scoring at the U18 level it might look like that, but against faster older players it will show a ton instead. Sure OW can improve and it’s not like he is a horrible skater, but at 215 lbs and a bit diesel like motor his skating will never be a strength on a top line in the NHL...

A good scouting report of him should mention that.
Click to expand...

You can’t predict an average or above-average teenage skater will get even slower once he bulks up because the desire to improve differs from player to player.

Also, power wingers don’t need excellent speed to succeed. Is peak Kreider better than peak Simmonds or peak Lucic? Look at Timo Meier — 6’0, 200 — and he moves quick enough to keep up with his faster center. But he scores a lot of dirty goals as well.

Power forwards can exert only so much energy in one game. That’s why Kreider for years has had periods of being invisible, non-explosive and glued to the outside. Grinding checkers? Sure, they can mash every shift because they play only 8-12 minutes a game. Top-6 types need to conserve their energy and pick spots. It may look like floating but it’s not.
 
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bl02 said:
Is Podkolzin have a possibility of being the Veleno of this upcoming draft? A few months ago many had him pegged at 3/4/5 now dropping it seems
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Doubt it. He’s not dropping as far as I know, and if he is, it’s not going be to the 20’s like Veleno did on some rankings. I have Podkokzin ranked 3rd and for now he isn't going anywhere, but I’ve seen plenty of him to make me comfortable in the ranking. Boldy is the only kid I can see convincing me to overtake him.

Veleno was a classic case of anchoring. He still could bust, but some soured on his game with Saint John early in the season (some using stat-driven criticisms) and couldn’t bring themselves to adjust it when he caught fire with Drummondville.

FWIW, the NHL scouting community is collectively in love with Podkolzin, and rightfully so. Russian factor is very real though.
 
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Steve Kournianos said:
You can’t predict an average or above-average teenage skater will get even slower once he bulks up because the desire to improve differs from player to player.

Also, power wingers don’t need excellent speed to succeed. Is peak Kreider better than peak Simmonds or peak Lucic? Look at Timo Meier — 6’0, 200 — and he moves quick enough to keep up with his faster center. But he scores a lot of dirty goals as well.

Power forwards can exert only so much energy in one game. That’s why Kreider for years has had periods of being invisible, non-explosive and glued to the outside. Grinding checkers? Sure, they can mash every shift because they play only 8-12 minutes a game. Top-6 types need to conserve their energy and pick spots. It may look like floating but it’s not.
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Yeah, I agree for sure. Great point!

Today’s game is so obviously a speed game. And even if someone like Kreider is hard to beat in a straight line, Kreider would never keep up with one of those younger kids who are generously listed at 170 lbs if you asked them to skate in a cross. Jesper Bratt is a kid from that went from the 6th round in 2016 straight into the NHL in 2017. Probably should have been 15 th overall instead of a 6th round pick. He played on the top line for Sweden in the international tournaments leading up to the draft. So why was he missed? I’ve seen him a lot from before his draft and after it. For AIK in Sweden and for NJD. He just a good player thanks to his skating, he navigates so easily and effortless on the ice. Creating situations with the puck and putting pressure on it without it. For him being 5’11 170 lbs is an asset.

And it’s just simple physics, gravity. If a hockey player curves left, how much strength must a player 220 lbs have in his right leg to take the same narrow curve as someone 170 lbs does? For a bigger guy the strength requirements increase exponentially. And skating is really really paying off in today’s game.

WITH THAT SAID, hockey is a really multifaceted game. This off season it seemed like every other player in the NHL came into Camp with a story of how they had lost 10-20 lbs or whatever. The league is getting smaller. As a result, a bigger guy gets an even bigger size advantage — in physical battles.

That is the hardest when you scout kids in hockey. Following some kind of contantly recabilirated inner compass in terms of what works will get you far. But there will always be someone like Anders Lee breaking the norm, now when the best players are getting slimmer and slimmer, just like MSL and Theo could do it when the conditions were the opposite.

But in the end, I just think it would be more valuable if the scouting services could have a more sober as well as descriptive approach to how kids skates. If you read the scouting reports of like Olli Wahlstrom and none mention that he is a little heavy on his skates but instead talk about him being a great skater you are going to be shocked when you see him in like College.

Any kid coming into the NHL today without being a fantastic skater is going to face a stiff challenge and every kid like 6’4 really must do a great job in other areas to get involved
 
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bl02 said:
sorry late for the party in this thread. I know who we would be taking if we won the lottery somehow but realistically at 7/8 who do we take...And will that player be just as great of an impact as a Kravtsov or more?
Click to expand...

I think we will consider every type, but I definitely think the brass would most prefer if they could get a Clayton Keller type of forward. And in this draft there are quite many like that available; Turcotte, Zegras, Krebs maybe and so forth.
 
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Edge said:
I'd love to get one of Cozens, Dach or Byram, though I think Byram has become my personal favorite for this draft.

As for some of the other names, we'll have to trade up for Doro, and maybe Brink.

My fantasy continues to be grabbing Byram at 5, and then trading up to get some of the other names we've tossed around.

In theory, outside of their top pick, the Rangers will have anywhere from one to three additional first rounders to work with, and/or one to three second round picks to work with.

At the very least, they will head into the draft with two firsts and three seconds --- approximately 8 percent of the first two rounds worth of draft picks.
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Have a feeling they are going to look at moving up quite a few spots to have two picks in the top ten

Part of the reason for accumulating alot of assets is to strike when the iron is hot.
 
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