Confirmed with Link: Douglas Murray Traded To Pitt for 2013 2nd round and 2014 2nd/3rd conditional pick

[WantonAbandon]

I'm sorry, are you arguing that this was a bad trade because Murray had a defined role here? Yeah, his defined role was sheltered, one-dimensional, slow-as-molasses defensive defenseman who couldn't make a breakout pass to save his life, had to start in the offensive zone too much considering he was supposedly a defensive defenseman, and bled shots at even strength and on the PK. His role was "designated slow as **** veteran that Todd could play to feed narratives about grit and leadership despite the fact that his on-ice results blow and he brings down everyone he plays with". He was this year's Colin White. I can't believe someone's even arguing this.

No I already said this was a great trade. The role Murray played on the team could probably be filled by another. Braun seems like the most likely to me.

Before Murray was traded I'd say the Sharks had four 5/6 guys on their roster
Murray probably wasn't traded without consulting the coaching staff

 

[WTFetus]

Maybe years ago when he was paired with Vlasic. Interestingly enough Vlasic is moving the puck better than Demers is against far tougher competition this year. But who knows maybe its a confidence issue

Seriously? That right there shows either you haven't watched a single game this season, or haven't been paying attention to a single game this season.
Vlasic is absolutely terrible at moving the puck up the ice this season. Even Murray was better.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Seriously? That right there shows either you haven't watched a single game this season, or haven't been paying attention to a single game this season.
Vlasic is absolutely terrible at moving the puck up the ice this season. Even Murray was better.

Oh come on... This is one where you really can look at advanced stats to make a solid judgement. Murray started most of the time in the O zone, played against weak competition, and had negative corsi in the double digits. But he did block a lot of shots and boxed forwards out from Niemi on the pk.

Vlasics ability is vastly under rated at moving the puck out of his zone. But if you don't want to take my word for it take a look at the stats. He didn't accumulate that with his O zone creativity

 

[WantonAbandon]

Vlasic has also performed the best on the PK too. Probably because he has less minutes

 

[WTFetus]

Oh come on... This is one where you really can look at advanced stats to make a solid judgement. Murray started most of the time in the O zone, played against weak competition, and had negative corsi in the double digits. But he did block a lot of shots and boxed forwards out from Niemi on the pk.

Vlasics ability is vastly under rated at moving the puck out of his zone. But if you don't want to take my word for it take a look at the stats. He didn't accumulate that with his O zone creativity

His negative corsi wasn't just because he lacks a break-out pass, it was because he was horrible defensively. He couldn't get to any loose pucks which allowed the opposition to constantly cycle it behind the net. When he actually got to the puck, his breakouts weren't bad.
Vlasic is absolutely terrible at the breakouts. You can't use Corsi because for the most part, Vlasic has a partner who is at least decent at breakouts. Seriously, I have no clue what you're watching. Vlasic can't make a breakout pass to save his life.

 

[WantonAbandon]

His negative corsi wasn't just because he lacks a break-out pass, it was because he was horrible defensively. He couldn't get to any loose pucks which allowed the opposition to constantly cycle it behind the net. When he actually got to the puck, his breakouts weren't bad.
Vlasic is absolutely terrible at the breakouts. You can't use Corsi because for the most part, Vlasic has a partner who is at least decent at breakouts. Seriously, I have no clue what you're watching. Vlasic can't make a breakout pass to save his life.

Well man we will just have to agree to disagree. My guess is Shero disagrees with you too. He got Murray because he sees the Pengs PK as its only weakness. Seems like kind of a desperate trade on his part.

And I believe that Vlasic moves the puck far better than Stuart does. Its hard to clearly back up what I have seen with numbers since the defensman Staurt has played with the most beside Vlasic is Murray. As you would expect Stuarts production away from Vlasic takes a tailspin. Goal per 20 wise Staurt and Vlasic is the Sharks most productive pairing at even strength followed very cloesly by Boyle and Vlasic. Boyles production takes a big tailspin as well when he is away from Vlasic. In my opinion the stats support what I have expected with the Boyle and Irwin pairing being that it isn't very good... Irwin isn't a top four defenseman after all. But to the matter at hand, in the limited minutes Boyle has played with Staurt the pairing has been pretty awful especially in comparison with Boyles time with Vlasic

 

[NWShark*]

And I believe that Vlasic moves the puck far better than Stuart does.

WTF? [Mod],No way you're actually watching the games... You definitely haven't watched Stuart all those years in Detroit or this year... He is very good at breakout passing. He was one of the reasons Detroit was so good on the back end.

Next you'll try and tell us Desi is a better passer than JT...

 

[BadVooDoo]

Well man we will just have to agree to disagree. My guess is Shero disagrees with you too. He got Murray because he sees the Pengs PK as its only weakness. Seems like kind of a desperate trade on his part.

And I believe that Vlasic moves the puck far better than Stuart does. Its hard to clearly back up what I have seen with numbers since the defensman Staurt has played with the most beside Vlasic is Murray. As you would expect Stuarts production away from Vlasic takes a tailspin. Goal per 20 wise Staurt and Vlasic is the Sharks most productive pairing at even strength followed very cloesly by Boyle and Vlasic. Boyles production takes a big tailspin as well when he is away from Vlasic. In my opinion the stats support what I have expected with the Boyle and Irwin pairing being that it isn't very good... Irwin isn't a top four defenseman after all. But to the matter at hand, in the limited minutes Boyle has played with Staurt the pairing has been pretty awful especially in comparison with Boyles time with Vlasic

If Shero expects Murray to shore up the Pens pk, he's going to get an unpleasant surprise seeing as Murray was on ice for the most chances against when on the pk.

 

[vilpertti]

If Shero expects Murray to shore up the Pens pk, he's going to get an unpleasant surprise seeing as Murray was on ice for the most chances against when on the pk.

Being the starting PK pairing D does that to you.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

After watching Braun and Demers last night......the Sharks need a better replacement for Murray. They are awful in their own end.

 

[KHstrike]

Pens fan here. I see a lot of joy at seeing Murray go. The Pens defense is generally undersized and not physical. The only guy that tries to clear the front of the net is a rookie. I personally don't expect this guy to go around throwing open ice hits, or make awesome tape to tape breakout passes. I want him to punish opponents in the corners and box out the front of the net. If he can do that, then he fits a huge need on this team and is well worth the picks.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

After watching Braun and Demers last night......the Sharks need a better replacement for Murray. They are awful in their own end.

So after one night, you're already prepared to give up on Braun and Demers. They may need some seasoning in their defensive play but the breakouts were better than they had been in a very long time and that is partly because of them. You might want to show some patience with the young players and let them grow.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

So after one night, you're already prepared to give up on Braun and Demers. They may need some seasoning in their defensive play but the breakouts were better than they had been in a very long time and that is partly because of them. You might want to show some patience with the young players and let them grow.

Yes, I've only watched them play one game ever.

I've been commenting all year about how poor they are defensively. It's not new. They can move the puck much better than Murray, obviously. But without the puck in their own end, they aren't even close to Murray.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yes, I've only watched them play one game ever.

I've been commenting all year about how poor they are defensively. It's not new. They can move the puck much better than Murray, obviously. But without the puck in their own end, they aren't even close to Murray.

Well, they don't need to be as good as Murray supposedly is to you in their own end. They help win games with their puck movement and this team sorely needs those skills right now. Besides, they will get better with time especially Demers instead of getting yanked out of the lineup all the time.

 

[OffSydes]

If people want a rebuild or to get younger they have to learn to live with mistakes as players learn.

When a younger player makes mistakes, you hope they are learning from them and I can deal with that a lot better than an older player and terrible play due to being a terrible player.

 

[hockeyball]

Well, they don't need to be as good as Murray supposedly is to you in their own end. They help win games with their puck movement and this team sorely needs those skills right now. Besides, they will get better with time especially Demers instead of getting yanked out of the lineup all the time.

Niemi has been good enough that I don't mind a little defensive deficiency in favor of some puck movement. We won that game last night because of stretch passes, solid breakouts, and skating. With Murray in the line up I'm not certain we win that game frankly.

They have to be put into a position to get better, that means they are going to make mistakes. You cannot shelter them AND give them the experience they need to improve at the same time. They will improve, especially Demers.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Pens fan here. I see a lot of joy at seeing Murray go. The Pens defense is generally undersized and not physical. The only guy that tries to clear the front of the net is a rookie. I personally don't expect this guy to go around throwing open ice hits, or make awesome tape to tape breakout passes. I want him to punish opponents in the corners and box out the front of the net. If he can do that, then he fits a huge need on this team and is well worth the picks.

Thats what he can do. Also will fight.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Pens fan here. I see a lot of joy at seeing Murray go. The Pens defense is generally undersized and not physical. The only guy that tries to clear the front of the net is a rookie. I personally don't expect this guy to go around throwing open ice hits, or make awesome tape to tape breakout passes. I want him to punish opponents in the corners and box out the front of the net. If he can do that, then he fits a huge need on this team and is well worth the picks.

That's exactly what Murray does. I do wish he was a little more aggressive in front of the net but he punishes the other team in the corners. Basically, since Murray can't skate, his toughness is only effective when he doesn't really need to skate much.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Niemi has been good enough that I don't mind a little defensive deficiency in favor of some puck movement. We won that game last night because of stretch passes, solid breakouts, and skating. With Murray in the line up I'm not certain we win that game frankly.

They have to be put into a position to get better, that means they are going to make mistakes. You cannot shelter them AND give them the experience they need to improve at the same time. They will improve, especially Demers.

Braun was fairly solid defensively last year, though he has looked shaky over the past 10+ games.

But for Demers, steadiness defensively has been the exception rather than the norm. He seems to have these Ehrhoff-like gaffes that lead to high-percentage scoring chances the other way.

 

[eastbayjoker]

Pens fan here. I see a lot of joy at seeing Murray go. The Pens defense is generally undersized and not physical. The only guy that tries to clear the front of the net is a rookie. I personally don't expect this guy to go around throwing open ice hits, or make awesome tape to tape breakout passes. I want him to punish opponents in the corners and box out the front of the net. If he can do that, then he fits a huge need on this team and is well worth the picks.

He really, really likes the reverse breakout. Not sure he sees the ice as well as he could. You will probably see him spend a lot of time clogging up the wall trying to disrupt the cycle. He doesn't take many retaliatory penalties but doesn't get (or let his teammates get) pushed around. Not a stellar fighter but he'll drop the gloves a couple / few times a season. I'm quite curious to see if a new system or new role will change his game. He has the tools, but I think McLellan wanted him to be Jovanovski while he is really more of a Daneyko. I'm sure I'm dating myself with those references...

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

I think Murray is going to work out better for Pit than people think. Because the Sharks are a slow, turnover-happy team with a horrible transition game, Murray's deficiencies stood out even more. The Pens have a bunch of guys who can get the puck out of the zone, carry it up ice, and score goals, and that will allow Doug to just sit back, clear out the crease, block shots, and help with the PK. They won't need him to contribute anything offensively, which is the ideal situation for him. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do in a new system on a better team.

 

[Coily]

I think Murray is going to work out better for Pit than people think. Because the Sharks are a slow, turnover-happy team with a horrible transition game, Murray's deficiencies stood out even more. The Pens have a bunch of guys who can get the puck out of the zone, carry it up ice, and score goals, and that will allow Doug to just sit back, clear out the crease, block shots, and help with the PK. They won't need him to contribute anything offensively, which is the ideal situation for him. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do in a new system on a better team.

Most of that was Murray.

 

[do0glas]

The way that demers and braun are a liability defensively isnt inherently worse than murray. The biggest difference is that murray allowed zone time almost every shift for the opponent. While demers/braun will cause a chance against, they will most certainly outweigh that going forward on the rush. I am not a huge demers fan, never have been. I see a long time for him to be a 25-30 minute dman. braun will likely achieve that first due to age, but demers will always be a better passer.

Murray had to be traded. but he will do well on the pens.

 

[BadVooDoo]

With Murray on the ice, the Sharks average 25 shots to the opposition's 33. With Murray off the ice the Sharks outshoot the other teams 30 to 28. That is a pretty massive swing, and it is particularly unimpressive because Murray's playing a depth role—he ranks eighth among San Jose defensemen in even strength ice-time and isn't being asked to play a heavy role in the defensive zone. He has actually been on the ice for more offensive zone draws than defensive zone draws at even strength.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1484

and

While on the theme of bad Defenders, I think this is a good time to rehash the whole Douglas Murray trade to Pittsburgh. Murray is currently producing the 3rd worst results by SDI Residual Score in the ENTIRE NHL in the past 6 years.

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2013/3/26/4130046/Defense-Shut-Down-Index-Advanced-Statistics

Good thing for us that Shero isn't a stats guy.

 

[nabbyfan]

Turning Murray into 2 picks is a good move by DW, anybody who is upset about this trade is just too far invested into the faces and not the team. Having Murray out there was a liability, and likely hurt the development of Demers/Irwin/Braun by taking playing time.

That being said, it's always a little sad to see somebody who clearly cared about the team, and enjoyed being a Shark, go. I remember when Crankshaft was hurt, and was in the booth with Randy and Drew for a bit, he was actively cheering and sounding like a fan, which i thought was really cool.

He will make his Pittsburgh Debut on Thursday against Winnipeg.