Confirmed with Link: Douglas Murray Traded To Pitt for 2013 2nd round and 2014 2nd/3rd conditional pick

[WantonAbandon]

WTF? [Mod],No way you're actually watching the games... You definitely haven't watched Stuart all those years in Detroit or this year... He is very good at breakout passing. He was one of the reasons Detroit was so good on the back end.

Next you'll try and tell us Desi is a better passer than JT...

Nice straw man fallacy. Look I never tried to claim that Vlasic is on par with Karlsson or even Boyle for that matter. However Vlasic does tend to be ridiculously underrated by Shark fans in this regard.. I point your Desi JT analogy... wow. Right now Vlasic is probably the second best in this regard on the team which isn't really saying much.

As for Stuart I never said he sucked, but take closer look at who he skated with, which pairing he was on, and the level of comp he faced with Detroit. Saying Vlasic moves the puck better than Stuart really isn't saying a whole lot. Staurt is better in the O zone then Vlasic is.

 

[WantonAbandon]

and



Good thing for us that Shero isn't a stats guy.

Yeah those have nothing to do with the pk.... He wasn't acquired for his ability at even strength

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yeah those have nothing to do with the pk.... He wasn't acquired for his ability at even strength

Murray isn't going to magically fix the Penguins' PK. We had Murray all last year and it did our PK squat. Plus, he's a liability at even strength, so it makes no sense to ice him.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Murray isn't going to magically fix the Penguins' PK. We had Murray all last year and it did our PK squat. Plus, he's a liability at even strength, so it makes no sense to ice him.

You are trying to compare apples and oranges or at least oranges and tangerines. If the Sharks were running a PK that was on par to last year or how the Pengs are this year you can bet the Pengs might not have bothered with Murray. This year however the Sharks are running the 3rd best pk in the league.

Finally the Pengs D as a whole is fairly small. They don't have too many options to box forwards out in front of Fluery. So yes Murray actually would help them assuming the Pengs use him in a similar manner as the Sharks.

 

[Evincar]

You are trying to compare apples and oranges or at least oranges and tangerines. If the Sharks were running a PK that was on par to last year or how the Pengs are this year you can bet the Pengs might not have bothered with Murray. This year however the Sharks are running the 3rd best pk in the league.

Finally the Pengs D as a whole is fairly small. They don't have too many options to box forwards out in front of Fluery. So yes Murray actually would help them assuming the Pengs use him in a similar manner as the Sharks.

Thats not true as they traded for Brenden Morrow who was acquired for what he did in 2007-2008 not the last 2 seasons.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Thats not true as they traded for Brenden Morrow who was acquired for what he did in 2007-2008 not the last 2 seasons.

... I'm not sure I get your point. Morrow and a third was acquired for a prospect and a fifth. So whatever you are trying to say, you are certainly wrong as Dallas would have asked for a whole lot more for Morrow in 07/08

 

[Juxtaposer]

You are trying to compare apples and oranges or at least oranges and tangerines. If the Sharks were running a PK that was on par to last year or how the Pengs are this year you can bet the Pengs might not have bothered with Murray. This year however the Sharks are running the 3rd best pk in the league.

Finally the Pengs D as a whole is fairly small. They don't have too many options to box forwards out in front of Fluery. So yes Murray actually would help them assuming the Pengs use him in a similar manner as the Sharks.

You're running in circles. You're saying that the Penguins acquired Murray for his PK work, but wouldn't have bothered if our PK wasn't good. That's saying that you think that the Penguins think that he's responsible for the Sharks good PK.

Remember how Daniel Winnik, one of the best PKing forwards in the league, had absolutely no effect on the PK? Douglas Murray will have even less of an effect on the Penguins PK.

Murray is Murray. He's a huge liability at even strength and at best an average PKer. He's not going to change.

I don't even know what your point is anymore, you're just arguing in circles for the sake of arguing.

 

[Evincar]

... I'm not sure I get your point. Morrow and a third was acquired for a prospect and a fifth. So whatever you are trying to say, you are certainly wrong as Dallas would have asked for a whole lot more for Morrow in 07/08

The point I was making is that Shero is clearly looking at past performances as both Murray and Morrow have been terrible this year.

 

[WantonAbandon]

You're running in circles. You're saying that the Penguins acquired Murray for his PK work, but wouldn't have bothered if our PK wasn't good. That's saying that you think that the Penguins think that he's responsible for the Sharks good PK.

Remember how Daniel Winnik, one of the best PKing forwards in the league, had absolutely no effect on the PK? Douglas Murray will have even less of an effect on the Penguins PK.

Murray is Murray. He's a huge liability at even strength and at best an average PKer. He's not going to change.

I don't even know what your point is anymore, you're just arguing in circles for the sake of arguing.

Well I'm sure its just an unfortunate coincidence that the Ducks pk is even worse then the Pengs... Despite having the GREATEST pk forward.
I'm not running circles. The Sharks are running a different formation this season compared to last and they used Murray a heck of a lot more this season. Last season Vlasic had about 70 more shorthanded minutes. The Pengs noticed the change and obviously liked what they saw. Shero didn't target Murray by throwing a dart at a board. Now you can disagree with Shero's assessment all you want... But yes obviously Murray was acquired to help improve the Pengs pk.

 

[WantonAbandon]

The point I was making is that Shero is clearly looking at past performances as both Murray and Morrow have been terrible this year.

Ok... well I don't think so

 

[Juxtaposer]

Well I'm sure its just an unfortunate coincidence that the Ducks pk is even worse then the Pengs... Despite having the GREATEST pk forward.
I'm not running circles. The Sharks are running a different formation this season compared to last and they used Murray a heck of a lot more this season. Last season Vlasic had about 70 more shorthanded minutes. The Pengs noticed the change and obviously liked what they saw. Shero didn't target Murray by throwing a dart at a board. Now you can disagree with Shero's assessment all you want... But yes obviously Murray was acquired to help improve the Pengs pk.

Holy [Mod] straw man. My point is personnel does not make or break a penalty kill. Just as Dan Winnik did not fix our PK, Douglas Murray will not fix Pittsburgh's. He will do nothing for their PK while being a liability at even strength.

You cannot possibly believe that Murray is responsible for the Sharks' PK improvements. Maybe Shero thought so, in which case he's a complete and utter moron. But you cannot possibly believe that. The sharks are running a different formation, as you say, hat is the reason for the PK improvement. It has absolutely nothing to do with Murray.

 

[WTFetus]

Murray isn't even a good PKer. I thought FTF summed it up nicely; LZ posted it in the GDT as well.

Fear The Fin ‏@fearthefin 7m Could have really used Murray on the PK to block the shot attempts that weren't given up because Murray wasn't on the PK.

 

[Evincar]

Ok... well I don't think so

Which one? You dont think they have been terrible or you dont think Shero acquired them because of their past performance?

 

[WantonAbandon]

Holy [Mod] straw man. My point is personnel does not make or break a penalty kill. Just as Dan Winnik did not fix our PK, Douglas Murray will not fix Pittsburgh's. He will do nothing for their PK while being a liability at even strength.

You cannot possibly believe that Murray is responsible for the Sharks' PK improvements. Maybe Shero thought so, in which case he's a complete and utter moron. But you cannot possibly believe that. The sharks are running a different formation, as you say, hat is the reason for the PK improvement. It has absolutely nothing to do with Murray.

That was a joke not a strawman. First of all a defenseman would have a greater impact on a PK than a forward. Secondly you act as if I am saying that Murray was the sole reason for the sharks incredible turnaround on the pk when all I am arguing is that he was effective and the pengs obviously noticed and paid a steep price to acquire Murray.

Murray isn't even a good PKer. I thought FTF summed it up nicely; LZ posted it in the GDT as well.

Fear The Fin ‏@fearthefin 7m Could have really used Murray on the PK to block the shot attempts that weren't given up because Murray wasn't on the PK.

Yeah I read that blog. FTF beleives that corsi is the end all stat regarding players and often times rants about corsi completely out of context. Corsi without any context is pretty close to meaningless. At the very least you need to combine a lot of other stats to provide context. Since Murray's even strength corsi numbers were abysmal FTF was of course convinced that Murray absolutely sucked and had to justify this opinion. Murray turned into a whipping boy for him. I for one disagree with that online blogger and you know who else disagreed with him? Robinson clearly did as he increased Murrays pk time by at least 70% and Shero disagreed with him as well considering the price he paid to acquire him... but hey the online blogger may have a better idea what he is talking about.

 

[Coily]

Murray isn't even a good PKer. I thought FTF summed it up nicely; LZ posted it in the GDT as well.

Fear The Fin ‏@fearthefin 7m Could have really used Murray on the PK to block the shot attempts that weren't given up because Murray wasn't on the PK.

Honestly he was just good for using his body and blocking shots.

 

[Juxtaposer]

You know what, fine. You win. Murray was a great PKer and a wonderful Norris-caliber defenseman and Larry Robinson was obviously right to trot him out there every game despite a mountain of evidence that said he blows. He was responsible for the Sharks having the #3 PK in the league and now we'll see our PK and the Penguins' PK switch places in the standings. He is irreplaceable.

Oh, and the Kings winning despite being the 8th seed had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that post-Carter trade they were the best Corsi team since the stat's inception in 07-08.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Honestly he was just good for using his body and blocking shots.

And stopping forwards from getting to rebounds by boxing them out. I don't watch the east as much as I should but isn't there this french Canadian goalie that allows a bunch of rebounds? Hmmm what is his name? Kind of sounds like a McDonalds desert...

 

[WantonAbandon]

You know what, fine. You win. Murray was a great PKer and a wonderful Norris-caliber defenseman and Larry Robinson was obviously right to trot him out there every game despite a mountain of evidence that said he blows. He was responsible for the Sharks having the #3 PK in the league and now we'll see our PK and the Penguins' PK switch places in the standings. He is irreplaceable.

Oh, and the Kings winning despite being the 8th seed had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that post-Carter trade they were the best Corsi team since the stat's inception in 07-08.

Well fine indeed. I don't know who you are arguing with, but it clearly isn't with me. All I'm arguing is that Murray was effective on the pk and now you are sarcastically calling Murray a Norris d man and for some reason brought up an entire teams corsi...

 

[Coily]

And stopping forwards from getting to rebounds by boxing them out. I don't watch the east as much as I should but isn't there this french Canadian goalie that allows a bunch of rebounds? Hmmm what is his name? Kind of sounds like a McDonalds desert...

I believe I said that with. Use body

 

[WTFetus]

Honestly he was just good for using his body and blocking shots.

Pretty much. But his negatives far outweigh his positives. His extremely slow speed forced him to give up the blue-line too easily, and he couldn't get to any loose pucks which allowed the opposition to constantly cycle.

You know what, fine. You win. Murray was a great PKer and a wonderful Norris-caliber defenseman and Larry Robinson was obviously right to trot him out there every game despite a mountain of evidence that said he blows.

Don't forget that Vlasic has the 2nd best break-out pass on the team.

 

[Crafton]

Good thing for us that Shero isn't a stats guy.

actually he is.

I don’t think we’ve made an impact decision since then without consulting the analytics, MacKinnon [Penguins director of player personnel] said. I’ll put it that way.

he made a statement that with Murray/Morrow he chose to willfully ignore stats because of some malarkey about heart and huger.

 

[Negatively Positive]

actually he is.



he made a statement that with Murray/Morrow he chose to willfully ignore stats because of some malarkey about heart and huger.

Well I'm glad he chose to ignore the stats on Murray because he definitely wouldn't and shouldn't have given up that much for Murray if he's basing on stats. Although if he got Murray solely on heart and warrior-like mentality then Sharks fans can't really disagree because for all his faults, he's still a warrior and plays with a lot of heart.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Well I'm glad he chose to ignore the stats on Murray because he definitely wouldn't and shouldn't have given up that much for Murray if he's basing on stats. Although if he got Murray solely on heart and warrior-like mentality then Sharks fans can't really disagree because for all his faults, he's still a warrior and plays with a lot of heart.

Too bad his heart couldn't help him skate faster or have better puck-handling skills. Puck was a damn grenade on his stick.

 

[Crafton]

Well I'm glad he chose to ignore the stats on Murray because he definitely wouldn't and shouldn't have given up that much for Murray if he's basing on stats. Although if he got Murray solely on heart and warrior-like mentality then Sharks fans can't really disagree because for all his faults, he's still a warrior and plays with a lot of heart.

oh i agree. as a fan of both teams, i'm relieved he is off this blueline. as for the pens side, well that's dormant as i seethe in my rage over seeing my favorite prospect dealt for Brenden ****in' Morrow.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

oh i agree. as a fan of both teams, i'm relieved he is off this blueline. as for the pens side, well that's dormant as i seethe in my rage over seeing my favorite prospect dealt for Brenden ****in' Morrow.

Ha ha.

Honestly though .. its hard to feel bad for a team which has Crosby and Malkin on it. I mean come on.