Dougie Hamilton III

[GloryDaze4877]

Concerns over his play are fine. Moving him for less than they should have gotten in return is not. That's the heart of the issue. Not that they moved a guy (no matter how badly you want to turn it into that kind of argument), but that they moved a current roster player for the chance the guy they drafted turns into a roster player in 4 years. They weakened the now for a chance at the future, and the guy they took is literally an unknown. And to make it even worse, the now looked pretty shaky before the deal, and flat out crappy now. So you can enjoy watching Adam McQuaid be misused as a top 4 and dream about the future if you want, I'll stay in the now and see how stupid this deal is for today and the next 3-5 years, until we know what the future really is.

but hey, enjoy those day dreams about 5 years from now. Everyone they drafted will surely pan out because every one of their first round picks always do!!

and over...




and over...

 

[Mathews28]

Really? Let's wait and see is the best answer you have? You do realize that professional sports in terms of fandom is about instantaneous gratification, right? Let's wait and see how it works out is the mantra of a GM, not the fan. In terms of what they did though, is they gave up a current player from the roster for a guy who may or may not ever make it to the league. So what's the worth of 3-4 years of NHL caliber play before you even get to find out what the guy they drafted is capable of, if anything at all? They made the current roster worse for nothing more than a possibility. It's a risk all GM's make, but as a fan, I hate the idea of it. A regular player/contributor to their NHL team today is worth far more than the potential of someone who may or may not even make it. And even if they do make it, are they going to be as good as the guy they gave up? All in all, the fans have every right to be critical of this move, because this move sucks in the short term, and the long term is nothing more than a chance.

Seems like a blanket statement that doesn't recognize differences in team makeup, how close to contention the team is or cap issues.

A team with room is much more likely to seek valuable existing NHL talent which probably carries some significant cap hit. A team that thinks they're knocking on the door and need that one or two additional pieces might also be inclined to seek current NHL contributors. The team that's miles away or in cap hell isn't nearly as likely to do so unless they can find that bargain guy who's about to break out...but that gets back to chance and wait and see.

I get that there is risk and waiting involved in acquiring picks, but that may be the prescribed course of action in many cases.

 

[LSCII]

Seems like a blanket statement that doesn't recognize differences in team makeup, how close to contention the team is or cap issues.

A team with room is much more likely to seek valuable existing NHL talent which probably carries some significant cap hit. A team that thinks they're knocking on the door and need that one or two additional pieces might also be inclined to seek current NHL contributors. The team that's miles away or in cap hell isn't nearly as likely to do so unless they can find that bargain guy who's about to break out...but that gets back to chance and wait and see.

I get that there is risk and waiting involved in acquiring picks, but that may be the prescribed course of action in many cases.

I'd be more sympathetic if Neely and Sweeney walked into this bad cap situation but let's not forget they were there the entire time. Yes PC was the GM, but Neely still had to sign off on whatever he wanted, and he did. He has culpability in regards to how this **** show happened, and now still do now when they're dumping roster players for futures just to fix it. The other piece of it is the young players not advancing. Is that because they were draft busts or is it because the coach prefers veterans? I know my view.

 

[LSCII]

and over...




and over...

Solid rebuttal, Joe...

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Solid rebuttal, Joe...

and over...



and over...



When you come up with some new material, so will I. One can only hear the Wade Redden over Krug stuff so many times before your ears start to bleed.


Moving on to Cincinnati...

 

[LSCII]

and over...



and over...



When you come up with some new material, so will I. One can only hear the Wade Redden over Krug stuff so many times before your ears start to bleed.


Moving on to Cincinnati...

You don't think it's a glaring example of what our coach prefers? You know, the same guy they retained, despite saying they wanted to do everything pretty much the opposite of what he's good at? None of that is relevant to you? Oh yeah, that's because I forgot that to you, the idea of a prospect and their potential is far better than an actual guy who is in the league today. Never mind what I said earlier. Instead I'm going to get on board with you:

 

[GloryDaze4877]

You don't think it's a glaring example of what our coach prefers? You know, the same guy they retained, despite saying they wanted to do everything pretty much the opposite of what he's good at? None of that is relevant to you? Oh yeah, that's because I forgot that to you, the idea of a prospect and their potential is far better than an actual guy who is in the league today. Never mind what I said earlier. Instead I'm going to get on board with you:

Krug played, did well, and is now an NHL regular that gets a lot of minutes from the coach that supposedly hates him...

You lost me.

 

[ODAAT]

Krug played, did well, and is now an NHL regular that gets a lot of minutes from the coach that supposedly hates him...

You lost me.

hates him and has/is ruining him

 

[LSCII]

Krug played, did well, and is now an NHL regular that gets a lot of minutes from the coach that supposedly hates him...

You lost me.

Well done. Cut out the context of how he ended up playing to justify your view of the coach. How did Krug come to play in the playoffs after playing all of 1 measley regular season game that year? If Claude was so pro Krug, why was he on the ice for all of 15:47 of time during the regular season? I mean, Redden was a late season addition at the deadline, but he got 6 games in. Bart got 11 games. Aaron Johnson got 10 games, FFS. Even Lane Freaking MacDermid got 3 games.

Johnson was so good that the 10 games he played for Boston were his last 10 games in the league.

MacDermid was so good that he's had all of 7 more games in the NHL since his 3 with Boston that year.

Redden was so good that he retired after that stint in Boston.

You see what I'm talking about? Julien had no faith, as in ZERO, in Krug. He was literally the last option. So you don't get to say Julien developed him and brought him along to be an NHL player. He became an NHL player DESPITE Claude Julien. And guess what? You can say the same thing about Spooner. He forced Julien to play him, despite the fact that Julien did not want to. The guy is a huge problem and the main reason none of the young guys have managed to become NHL contributing players. You want a roster of young players, Claude is the wrong guy for the job.

I can hardly wait until the season when Morrow and C. Miller are playing in Providence, and we're watching the faster, more nimble transition game being run by Chara, Seidenberg, McQuaid, K. Miller, Irwin, and Krug. It's going to be hilarious to hear you justify how well the coach does with young players.

 

[Stone Clode]

Well done. Cut out the context of how he ended up playing to justify your view of the coach. How did Krug come to play in the playoffs after playing all of 1 measley regular season game that year? If Claude was so pro Krug, why was he on the ice for all of 15:47 of time during the regular season? I mean, Redden was a late season addition at the deadline, but he got 6 games in. Bart got 11 games. Aaron Johnson got 10 games, FFS. Even Lane Freaking MacDermid got 3 games.

Johnson was so good that the 10 games he played for Boston were his last 10 games in the league.

MacDermid was so good that he's had all of 7 more games in the NHL since his 3 with Boston that year.

Redden was so good that he retired after that stint in Boston.

You see what I'm talking about? Julien had no faith, as in ZERO, in Krug. He was literally the last option. So you don't get to say Julien developed him and brought him along to be an NHL player. He became an NHL player DESPITE Claude Julien. And guess what? You can say the same thing about Spooner. He forced Julien to play him, despite the fact that Julien did not want to. The guy is a huge problem and the main reason none of the young guys have managed to become NHL contributing players. You want a roster of young players, Claude is the wrong guy for the job.

I can hardly wait until the season when Morrow and C. Miller are playing in Providence, and we're watching the faster, more nimble transition game being run by Chara, Seidenberg, McQuaid, K. Miller, Irwin, and Krug. It's going to be hilarious to hear you justify how well the coach does with young players.

Well, it's good to know that your memory fails you yet again, Lonnie.

I would love for you to name me how many NHL players went from college straight to the NHL? No time whatsoever in the AHL. Let alone undrafted free agents. Torey Krug wasn't a "LAST RESORT". It was LITERALLY HIS FIRST FULL SEASON AS A PROFESSIONAL. You know how RARE that is to make a pro team, let alone a team that was 4th in the East that year? You can't even use Chris Kreider as an example, because he was one of the most highly touted players in his draft class.

Don't compare Krug to Spooner or any guy like him in any way. Krug played a full year in the AHL, his first professional season. He got a chance in the playoffs thanks to injury, and boom, he kept his spot. It's not as if he was wasting away in the minors. And I forgot, he was just a guy you were clamoring for to make the NHL. Oh wait...he wasn't. Again, stop comparing him to Spooner and other rookies. It's a terrible argument and your hindsight bias is controlling you here.

You keep bringing that argument up. The whole 'Wade Redden first' blah blah blah. It's bad. It's wrong. It's hindsight. Stop.

 

[Mathews28]

I'd be more sympathetic if Neely and Sweeney walked into this bad cap situation but let's not forget they were there the entire time. Yes PC was the GM, but Neely still had to sign off on whatever he wanted, and he did. He has culpability in regards to how this **** show happened, and now still do now when they're dumping roster players for futures just to fix it. The other piece of it is the young players not advancing. Is that because they were draft busts or is it because the coach prefers veterans? I know my view.

On the culpability issue, I can't disagree at all. In fact when Chairelli was a whipping boy, I would opine that moves, good or bad, were likely FRONT OFFICE moves...not the act of one individual. I still believe this to be true, Sweeney isn't solely to blame, or to be credited for, the moves we've seen...that includes Dougie.

I've not focused too much on the how and why of the Bruins situation as opposed to looking at things as "here's where they are...and here's what needs to be done."
With that perspective I think it's more understandable that the Bruins secured picks, not players that would return with a cap hit, for Dougie.

When the deal went down, I was much less bothered by the return than most, but that's because I didn't value Hamilton as much as most did/do. The deficiencies I think I saw in his game, i.e the lazy pass, the ill-advised pinch, the late jump on a player skating by him, the very poor use of his size, had me believing, pre trade, that this kid is a #2 at best, a #3 more likely. To that end, the return wasn't that bad. It wasn't until after the trade that I heard from fans, writers, opponents that the Bruins had given away a #1 talent for little return.

I guess I was less shocked by the return for Dougie than how poorly I apparently evaluated him, because it seems he's more of a stud than I ever thought.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Well done. Cut out the context of how he ended up playing to justify your view of the coach. How did Krug come to play in the playoffs after playing all of 1 measley regular season game that year? If Claude was so pro Krug, why was he on the ice for all of 15:47 of time during the regular season? I mean, Redden was a late season addition at the deadline, but he got 6 games in. Bart got 11 games. Aaron Johnson got 10 games, FFS. Even Lane Freaking MacDermid got 3 games.

Johnson was so good that the 10 games he played for Boston were his last 10 games in the league.

MacDermid was so good that he's had all of 7 more games in the NHL since his 3 with Boston that year.

Redden was so good that he retired after that stint in Boston.

You see what I'm talking about? Julien had no faith, as in ZERO, in Krug. He was literally the last option. So you don't get to say Julien developed him and brought him along to be an NHL player. He became an NHL player DESPITE Claude Julien. And guess what? You can say the same thing about Spooner. He forced Julien to play him, despite the fact that Julien did not want to. The guy is a huge problem and the main reason none of the young guys have managed to become NHL contributing players. You want a roster of young players, Claude is the wrong guy for the job.

I can hardly wait until the season when Morrow and C. Miller are playing in Providence, and we're watching the faster, more nimble transition game being run by Chara, Seidenberg, McQuaid, K. Miller, Irwin, and Krug. It's going to be hilarious to hear you justify how well the coach does with young players.

More revisionist history.

As far as acquiring Redden, I didn't think that was on Clode, thought that was Chia's job? And seeing as how Redden played in OTT while Chia was there, don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to connect the dots.

Julien had probably seen very little of Krug all year, as he was in PRO. I know that occasionally, when the B's are off, CJ may catch a PB's game, but it doesn't happen very often. He would have no reason to have any confidence in Krug, but once he saw him play, injuries or not, krug was in the lineup and has remained in the lineup since that time.

But, that's OK you just keep on spewing that same ole, same ole

 

[LSCII]

Well, it's good to know that your memory fails you yet again, Lonnie.

I would love for you to name me how many NHL players went from college straight to the NHL? No time whatsoever in the AHL. Let alone undrafted free agents. Torey Krug wasn't a "LAST RESORT". It was LITERALLY HIS FIRST FULL SEASON AS A PROFESSIONAL. You know how RARE that is to make a pro team, let alone a team that was 4th in the East that year? You can't even use Chris Kreider as an example, because he was one of the most highly touted players in his draft class.

Don't compare Krug to Spooner or any guy like him in any way. Krug played a full year in the AHL, his first professional season. He got a chance in the playoffs thanks to injury, and boom, he kept his spot. It's not as if he was wasting away in the minors. And I forgot, he was just a guy you were clamoring for to make the NHL. Oh wait...he wasn't. Again, stop comparing him to Spooner and other rookies. It's a terrible argument and your hindsight bias is controlling you here.

You keep bringing that argument up. The whole 'Wade Redden first' blah blah blah. It's bad. It's wrong. It's hindsight. Stop.

Right, it was his first season. One that he was so raw, he couldn't get more than one game in Boston. Yet there we was in the playoffs pulling regular duty. You don't find that to be counter intuitive? He wasn't good enough to play during the regular season, where any mistake he makes won't be magnified, yet he was plucked out of nowhere and was a very productive player during the playoffs where any mistake is magnified? Wouldn't it have made more sense to maybe get him some minutes before that point? Yet, the only time Julien played him was when he had to. He was forced. As in no other options. Which is exactly what I'm talking about. I'd also say that played into why Hamilton wanted out. Julien is not the guy to bring young players along. He's a strict adherence to the system kind of coach and he doesn't allow for any improvisation. Not the right guy for this rebuild.

 

[LSCII]

More revisionist history.

As far as acquiring Redden, I didn't think that was on Clode, thought that was Chia's job? And seeing as how Redden played in OTT while Chia was there, don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to connect the dots.

Julien had probably seen very little of Krug all year, as he was in PRO. I know that occasionally, when the B's are off, CJ may catch a PB's game, but it doesn't happen very often. He would have no reason to have any confidence in Krug, but once he saw him play, injuries or not, krug was in the lineup and has remained in the lineup since that time.

But, that's OK you just keep on spewing that same ole, same ole

So you're suggesting that PC wanted to add a d man, and that Claude was saying "Hey Pete, don't bother getting me a veteran dman at the deadline. Instead, let's call up a rookie."??

And again, you think it's smart to leave a guy in Providence where he gets very little NHL caliber competition, but then drop him into the mix in long cup run? You don't think it would have made more sense to get him some minutes in the regular season before that point? Why wouldn't Claude have done that, you know, since he so clearly loves young offensive minded players?

To me, Krug and Spooner have experienced similar paths. Without both of them coming and and forcing Julien to keep playing them, neither would have gotten a fair shake.

 

[Mathews28]

I'd say Spooner, more than Krug, was a delayed get called up when he seemed ready, due to Clodes insecurity about using the kid. While the jury is still out on what value Spooner will ultimately bring long-term, he clearly was given no benefit of the doubt by Julien.

Just as I always say the Front Office is a team, so I suspect is the rest of the organization, so one man may not have as much clout as we think. That said, maybe others in the organization had something to do with Spooner's arrival being delayed.

But when the issue of Clode's stubborness comes up I often think back to the playoffs a couple of years ago when the Habs 4th line was killing the Bruins and Clode continued to roll Thornton and Campbell and whoever else out there. Some of us suggested a change...I think Brain of J might have been on board with this...and one of the suggestions was to bring Spooner and maybe someone else up and give the Habs 4th line something to worry about in terms of speed. Never happened, Bruins lost and although you can't say that is the only reason why it does point to an inability of CLode to break away from is approach, his system, his trust of vets.

IMO, this also extends to his hesitance to utilize young players and this stifles their development, their confidence, their creativity, their attitudes.

 

[Patrice Krejci*]

Lol what happened here?

 

[LSCII]

I'd say Spooner, more than Krug, was a delayed get called up when he seemed ready, due to Clodes insecurity about using the kid. While the jury is still out on what value Spooner will ultimately bring long-term, he clearly was given no benefit of the doubt by Julien.

Just as I always say the Front Office is a team, so I suspect is the rest of the organization, so one man may not have as much clout as we think. That said, maybe others in the organization had something to do with Spooner's arrival being delayed.

But when the issue of Clode's stubborness comes up I often think back to the playoffs a couple of years ago when the Habs 4th line was killing the Bruins and Clode continued to roll Thornton and Campbell and whoever else out there. Some of us suggested a change...I think Brain of J might have been on board with this...and one of the suggestions was to bring Spooner and maybe someone else up and give the Habs 4th line something to worry about in terms of speed. Never happened, Bruins lost and although you can't say that is the only reason why it does point to an inability of CLode to break away from is approach, his system, his trust of vets.

IMO, this also extends to his hesitance to utilize young players and this stifles their development, their confidence, their creativity, their attitudes.

Agree completely that Neely, Sweeney, and the rest of the folks that make up the front office share a certain level of culpability along side Julien for how they've handled the younger players. Even if it's simply because they allowed him to bury certain players in the minors. The tacit agreement makes them all complicit, IMO.

In regards to Spooner, I think early in the season, and because of Claude's track record here, he was being listened to by the rest of the FO, and they were okay with him not wanting Spooner up. By the point Spooner came back up, I think you're correct in guessing that the move had more to do with other people disagreeing with CJ, than it being Claude's call. If given his choice, I'd be stunned to hear he actually wanted Spooner here. I also think that Hamilton saying he had zero interest in resigning was an eye opener for them. I think that shocked Sweeney a bit, TBH. It's why I think the decision to retain Claude was incredibly misguided.

 

[LSCII]

Lol what happened here?

In summary? Apparently, some other posters here are upset I don't see the value of futures over current NHL players, and don't think I should be critical when the team trades roster players for picks.

 

[Stone Clode]

In summary? Apparently, some other posters here are upset I don't see the value of futures over current NHL players, and don't think I should be critical when the team trades roster players for picks.

You put as much spin on things as the Red Sox front office does.

 

[LSCII]

You put as much spin on things as the Red Sox front office does.

I take incredible offense to that statement.















I'm far better at the spin game than those assclowns are...

 

[finchster]

Maloney said he was never approached by the Bruins for the number 3 so what was Sweeney looking for with his 3 picks,if not 1 or 2?

Bruins had six picks in the first sixty. They didn't have to trade the the three first round picks, there were any number of combinations. Sweeney wanted to move up and failed.

 

[BNHL]

Bruins had six picks in the first sixty. They didn't have to trade the the three first round picks, there were any number of combinations. Sweeney wanted to move up and failed.

How far up? Everyone assumed number 3 and that was denied. Who or what was his real target?

 

[finchster]

How far up? Everyone assumed number 3 and that was denied. Who or what was his real target?

We know he tried to trade up and we know he didn't talk to the Coyotes for the third pick. However, we do know that the Coyotes took Strome with the third pick. Maybe Sweeney knew they were not going to take Hanfin because the Coyotes have a pretty solid young defencem IMO but weak at forward. If I were to venture a guess, either of Hanfin (5th), Provorov (7th), or Werenski (8th) were pretty solid prospect replacements for Hamilton.

Even if they weren't concerned with how they appeared trading Hamilton, I'd have to imagine everyone in that front office knows they need a young stud defensive prospect.

 

[Patrice Krejci*]

How far up? Everyone assumed number 3 and that was denied. Who or what was his real target?

I think Provorov was the real target but Philadelphia never wants to lose out on defense again/Sweeney wouldn't give up all they wanted. 3 1st's. I bet Boston wanted to walk away with Provorov, Debrusk, and Sesy.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

I think Provorov was the real target but Philadelphia never wants to lose out on defense again/Sweeney wouldn't give up all they wanted. 3 1st's. I bet Boston wanted to walk away with Provorov, Debrusk, and Sesy.

I agree with this.