Value of: Doughty to Toronto

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Speaking strictly from a TO roster point of view, the difference between Rielly an Doughty is not Marner. Marner+? Sure, but adding Doughty while subtracting Rielly isn't the goal.

Agreed entirely. I wouldn't move Marner/Nylander + Rielly for Doughty from TO's end.

If I'm LA, I don't move DD in the first place but for the sake of conversation, Marner/Nylander + Rielly would be my ask from Toronto knowing that Matthews is not available. Toronto would (rightfully) decline.
 

TheBannermen

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Aug 2, 2005
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You have no cap space, no blue chip prospects, and no depth. You don't have enough skill up front, and you have no means of improving the situation. You are not Pittsburgh.

You're in this painful spot -- I remember it well -- where you have to convince yourself a coach's system is the reason you're not successful. You're about to spend the next two years chasing the absolute mediocrity of the 1st round appearance. Believe me, it's already miserable, you're just new at this.


Right. I joined the bandwagon in 2012 when the Kings won that big shiny silver thing. After that, I was hooked, brah.

Please. The Kings being mediocre is the norm, not the exception. I've seen failed rebuilds, baffling trades and people celebrating single playoff wins like Stanley Cups.

Point being, I've seen enough bad to know that the current state of the franchise isn't miserable. You bring up Pittsburgh. Those blue chip, can't miss prospects Sheary, Rust and Guentzel really changed their fortunes. Where are we going to find studs like those? How did they land a phenom like Justin Schultz? Or a perennial winner like Phil Kessel? Man, how can their core, who is about the same age as LA's, go 8 years between Cups? They must be sorcerers. Good thing they didn't sell off their guys to Toronto for Tyler Bozak and Nazem Kadri.

Pretty sure that core was written off too, but a few adjustments and a change in philosophy and leadership brought them right back to the dance. I understand LA doesn't have a Crosby or Malkin, but they're not exactly light years away either.

The Kings may end up being eliminated in the first round for the next few seasons. Or they could retool a bit and become a legit threat again. I don't know for sure, and neither do you. I know, that's tough to accept.
 

CanadienShark

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I would give up Marner+ or Nylander+ for Drew Doughty without batting an eye, depending on the +. Unfortunately for us, there is no chance in hell Los Angeles would reciprocate.

Oh to be clear, I mean it'd have to be a significant piece for Nylander, and a good piece for Marner. And that's if and only if LA wants to go scorched earth.

Honestly I'd expect them to demand Rielly + Nylander, but for obvious reasons Toronto wouldn't be interested.
 

bert

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Leafs don't want to trade any of their big 3

Kings don't want to trade Doughty

Lol if Doughty is on the table for Marner or Nylander the leafs do not hesitate for a second. Which no offense but you arent getting a norris leve D man for a scoring winger .
 

member 157595

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Oh to be clear, I mean it'd have to be a significant piece for Nylander, and a good piece for Marner. And that's if and only if LA wants to go scorched earth.

Honestly I'd expect them to demand Rielly + Nylander, but for obvious reasons Toronto wouldn't be interested.

Ah OK. You and I are basically on the same page then.

Lol if Doughty is on the table for Marner or Nylander the leafs do not hesitate for a second. Which no offense but you arent getting a norris leve D man for a scoring winger .

As a Leafs fan, if Kings management were somehow drunk/high/stupid/desperate/all-of-the-above enough to move DD for Marner or Nylander straight up I'd dance naked in the streets.

Obviously, it's the "+" that is the problem. If the "+" is Rielly, it's a no-go from Toronto. The discussion is futile anyways because the Kings shouldn't, and won't, move Drew Doughty.
 

La Cosa Nostra

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Doughty for Marner+Rielly is fair value wise. Top 5 Dman cost a lot, especially ones who are 27 and aren't injury prone.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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Why would a very young team trade a franchise winger and young 1d for a 27-year-old?

Veteran, 2x cup winning, 2x gold medal winning, top-3 d-man in the league in his prime? Yeah why would anyone want that sort of stabilizing influence, especially knowing that d-men typically age very well, especially when they wouldn't even have to give up their most valuable piece?

Doughty has more impact on the game, flat out, and TO will only have so much money to go around, can't throw it ALL at your forwards...
 

Cory Trevor

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Why would a very young team trade a franchise winger and young 1d for a 27-year-old?

Because that player is an assistant captain who is a bonafide #1D man with two rings, and is a top 3 player at his position.

And because he is only 27.

If Marner can get to 50% of Doughty Leafs should thank their lucky stars.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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Any Leafs fans saying they wouldn't do Marner/Nylander+1st + is crazy.

For Doughty:
I'd include Nylander, 20 years old, will transition to center, can play on the wing currently with Kopitar/Carter. Has all the tools to be a top 6 center if one of those 2 move on. Played in Modo with Kempe.

Gardiner or Rielly

A 1st if required

My core would be Matthews/Marner/Doughty/Gardiner or Rielly/Andersen and draft to fill in the rest.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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Why would a very young team trade a franchise winger and young 1d for a 27-year-old?

Is that all Doughty is, a 27-year old? Is that considered ancient now?

The stuff people post on here. I'm waiting for a poster to claim that Rielly has better puck poise than Drew Doughty. We need a new Skoula vs. Lidstrom debate.
 

Cory Trevor

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For Doughty:
I'd include Nylander, 20 years old, will transition to center, can play on the wing currently with Kopitar/Carter. Has all the tools to be a top 6 center if one of those 2 move on. Played in Modo with Kempe.

Gardiner or Rielly

A 1st if required

My core would be Matthews/Marner/Doughty/Gardiner or Rielly/Andersen and draft to fill in the rest.

Would be required.

A package like

Nyander/Marner
Gardiner/Rielly
1st
and a 2nd.

That's pretty close I think.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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For Doughty:
I'd include Nylander, 20 years old, will transition to center, can play on the wing currently with Kopitar/Carter. Has all the tools to be a top 6 center if one of those 2 move on. Played in Modo with Kempe.

Gardiner or Rielly

A 1st if required

My core would be Matthews/Marner/Doughty/Gardiner or Rielly/Andersen and draft to fill in the rest.

If Doughty HAD to go I'd probably be okay with this. I'd beg for more picks given the precedent of the Pronger trade but the major pieces are there.

But ugh, so hard to stomach :laugh:
 

Liferleafer

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For Doughty:
I'd include Nylander, 20 years old, will transition to center, can play on the wing currently with Kopitar/Carter. Has all the tools to be a top 6 center if one of those 2 move on. Played in Modo with Kempe.

Gardiner or Rielly

A 1st if required

My core would be Matthews/Marner/Doughty/Gardiner or Rielly/Andersen and draft to fill in the rest.

I wouldn't do that. Doughty is great...legit 1D, but that is to much to give up. I mean again, i can't think of an equivalent package to that from any other team that would be accepted. I mean a 60+ point rookie, a 23 year old top pair D and a 1st?
 

Liferleafer

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Would be required.

A package like

Nyander/Marner
Gardiner/Rielly
1st
and a 2nd.

That's pretty close I think.

Again, use that proposal as a parameter and put a package together from ANY other team....seriously.

60+point 20 year old
23 year old top pair D
1st
2nd

I mean ask the Jets if they'd do Laine and Trouba....even minus the 1st and second as Laine has higher value.
 

Starat327

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I wouldn't do that. Doughty is great...legit 1D, but that is to much to give up. I mean again, i can't think of an equivalent package to that from any other team that would be accepted. I mean a 60+ point rookie, a 23 year old top pair D and a 1st?

For the record, i'm not advocating trading any of them, but a lot of the bolded may have to do with the fact that not many teams have 3 of them.

Edit:

Not sure if they would or not, but Winnipeg - Ehlers, Morrissey and 1st/2nd
 
Last edited:

McDraekke

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Again, use that proposal as a parameter and put a package together from ANY other team....seriously.

60+point 20 year old
23 year old top pair D
1st
2nd

I mean ask the Jets if they'd do Laine and Trouba....even minus the 1st and second as Laine has higher value.

Hmmm... Looking at this template from the Oilers...

Puljujarvi (obviously hasn't hit anywhere near 60 points yet, but he is yet to be 20 and has the potential)
Klefbom
1st
2nd

It wouldn't work with the cap, and would cause chaos with McDavid and Drai's contracts, but I would make this trade if there were no cap implications 100%.

Edmonton learned that you have to give good or even better value on paper to make your team better as a whole. Toronto will need to learn this lesson too, if they want to improve from without. If I were a Leaf's fan, I would make the trade of Nylander, Reilly, 1st and 2nd every day of the week to acquire Doughty.

Edit: Doughty might be the one player I would pick ahead of McDavid right now if I were making a team from scratch. Think about that, coming from an Oilers fan.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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I wouldn't do that. Doughty is great...legit 1D, but that is to much to give up. I mean again, i can't think of an equivalent package to that from any other team that would be accepted. I mean a 60+ point rookie, a 23 year old top pair D and a 1st?

The question is how big of a value is it to upgrade from a #1 who gets crushed in his top pairing minutes to a guy who can play 5+ more minutes a game and absolutely crush those minutes. I think that would make Toronto absolutely monstrous with minimal damage considering Matthews and one of Nylander/Marner would still be there.

I mean people on this forum have been mocking Doughty endlessly over the last year but the goal numbers with him on vs. off the ice are absolutely staggering. Reilly has the opposite concern.

No one is saying give up Matthews, but it would absolutely cost Marner or Nylander + Reilly or Gardener to start.

I can understand the hesitancy because it's not like anyone here wants to give up Doughty for anything but his value is getting pretty badly downplayed here. And I'm starting to wonder if it's just because he's not flashy.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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I wouldn't do that. Doughty is great...legit 1D, but that is to much to give up. I mean again, i can't think of an equivalent package to that from any other team that would be accepted. I mean a 60+ point rookie, a 23 year old top pair D and a 1st?

Hey it pains me to lose Rielly but this is a 27 year old Norris trophy winner. Very familiar with Babcock. RHD. Montreal has Weber and Price with no 1st line center. Ottawa isn't worried Karlsson is 27.
Find a top 4 LHD through UFA if required. You don't need a no. 1 D to play with Doughty. Hope a player like Dermott rises to the occasion.

You'd have Babcock,Matthews,Marner,Kadri,Doughty,Gardiner,Andersen as your core.
Plus Mark Hunter. If he's the scout he's supposed to be, fill in the blanks. He doesn't need to find a no. 1 C or D. We got that. We have a lot of picks in the next 2 years. It's a weak draft. Move this 1st and then hold onto them.

I make the deal.
 

McDraekke

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The question is how big of a value is it to upgrade from a #1 who gets crushed in his top pairing minutes to a guy who can play 5+ more minutes a game and absolutely crush those minutes.

I mean people on this forum have been mocking Doughty endlessly over the last year but the goal numbers with him on vs. off the ice are absolutely staggering. Reilly has the opposite concern.

No one is saying give up Matthews, but it would absolutely cost Marner or Nylander + Reilly or Gardener to start.

I can understand the hesitancy because it's not like anyone here wants to give up Doughty for anything but his value is getting pretty badly downplayed here. And I'm starting to wonder if it's just because he's not flashy.

This is it, 100%.
 

WHOneedsSOX

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Hmmm... Looking at this template from the Oilers...

Puljujarvi (obviously hasn't hit anywhere near 60 points yet, but he is yet to be 20 and has the potential)
Klefbom
1st
2nd

It wouldn't work with the cap, and would cause chaos with McDavid and Drai's contracts, but I would make this trade if there were no cap implications 100%.

Edmonton learned that you have to give good or even better value on paper to make your team better as a whole. Toronto will need to learn this lesson too, if they want to improve from without. If I were a Leaf's fan, I would make the trade of Nylander, Reilly, 1st and 2nd every day of the week to acquire Doughty.

Edit: Doughty might be the one player I would pick ahead of McDavid right now if I were making a team from scratch. Think about that, coming from an Oilers fan.

You'd take Doughty over McDavid? Man, I don't know about that one. If they were closer in age I miiiight go Doughty but that's a 7+ year age difference. Not saying Doughty is old or out of his prime or anything but 7 years is a huge gap. You ask me right now to choose one and I'm going McDavid.
 

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