Management Don Sweeney V

[LSCII]

Doesn't make enough.

Hmmm. Now this just got interesting...

 

[Duguay]

I don't like everything he's done, but for the most part I'm a fan. I like the re-build on the fly because you really have no choice.

Backes, I like the player, don't love the contract but I'll worry about that when and if it becomes a major problem.

Love both his drafts,

Hated the Smith-Hayes deal, but Smith looks like a different player to me after becoming financially secure.

Beleskey to me earned his money last year. It's not a horrible contract, and he should play to 16-20 goals and 200+ hits when healthy. He needs a good center though.

Liked the Lucic trade. Hated the Hamilton deal at the time, until I read more about what happened. I also read an article someone here posted on Brian Burke and Hamilton and he said he outbid 12 teams with that package, so Hamilton wasn't worth as much as many of us thought I guess.

Hated the Stempniak/Liles trades, but I understand them. I understand why he didn't deal Eriksson as you can't pull the rug out like that.

Hated Moore and Schaller and that turned out way better than I thought.

I'm frustrated we haven't been able to make a hockey trade, but until I see one that I can be upset about not making there is nothing to say.

Most off I can see where everyone is coming from. I think there is a lot of frustration here. Nothing has been done on any level to get out of this malaise, I put a lot of it on the players and coach though. The players are well compensated, not being ready to play is on them and inexcusable. The coach has some blame too because he could make some statements with these stars. Break up Bergeron and Marchand. Put Pasta with someone else. In a blow out like yesterday, bench some guys, demote them down the lines.

Good post and good to talk some hockey with you again.

I don't disagree.

There are a couple ways to look at this (there always is) but I look at the next 3-4 month as both telling, and critical -- and this obviously directly relates to the future and fortunes of one Donald Clarke Sweeney.

It really kind of has to. This franchise (The Cam Neely led version) is coming to a crossroads the way I see it. The current regime is flagging and the brand continues to suffer.

To me this team is just as close as being bottom 3rd as it is Top 3rd. Clearly we're in the Middle 3rd now.

My question and concern is; can the youth step in and pick up the weight that our aging core can no longer carry?

I hope so, but I see an obvious gap there. And it's a gap that DS may not survive based on a previous statement from Ownership.

That's why I am suggesting that a trade; some futures for a youngish roster player could help bridge the Sweeney gap.

Clearly there are a couple out there, and there will be more to come.

Some prospects would have to be cashiered.

I guess some may think I am one of the growing 'anti Sweeney' guys, but I am not.
I want the guy to succeed, and I want his team to latch onto a plan and learn how to win with it.

Not really seeing that at this time.

As for Don's future, I don't believe there is enough evidence (one way or the other) to say that he's deserving of anything more than a mediocre grade.

As I have said, I think he needs to do something. Get something done. They won't let this team just kind of sit there and float. Nor should they.

When I look at the depth charts (and contracts) I see a mountain gap that DS is going to have to get past because it is not reasonable to expect Pasta, McAvoy, Senyshyn, DeBrusk & company to come right in there in win a Cup.

I hope he can figure something out cos a round or two this season would be very beneficial for all parties concerned, especially for this management team.

 

[Gee Wally]

from doc5hole:

No easy way out for B’s
http://blogs.southcoasttoday.com/bruins/2017/01/17/no-easy-way-out-for-bs/

 

[Duguay]

from doc5hole:

No easy way out for B’s
http://blogs.southcoasttoday.com/bruins/2017/01/17/no-easy-way-out-for-bs/

A great addition to the discussion Wally, thanks.

As stated, it is no easy feat to win a bunch of Cups anymore.

My expectations are that we have a team to follow that has a solid plan (assets and games), and implements the plan(s) to the best of their ability.

I want pride in the uniform, a no quit attitude. I think 'us against them' has always been a good formula to follow in Boston.

And, although it takes better than average Management to pull it off -- I want a team that is in the upper 1/3rd of the league, and contends year after year after year.

And IF the team happens to drop into the middle 3rd of the pack, it's a refit. A temporary stop to get the maps out and check on the road ahead.

Generally we have all been spoiled by contenders, year after year after year. And it is do-able. We had a blissful 3 years with PC, until he got drunk on his own wine.

He should have channeled the Black Hawks. We were right there in that.

I think right now this team is closer to a bottom 3rd team, than they are a top 3rd.

How long does it take to right? Is it enough time for this Management Group survive the wait?

 

[mikelvl]

A great addition to the discussion Wally, thanks.

As stated, it is no easy feat to win a bunch of Cups anymore.

My expectations are that we have a team to follow that has a solid plan (assets and games), and implements the plan(s) to the best of their ability.

I want pride in the uniform, a no quit attitude. I think 'us against them' has always been a good formula to follow in Boston.

And, although it takes better than average Management to pull it off -- I want a team that is in the upper 1/3rd of the league, and contends year after year after year.

And IF the team happens to drop into the middle 3rd of the pack, it's a refit. A temporary stop to get the maps out and check on the road ahead.

Generally we have all been spoiled by contenders, year after year after year. And it is do-able. We had a blissful 3 years with PC, until he got drunk on his own wine.

He should have channeled the Black Hawks. We were right there in that.

I think right now this team is closer to a bottom 3rd team, than they are a top 3rd.

How long does it take to right? Is it enough time for this Management Group survive the wait?

Well said, you nailed it.

 

[Bruinfanatic]

I think Sweeney is doing two things ,restocking the shelves with prospects which needed to be done they were depleted that's for certain .But is also trying to stay competitive with the trades and free agent signings he has made.Its tuff to do it that way seems you have to get really bad to get really good..Wouldn't want to be a GM gotta be tuff to convince the owner,we're gonna suck for a few years but we will reap the rewards.Guess we will see what way Sweeney is going personally I would wait to the trade deadline to make any moves.If Bruins continue to play the way they have,and Leafs and Sens win most f there games in hand,it will be an easy decision for him.Blow it up.

 

[LouJersey]

Good post and good to talk some hockey with you again.

I don't disagree.

There are a couple ways to look at this (there always is) but I look at the next 3-4 month as both telling, and critical -- and this obviously directly relates to the future and fortunes of one Donald Clarke Sweeney.

It really kind of has to. This franchise (The Cam Neely led version) is coming to a crossroads the way I see it. The current regime is flagging and the brand continues to suffer.

To me this team is just as close as being bottom 3rd as it is Top 3rd. Clearly we're in the Middle 3rd now.

My question and concern is; can the youth step in and pick up the weight that our aging core can no longer carry?

I hope so, but I see an obvious gap there. And it's a gap that DS may not survive based on a previous statement from Ownership.

That's why I am suggesting that a trade; some futures for a youngish roster player could help bridge the Sweeney gap.

Clearly there are a couple out there, and there will be more to come.

Some prospects would have to be cashiered.

I guess some may think I am one of the growing 'anti Sweeney' guys, but I am not.
I want the guy to succeed, and I want his team to latch onto a plan and learn how to win with it.

Not really seeing that at this time.

As for Don's future, I don't believe there is enough evidence (one way or the other) to say that he's deserving of anything more than a mediocre grade.

As I have said, I think he needs to do something. Get something done. They won't let this team just kind of sit there and float. Nor should they.

When I look at the depth charts (and contracts) I see a mountain gap that DS is going to have to get past because it is not reasonable to expect Pasta, McAvoy, Senyshyn, DeBrusk & company to come right in there in win a Cup.

I hope he can figure something out cos a round or two this season would be very beneficial for all parties concerned, especially for this management team.

Not even sure if it would be possible but to me dealing Krejci would be the key. I would make the Carlo plus deal for Lando. Try somehow to find a taker for Krejci and use his money for Shattenkirk in the offseason.

I would also somehow entice Vegas to take Beleskey. He would be a nice add for a first year team. Hopefully he comes back and gets his value up.

I think also JFK could maybe be ready for 3rd line duty next year, or maybe a cheap veteran. Maybe you can deal Spooner for a 3rd line pivot.

I think we are cooked this year. No play-offs again. The coach will more than likely pay, and that would truly be the definition of easier to fire the coach than the players, because I would move basically anyone on this team if there wasn't so many logistics with NMC, NTC and big contracts. There are options, but it's going to take some creativity to get it done.

A right side of Shatt, McAvoy and Chiller for next year would be the way I go. Chara, Krug and Kevan on the left side.

Top six of Marchand, Lando, Backes, Bergeron, Pasta and Vatrano/Heinen/DeBrusk.

 

[Dr Hook]

Not sure how far you'd get with this, but I'd consider adopting a No "No NMC, No No Trade Clause" for any contract going forward. I guess that might mean you'd lose a couple players over it, but it seems worth it to no be handcuffed as a team if/when the time comes that a player should go. If Boston got known as a club that never gave you that, would that kill them in the market? Or would guys sign anyway for a chance to play NHL hockey at a good salary?

Anyway, I'd like to see that approach tried. As an aside, when did these clauses get to be so common? It wasn't so long ago that they were pretty unusual to see.

 

[smithformeragent]

On what criterion is Don Sweeney to be judged?

What is his number one goal; to make the playoffs or to rebuild the talent for the future?

You can have multiple goals, but you can only have one top goal.

 

[Dr Hook]

On what criterion is Don Sweeney to be judged?

What is his number one goal; to make the playoffs or to rebuild the talent for the future?

You can have multiple goals, but you can only have one top goal.

Exactly- that is not really clear at this point, is it? We've been hearing the 'rebuild but still compete thing' but one or the other has to have the priority when push comes to shove, and I don't see how any GM can satisfy both those priorities on every single deal he makes. I guess we'll see what, if anything, happens leading up to the trade deadline. Once we have a better idea of what his top goal is (or what he's been told to make as his top goal) it'll be easier to judge.

 

[b in vancouver]

Not sure how far you'd get with this, but I'd consider adopting a No "No NMC, No No Trade Clause" for any contract going forward. I guess that might mean you'd lose a couple players over it, but it seems worth it to no be handcuffed as a team if/when the time comes that a player should go. If Boston got known as a club that never gave you that, would that kill them in the market? Or would guys sign anyway for a chance to play NHL hockey at a good salary?

Anyway, I'd like to see that approach tried. As an aside, when did these clauses get to be so common? It wasn't so long ago that they were pretty unusual to see.

The difficulty with that is players leave money on the table to get those NTCs and NMCs. You can get players to sign without them but it'll cost you a few extra $100k per contract and it'll add up.
Kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario - especially when other teams offer them up.

 

[Dr Hook]

The difficulty with that is players leave money on the table to get those NTCs and NMCs. You can get players to sign without them but it'll cost you a few extra $100k per contract and it'll add up.
Kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario - especially when other teams offer them up.

I get what you are saying, it just seems like a risk in all but a few cases. On the other hand, I guess if a team wants a player out badly enough, I guess you can get most of them to waive the clause if you find a good destination for them. Damned if you, damned if you don't seems like a fine summation. The GM who first introduced those as part of a deal to anyone but a superstar player must be wishing he'd not opened that door.

 

[BNHL]

On what criterion is Don Sweeney to be judged?

What is his number one goal; to make the playoffs or to rebuild the talent for the future?

You can have multiple goals, but you can only have one top goal.

I believe his first priority is to make the playoffs,which is why he didn't trade Eriksson last year. I think they might overrate themselves a bit,but if the management team remains intact,they are what they thought they were.

 

[bp13]

I feel for Sweeney a bit in that IF he did have 2-3 years down the road as his ultimate #1 goal, it's hard to stay in the job that long if you miss the playoffs for this particular owner.

My biggest issue is that if he's going to make any moves in the name of today or the future one more than the other, they have to start paying off. If he's going to keep Loui rather than add another pick or prospects or a guy like Shattenkirk for the defense, then that needs to work out. It did not. If he's going to sign Backes to compete now and commit to a deal that might cash-strap him in 2-3 years, then Backes better help this team get into the playoffs. He better be worth it the first few years. How's that look so far? If he's going to keep the coach rather than try a new approach that might be more kid-friendly, then that better pay off. Is it?

So ultimately some of his moves and non-moves need to start paying off.

 

[22Brad Park]

On what criterion is Don Sweeney to be judged?

What is his number one goal; to make the playoffs or to rebuild the talent for the future?

You can have multiple goals, but you can only have one top goal.

.He has to be set on the make playoffs cause if it was about building it to win the Cup each year he would have dealt Loui last year instead of losing him for nothing.That is 100% proof .Anyways you all know my opinion on him.Not beating that horse anymore.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

On what criterion is Don Sweeney to be judged?

What is his number one goal; to make the playoffs or to rebuild the talent for the future?

You can have multiple goals, but you can only have one top goal.

Sustained competitiveness. I'd say that's his primary goal.

 

[LouJersey]

I feel for Sweeney a bit in that IF he did have 2-3 years down the road as his ultimate #1 goal, it's hard to stay in the job that long if you miss the playoffs for this particular owner.

My biggest issue is that if he's going to make any moves in the name of today or the future one more than the other, they have to start paying off. If he's going to keep Loui rather than add another pick or prospects or a guy like Shattenkirk for the defense, then that needs to work out. It did not. If he's going to sign Backes to compete now and commit to a deal that might cash-strap him in 2-3 years, then Backes better help this team get into the playoffs. He better be worth it the first few years. How's that look so far? If he's going to keep the coach rather than try a new approach that might be more kid-friendly, then that better pay off. Is it?

So ultimately some of his moves and non-moves need to start paying off.

This team is talented enough where they should easily make the play-offs in this horrible division. I think the pieces were there. The players however must be tired from counting their millions or babysitting their kids or whatever the ****ing reason they are terrible at home. Then you have a coach who is more of an enabler than disciplinarian (Unless you are Spooner, Vatrano, Czarnik or Colin Miller) who does absolutely nothing to try to get this team going. You think making David Krejci a healthy scratch won't get to this bunch? Maybe give the top line 10 minutes ice time one night?

Is it Sweeney's fault that every player is basically having an "off" year?

 

[bp13]

This team is talented enough where they should easily make the play-offs in this horrible division. I think the pieces were there. The players however must be tired from counting their millions or babysitting their kids or whatever the ****ing reason they are terrible at home. Then you have a coach who is more of an enabler than disciplinarian (Unless you are Spooner, Vatrano, Czarnik or Colin Miller) who does absolutely nothing to try to get this team going. You think making David Krejci a healthy scratch won't get to this bunch? Maybe give the top line 10 minutes ice time one night?

Is it Sweeney's fault that every player is basically having an "off" year?

In short, yes. This is the mix of players he brought in. If your excuse for him is that they're all having "off" years, then why can't Julien adopt the same excuse? It's his fault the players are all having off years? At some point the guy in charge of the personnel needs to answer for the personnel. Now I'm not saying Julien wouldn't also be accountable, he would. But GM's are responsible for teams underperforming too.

And you can say all day that they are talented enough to "easily make the playoffs" but that's just your opinion. Everyone and their mother said they needed to add at least one, maybe two quality top 4 dmen this offseason. Sweeney added zero and got fortunate that Carlo gave him top 4 defense for a few months. Now he's slipped and you can see the issues developing. And up front, he's got "names" and added to them with Backes, but the mix isn't working. Like it or not that's on him in addition to the coach and the players themselves. I think this team has bottom seed playoff talent across the board, and that's roughly where they are. I'm on board with canning the coach to mix things up, but I also think the President needs to go and the water needs to get a little warmer under Sweeney's seat.

 

[NDiesel]

On what criterion is Don Sweeney to be judged?

What is his number one goal; to make the playoffs or to rebuild the talent for the future?

You can have multiple goals, but you can only have one top goal.

To me if given those two choices, personally, I think his top goal is to rebuild talent for the future. I think the secondary is to make the playoffs in the short term.

I think he's heading towards his top goal and doing a pretty good job, but failing on the secondary goal. Does that mean he's doing a good job if he meets his top goal but fails secondary ones? I would say so.

I would guess his real top goal is more to build the team so that long-term success is viable.

 

[LouJersey]

In short, yes. This is the mix of players he brought in. If your excuse for him is that they're all having "off" years, then why can't Julien adopt the same excuse? It's his fault the players are all having off years? At some point the guy in charge of the personnel needs to answer for the personnel. Now I'm not saying Julien wouldn't also be accountable, he would. But GM's are responsible for teams underperforming too.

And you can say all day that they are talented enough to "easily make the playoffs" but that's just your opinion. Everyone and their mother said they needed to add at least one, maybe two quality top 4 dmen this offseason. Sweeney added zero and got fortunate that Carlo gave him top 4 defense for a few months. Now he's slipped and you can see the issues developing. And up front, he's got "names" and added to them with Backes, but the mix isn't working. Like it or not that's on him in addition to the coach and the players themselves. I think this team has bottom seed playoff talent across the board, and that's roughly where they are. I'm on board with canning the coach to mix things up, but I also think the President needs to go and the water needs to get a little warmer under Sweeney's seat.

Because he's done nothing but enable. He's done zero to get these guys on a more consistent track. He's done nothing to make them more accountable. He's a loyal players coach (unless of course you are a rookie or youngster) and will just go down on the titanic.

Sweeney's bill will come due eventually. but crap franchises fire their GM after two seasons. Remember Chia's year one? Dave Lewis? Sweeney has a team that isn't great and isn't terrible. He's made moves like Backes and Beleskey to keep competitive and also made other moves with an eye to the future. Chiarelli got all these guys when they were young and hungry and Sweeney got them paid in full and fat. Chiarelli also made a few big trades and Sweeney down the line (maybe now, I would deal Carlo for Lando) will have no choice.. Again, this team to me is good enough to make it (3 seed in the division with a chance to beat the 2). The Leafs, Sens and Panthers aren't exactly the '72 Canadiens.

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

I think next year without playoffs is the last they'll give him, but particularly if we miss by 5+ pts this year and 5+ next. I'm nearly certain we miss by 5+ this year. Not even because we'll play much worse than we're playing now. Mostly because the others will be playing better.

 

[TimThomas24]

If I had it my way Fire Cam and keep Claude and Don. Then find an owner like Mark Cuban.

 

[Blowfish]

Better hope the cluster of NCAA players bruins have accumulated want to play for the bruins. Vesey should have been a no brainer to want to play for the bruins. And why would he decide against? Father
Said coaching.
Some folk aren't concerned but I'm not feeling warm and fuzzies about this situation. Especially with the lack lustre long term talent that is on this team plus coaching style for Yutes.

 

[smithformeragent]

In my opinion and based on some of the commentary between Milbury and McKenzie:

The mandate comes from above aka Jeremy/Charlie Jacobs: Make the playoffs.

Cam delivers said mandate to Sweeney. Where the line between Neely's role ends and Sweeney's begins, I can't say. garth Snow said on the air last night that no one GM has total control in today's NHL. It's a group effort. Is this true in Boston as well?

Thus, Sweeney has to balance things. He inherited a "cap jail" situation.
He inherited a good, but aging core without the complimentary pieces.
So far, he's maintained the status quo and hasn't dealt any of the core pieces.
He's moved on from guys like Hamilton and Lucic and added moderate to big pieces like Beleskey and Backes.

McKenzie says their prospect pool is absolutely stacked.
The team as presently constituted is mediocre at best.

Do you deal some of that stacked prospect pool for immediate help?
Do you hope that the likes of Bergeron and Marchand are still effective when the "cavalry" arrives?

 

[Blowfish]

In my opinion and based on some of the commentary between Milbury and McKenzie:

The mandate comes from above aka Jeremy/Charlie Jacobs: Make the playoffs.

Cam delivers said mandate to Sweeney. Where the line between Neely's role ends and Sweeney's begins, I can't say. garth Snow said on the air last night that no one GM has total control in today's NHL. It's a group effort. Is this true in Boston as well?

Thus, Sweeney has to balance things. He inherited a "cap jail" situation.
He inherited a good, but aging core without the complimentary pieces.
So far, he's maintained the status quo and hasn't dealt any of the core pieces.
He's moved on from guys like Hamilton and Lucic and added moderate to big pieces like Beleskey and Backes.

McKenzie says their prospect pool is absolutely stacked.
The team as presently constituted is mediocre at best.

Do you deal some of that stacked prospect pool for immediate help?
Do you hope that the likes of Bergeron and Marchand are still effective when the "cavalry" arrives?

That's if the cavalry arrives.