Player Discussion Dominik Kubalik

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Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
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No way.

Incredible how short people's memories are around here. Joseph was hot garbage last year. He was scratched for disciplinary reasons last year. Get rid of him while you can.

That's what worries me about this. Joseph is insanely streaky, and keeping him now because of a nice hot streak feels like something that will bite us in the butt down the road.

I do love his speed though. If only he would be more consistent.
 
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GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
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Joseph has played 70 games with the Sens. Without digging deep my observation is that he produces reasonably well when he is with a good centre. Isn’t that what you want from a low cost complementary middle 6 winger ?
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
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If Joseph was a consistent scorer he'd be a 7 million dollar player.

He's a prototypical top 9 tweener.

Speed, can keep up in a scoring role if you need him, is better served as PK1 and 3rd line energy winger.

A guy who is good for ~15g-20a with 14ish mins a game.

Very valuable piece to the team, even if he's overpaid by a couple hundred thousand at the moment.
 

swiftwin

★SUMMER.OF.STEVE★
Jul 26, 2005
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No way.

Incredible how short people's memories are around here. Joseph was hot garbage last year. He was scratched for disciplinary reasons last year. Get rid of him while you can.

He was also struggling with injuries all year.
 

bert

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Nov 11, 2002
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If Joseph was a consistent scorer he'd be a 7 million dollar player.

He's a prototypical top 9 tweener.

Speed, can keep up in a scoring role if you need him, is better served as PK1 and 3rd line energy winger.

A guy who is good for ~15g-20a with 14ish mins a game.

Very valuable piece to the team, even if he's overpaid by a couple hundred thousand at the moment.
If he plays like this he isnt even overpaid. He plays like last year yeah he is overpaid. Its probably somewhere inbetween. He is probably a 2.2/2.5 million dollar player.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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I must be tired because I don’t follow your math. How does 200K-1M work. Most waiver exempt players are below 1M.
Well, I never said waiver exempt, just like we might choose to waive Kelly, Chartier Kastelic or MacEwen if we were to acquire a better player, other teams might waive players who arewaiver eligible. I capped it at the max burried contract since there's no guarantee a waived player gets picked up.

Kubalik in costs 2.5

Player he replaces opens ~750k to 1.15m
Additional waived player bring the total roster down by one opens up an additional ~750k to 1.15m, so total of 1.5m to 2.3m is opened up

Net difference is 200k to 1m
 

GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
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Well, I never said waiver exempt, just like we might choose to waive Kelly, Chartier Kastelic or MacEwen if we were to acquire a better player, other teams might waive players who arewaiver eligible. I capped it at the max burried contract since there's no guarantee a waived player gets picked up.

Kubalik in costs 2.5

Player he replaces opens ~750k to 1.15m
Additional waived player bring the total roster down by one opens up an additional ~750k to 1.15m, so total of 1.5m to 2.3m is opened up

Net difference is 200k to 1m
Ah I see.
 

frightenedinmatenum2

Registered User
Sep 30, 2023
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So, a couple things,

Teams don't need 2.5 mil to fit Kubalik, they need about 1.5 plus a willingness to waive a guy he'd be replacing. No team is acquiring Kubalik on top of their current roster, they'd either waive a player or send one back for us to waive.

Teams don't need to carry 23 or 22 roster players, if they are willing to go down to 21 or even 20, they can add 1.5 to 2.3 just by dropping one additional healthy scratch beyond the guy Kubalik replaces. I don't see any teams willing to drop to a 20 man roster to accommodate Kubalik but that only eliminates 5 teams.

So with that in mind, the min needed to accomodate Kubalik is a 22 or more man roster, and 200k to 1 mil in cap space depending on the players you remove from your roster.

You're half right.

Yes, a team would either bury Kubalik or send someone down. Which means they only need to open up about 1.725M for Kubalik or 1.25M for Brannstrom on their roster. Or, if they bury either player it's a bit less than that since they would get back 1.125M.

But that's still opening up 2.5M of cap space. It just means that some teams have a reasonable avenue to create .775k of that 2.5M as part of the acquisition. It's splitting hairs.

With that said, teams aren't going down to 19 or 20 players just to fit Kubalik in. A lot of the teams who could fit him in are already rolling with 20-22 player rosters. Even a team coming down from 23 to 22 just to make additional room for Kubalik would be questionable. He's a solid middle-six scorer, not anything more.

There is a massive opportunity cost to Cap space. Unless you're getting a 2nd or 3rd round pick with Kubalik or Brannstrom and hoping you can flip them for another pick at the deadline, it's not worth it for a team with cap space. They will get better assets with it down the line by using that cap space to bank more cap room that they can leverage at the deadline.

On the topic of Garland:

The reason there is a market for Garland is because the Canucks are able to make cap considerations. For example, one name brought up in Garland rumors was Peeke on Columbus. Moving out almost 3Mx3Y as a sunk cost makes it easier to justify taking 5Mx3Y. It's a completely different situation, and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the situations talked about with Garland involve further retention and are closer to cap in/cap out with an asset maybe going to Vancouver.
 

HSF

Registered User
Sep 3, 2008
26,271
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No way.

Incredible how short people's memories are around here. Joseph was hot garbage last year. He was scratched for disciplinary reasons last year. Get rid of him while you can.
Have you never seen Kubalik play? There is a reason why two rebuilding teams did not want him....

Also what do you mean get rid of him while we can? That's the point we can't get rid of him without attaching an asset
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
55,518
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With that said, teams aren't going down to 19 or 20 players just to fit Kubalik in. A lot of the teams who could fit him in are already rolling with 20-22 player rosters. Even a team coming down from 23 to 22 just to make additional room for Kubalik would be questionable. He's a solid middle-six scorer, not anything more.
There are only 5 teams including us with a 21 man or less roster, nobody is suggesting any team drop below 21 to fit in Kubalik, I was specifically excluding that possibility.

My point was a lot more team can fit in Kubalik and have a 21 man or more player roster than people think, 14 teams are running 23 man rosters, they can potentially waive 3 guys to fit in Kubalik and still end up with a 21 man roster, or two and still have an extra fwd and extra D.

What is questionable about coming down from 23 to 22? How important do you think it is for teams to have three guys sitting in the pressbox every game? Kubalik is dirt cheap and can put pucks in the net, he's not a liability out there either, he's a quality depth scorer that can play in your middle six, having depth is how you insulate yourself from the impact of injuries and make the playoffs.
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,885
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Last year is over and it was a down season for him.

He is fired up, using his speed and very clearly put a ton of time into improving his release and power. How about appreciate a kid making his game better?
How about give Kubalik more than three games, and show why he is twice the point producer, and cheaper?
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
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Have you never seen Kubalik play? There is a reason why two rebuilding teams did not want him....

Also what do you mean get rid of him while we can? That's the point we can't get rid of him without attaching an asset
The better he plays, and the more injuries that happen , look at Dach, etc…he will get moved. Kubalik had to be moved to get DeBrincat, and I see a 200ft player so far who plays the right way.

And yeah, did you see Joseph play last year?
 
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OD99

Registered User
Oct 13, 2012
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How about give Kubalik more than three games, and show why he is twice the point producer, and cheaper?
Am I beating the drum to move Kubalik? No.

I have said from day 1 that I think Greig will do fine in his role and right now that line is shining for us.

Yes, I want Pinto on the team but there is no reason to make any move just yet. Norris is back and looks like the natural goal scorer we all love.

Pinto has zero leverage, there is no reason to do anything. Lots of time before Dec 1.

Plus, as far as a memory, Joseph looked great for us to close the season 2 years ago. I don't think he is a PPG player generally but he has 2 decent linemates this season and is making the most of it. Even without scoring he is a valuable player for us.

The criticism he took in the offseason was over the top and became an echo chamber.

The better he plays, and the more injuries that happen , look at Dach, etc…he will get moved. Kubalik had to be moved to get DeBrincat, and I see a 200ft player so far who plays the right way.
You see him as a more effective 200ft player than MJ?
And yeah, did you see Joseph play last year?
And did you see MJ play 2 seasons ago?
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
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Kubalik was definitely more noticeable . I think he is squeezing it a little tight and has to settle in. He isn't comfortable yet.
He has missed a couple really good chances from Batherson basically whiffing on the one timers. That will change
He was more involved today. I liked the line.

Totally different player than Joseph. Joseph plays higher tempo and is more active and is faster and that energy stands out. Kubalik is better with the puck and thinks the game better, more cerebral. I think he could be a pretty solid player.

At this point I would like to see Pinto come in, push Greig to the wing on Pinto's line with Tarasenko. I think Pinto will replace Greig at 3C. Joseph has been more effective than he was for most of last season. I would rather have a better player on that line. When Pinto comes back I think we can achieve that. No player is going to replace Joseph's speed/energy combo and he does have a place on the team. I would like to see him on an energy line with at least one other push the pace disruptive player, ideally two.
 
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aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
29,154
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Interesting how Norris returning woke both Batherson & Kubalik up & both played better with Norris as their centre. I assume that Pinto could do the same with Greig & Tarasenko.
 

Icelevel

During these difficult times...
Sep 9, 2009
25,488
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Interesting how Norris returning woke both Batherson & Kubalik up & both played better with Norris as their centre. I assume that Pinto could do the same with Greig & Tarasenko.
I think pinto comes in for chartier. Greig might be sticking around now.
 
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