Does this tournament mean anything to Russia?

[Xokkeu]

Do you even know what the Confederations Cup is? It's a trial World Cup, with all of the continental championship winners, the current World Cup Champion and the host nation. So the level is much higher than just picking some random teams you did, as the asian and african teams in soccer actually are decent teams.

I would be interested to see how you'd make an argument of just having U23 players (+3 older) here in hockey and get the level to be massively, hugely improved and how that would stick as a correct statement. I guess this is what happens when the WJC is so overrated. Because it surely would make the level only worse.

The U23 teams would have Conor McDavid, Nathan MacKinnon, Mikko Rantanen, Alex Barkov, Jack Eichel, David Pastrnak, Auston Mathews.

Without question I think the USA and Canadian teams would be much better. The issue for the smaller hockey countries would be depth. Germany would probably be pretty bad after Leon Draistl. The Czechs would have very limited depth after Pastrnak. Both those teams are semi finalists as constructed now.

 

[Xokkeu]

Headline from 2014
UPDATE: USA-Russia Olympics Hockey Game Hits Record Viewership For NBC Sports Network



Headline from 2018
NHL banning players from Winter Olympics drastically affects NBC's hockey ratings



Did Team USA even play Russia in these games? How were the ratings? I'm pretty sure Team USA vs Russia is one of the most important matches in International hockey (in terms of ratings). The others being CAN-USA, CAN-RUS, FIN-SWE (in no particular order). So let's compare Team USA vs RUSSIA in these games to the 2014 games.

They played. Russia won 4-0. Game was live at 7am eastern time, 4am pacific time.

 

[Xokkeu]

When it’s really popular, and you play in a men’s league, the only ice time left over is at like 11 pm or 12 am.

The kids get all the best times.

Not always better.

Yeah I don't even live in a hockey hotbed and my games are always at midnight.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

I would be interested to see how you'd make an argument of just having U23 players (+3 older) here in hockey and get the level to be massively, hugely improved and how that would stick as a correct statement. I guess this is what happens when the WJC is so overrated. Because it surely would make the level only worse.

Are you serious?

Look at the USA Under-23 alone:

Matthews
Eichel
Werenski
Hanifin
Boeser
Tkachuk
Keller
Debrincat
Larkin
Schmaltz
Connor
Jones
Guentzel
Butcher
McAvoy
etc

They are 10x better than this team.

 

[SirKillalot]

Are you serious?

Look at the USA Under-23 alone:

The NHL would never let U23 players alone go. So it won't be an issue. They barely allow players go to WJC if they are in the NHL. Sometimes not. Then you would have to factor that in, and it would be U23 players from AHL (and down) and Europe.

But, Canada and US better, doesn't make the quality of the whole competition better. As 8, 9 or 10 of the other teams would be worse.

 

[Canuck21t]

Olympics usually means the best of the best. It clearly can't be the case without the NHL participating.

Is an Olympic gold Medal in Soccer more important than the World Cup?

This tournament is not as important as a hockey event as when the best participate, but I do care and want Canada to win just like I care for Canada to win gold in other Olympic sports. NHL or not, this will add to the total medal count of our nation. Don't you care for that? I do.

 

[Canuck21t]

If Canada had won the final game in 1994, Canadians would have partied and celebrated that the same way they did in 2002.

Olympic Gold is still Olympic Gold, NHL involvement or no NHL involvement.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Olympic gold is important to a certain extent, but we Canadians know the difference when it's best vs. best and we put a lot more importance in that. I personally care for this tournament and I want Canada to win this gold because it would add to Canada's Olympic team total medal count, but it's ridiculous to think that we'd celebrate the same way without our best players there. Olympic gold with the best players in the world is a higher level, this is a 2nd tier tournament hockey-wise.

 

[Cellee]

Probably the only chance at a gold for a long time so I imagine it means alot.

They won't win though.

 

[Canuck21t]

No. What I'm saying is the amount of athletes doping from each country would surprise you. The matter that they had state sponsored doping and this was uncovered made them obviously much more susceptible to get punshed.

So you're admitting that doping is state sponsored in Russia? Listen, every country has athletes who dope, most of us know that, but the reason Russia is being punished is because of state sponsoring. Cheating individually is one thing, but when the state is behind it, it's much worse and it rightly should be punished. Not saying this proves anything, but the fact that a Russian curler (CURLING really?!?) was caught, that does not help the image at all LOL.

 

[Sportpsych90]

So you're admitting that doping is state sponsored in Russia? Listen, every country has athletes who dope, most of us know that, but the reason Russia is being punished is because of state sponsoring. Cheating individually is one thing, but when the state is behind it, it's much worse and it rightly should be punished. Not saying this proves anything, but the fact that a Russian curler (CURLING really?!?) was caught, that does not help the image at all LOL.

Haha dude I’m not even Russian, I’m Czech/Slovak. I just think it’s pathetic that the media and so many people display russia as some villainous country and all of their athletes are cheaters. A lot of athletes at this level dope regardless of their nationality. Let’s not pretend that all athletes from certain countries are saints and the ones from Russia are cheaters. A hockey player from Slovenia was recently caught doping. This could happen to anyone from any country. Many athletes dope at this level because they know others do and want to be able to compete. Let’s not forget how the whole track and field team was doping from Canada and many from USA in 1988.

 

[Hanji]

So you're admitting that doping is state sponsored in Russia? Listen, every country has athletes who dope, most of us know that, but the reason Russia is being punished is because of state sponsoring. Cheating individually is one thing, but when the state is behind it, it's much worse and it rightly should be punished. Not saying this proves anything, but the fact that a Russian curler (CURLING really?!?) was caught, that does not help the image at all LOL.

What about federations who knowingly allow their athletes to juice by looking the other way?

Obviously such a circumstance grants these federations the benefit of plausible deniability, but such a method of oversight is also where 265 girls can be sexually molested with nobody raising an eyebrow. You can't tell me nobody within the USOC had any inclination this was occurring. Such a scandal can only occur within a federation that espouses a "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" ethos.

So to claim our athletes cheat individually is a little disingenuous. Yea they get the drugs themselves, but the USOC rolls out a red carpet allowing them to cheat, then looks the other way.

 

[Slitty]

A seizable percentage of all Russians who tune into the gold medal game on TV might not even be aware that NHL players are not participating. It is likely to be mentioned in the broadcast, but even then, most of the viewership will not appreciate the significance of no NHL participation nor understand why this is an "asterisked" event. So yes, should Russia win - people will honk their horns, flock to the streets, and celebrate. It's the Olympics: the rarest of times when hockey matters to people who aren't otherwise hockey fans.

 

[Canuck21t]

Haha dude I’m not even Russian, I’m Czech/Slovak. I just think it’s pathetic that the media and so many people display russia as some villainous country and all of their athletes are cheaters. A lot of athletes at this level dope regardless of their nationality. Let’s not pretend that all athletes from certain countries are saints and the ones from Russia are cheaters. A hockey player from Slovenia was recently caught doping. This could happen to anyone from any country. Many athletes dope at this level because they know others do and want to be able to compete. Let’s not forget how the whole track and field team was doping from Canada and many from USA in 1988.

I never said you were Russian, just that you conceded that doping is state sponsored in Russia. Once again, I know every country has cheaters, but if there's significant signs that it's systemic on a national level, then that said country needs to be punished. Ben Johnson was caught in 1988, but the whole track and field team from Canada? I don't remember that.

What about federations who knowingly allow their athletes to juice by looking the other way?

Obviously such a circumstance grants these federations the benefit of plausible deniability, but such a method of oversight is also where 265 girls can be sexually molested with nobody raising an eyebrow. You can't tell me nobody within the USOC had any inclination this was occurring. Such a scandal can only occur within a federation that espouses a "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" ethos.

So to claim our athletes cheat individually is a little disingenuous. Yea they get the drugs themselves, but the USOC rolls out a red carpet allowing them to cheat, then looks the other way.

If federations are guilty, they need to be punished too. I'm not the investigator here, I'm only going by what the IOC have decided based on the findings. Until someone comes out and leaks what the USOC knows, it is hard to do anything about it until more in known.

 

[Canuck21t]

A seizable percentage of all Russians who tune into the gold medal game on TV might not even be aware that NHL players are not participating. It is likely to be mentioned in the broadcast, but even then, most of the viewership will not appreciate the significance of no NHL participation nor understand why this is an "asterisked" event. So yes, should Russia win - people will honk their horns, flock to the streets, and celebrate. It's the Olympics: the rarest of times when hockey matters to people who aren't otherwise hockey fans.

I think the OP is asking the Russian hockey fans who are aware of the situation, more precisely Russians in these forums.

 

[Fantomas]

What about federations who knowingly allow their athletes to juice by looking the other way?

Obviously such a circumstance grants these federations the benefit of plausible deniability, but such a method of oversight is also where 265 girls can be sexually molested with nobody raising an eyebrow. You can't tell me nobody within the USOC had any inclination this was occurring. Such a scandal can only occur within a federation that espouses a "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" ethos.

So to claim our athletes cheat individually is a little disingenuous. Yea they get the drugs themselves, but the USOC rolls out a red carpet allowing them to cheat, then looks the other way.

This is well said.

 

[Jablkon]

What about federations who knowingly allow their athletes to juice by looking the other way?

Obviously such a circumstance grants these federations the benefit of plausible deniability, but such a method of oversight is also where 265 girls can be sexually molested with nobody raising an eyebrow. You can't tell me nobody within the USOC had any inclination this was occurring. Such a scandal can only occur within a federation that espouses a "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" ethos.

So to claim our athletes cheat individually is a little disingenuous. Yea they get the drugs themselves, but the USOC rolls out a red carpet allowing them to cheat, then looks the other way.

And when biathlon athletes speak loudly about that they are punished by russian posters everywhere. Sure they have to be strict towards themselfs but this “hear no evil, see no evil....” was exactly their issue with their russian colleagues. No one really want to deal with shit everytime but there are some red lines. This is not war, its a sport that should still follow some fair play.

 

[jedisports]

Not a Russian but if they win Gold I couldn't imagine this being a wonderful achievement in their eyes.

For one, many don't even feel like they should be participating in these Olympics to begin with. Two, if they win Gold, they will have needed all North American NHL players especially out of the way in order to do so. How is that even something to celebrate? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Zine]

Not a Russian but if they win Gold I couldn't imagine this being a wonderful achievement in their eyes.

For one, many don't even feel like they should be participating in these Olympics to begin with. Two, if they win Gold, they will have needed all North American NHL players especially out of the way in order to do so. How is that even something to celebrate? Doesn't make sense to me.

It makes sense when you consider the majority of the populace doesnt know shit about hockey. If any celebrating is to be done it will be because the population cares about Russia on the biggest international stage, the olympics. However, like poster Slitty said above, most people arent knowledgable enough of the sport to appreciate the significance of non-NHL participation.

 

[Xokkeu]

Honestly the only people who care about NHL players being there (in terms of degenerating their enjoyment) are North American.

 

[BigT2002]

Honestly the only people who care about NHL players being there (in terms of degenerating their enjoyment) are North American.

Are you speaking for every nationality? Because I would love to hear from the Swiss, Swedes and Finns as to not having their elite players representing their country.

 

[Xokkeu]

Are you speaking for every nationality? Because I would love to hear from the Swiss, Swedes and Finns as to not having their elite players representing their country.

Think we already had Swedish and Finnish fans who said they’d go bonkers if they’d won the gold and I’m sure the Germans will lose their minds if they bear OAR

 

[W75]

I think most of us (I mean hockey fans) would've liked to see best on best hockey in the Olympics. Look at the threads when it was announced that NHL didn't participate.

Well now, it is what it is and we're enjoying what we have. It's different. But again, was great to see awesome fight, heart and feelings with team Germany. Every team and its players surely still want to win. Always. No matter how they were chosen.

What comes to original question and Russia as a nation.. as an outsider I'd suppose it'll be a big thing in case they win it?

 

[NyQuil]

Think we already had Swedish and Finnish fans who said they’d go bonkers if they’d won the gold and I’m sure the Germans will lose their minds if they bear OAR

That's not really answering the question.

You honestly think that Finns and Swedes don't care that their most talented players weren't available?

 

[adsfan]

Haha dude I’m not even Russian, I’m Czech/Slovak. I just think it’s pathetic that the media and so many people display russia as some villainous country and all of their athletes are cheaters. A lot of athletes at this level dope regardless of their nationality. Let’s not pretend that all athletes from certain countries are saints and the ones from Russia are cheaters. A hockey player from Slovenia was recently caught doping. This could happen to anyone from any country. Many athletes dope at this level because they know others do and want to be able to compete. Let’s not forget how the whole track and field team was doping from Canada and many from USA in 1988.

Four medals from the 1988 Summer Olympics were stripped. Ben Johnson from Canada in the 100 meters, two Bulgarians and one Hungarian. The last three were all in weightlifting. Nobody from the US lost a medal that year. Repeat, NOBODY! And it was just one Canadian. One Canadian snowboarder lost a gold medal in the Winter Olympics.

The difference is that Russia set up a lab with people to cheat the testing for Sochi. It was systematic, rather than some individuals doing it. Russia lost 13 medals in the 2008 Summer games and 13 more in the 2012 Summer games.

I never forgot, it is just that what you said about the US and Canada in 1988 is not true, otherwise more than one person would have been found.

 

[offkilter]

No. What I'm saying is the amount of athletes doping from each country would surprise you. The matter that they had state sponsored doping and this was uncovered made them obviously much more susceptible to get punshed.

Well considering the Russian women's bobsledder who wore a shirt with "I don't do doping" just got busted failing a drug test I'm pretty sure at this point they ARE that stupid.