Does this tournament mean anything to Russia?

[Sportpsych90]

Four medals from the 1988 Summer Olympics were stripped. Ben Johnson from Canada in the 100 meters, two Bulgarians and one Hungarian. The last three were all in weightlifting. Nobody from the US lost a medal that year. Repeat, NOBODY! And it was just one Canadian. One Canadian snowboarder lost a gold medal in the Winter Olympics.

The difference is that Russia set up a lab with people to cheat the testing for Sochi. It was systematic, rather than some individuals doing it. Russia lost 13 medals in the 2008 Summer games and 13 more in the 2012 Summer games.

I never forgot, it is just that what you said about the US and Canada in 1988 is not true, otherwise more than one person would have been found.

Lol sorry you are oblivious. Just because one person got caught doesn't mean the whole team wasn't doing it. I suggest you watch the documentary 9.79 about the 1998 Olympics. Carl Lewis himself failed multiple drug tests but the USOC somehow "lost" these results. As for the Canadian athletes, the majority of the track and field athletes were being supplied steroids by their team physician Dr. Astaphan and track coach Charlie Francis. Here's an article that touches a bit about it

I never said you were Russian, just that you conceded that doping is state sponsored in Russia. Once again, I know every country has cheaters, but if there's significant signs that it's systemic on a national level, then that said country needs to be punished. Ben Johnson was caught in 1988, but the whole track and field team from Canada? I don't remember that.


If federations are guilty, they need to be punished too. I'm not the investigator here, I'm only going by what the IOC have decided based on the findings. Until someone comes out and leaks what the USOC knows, it is hard to do anything about it until more in known.

Dr. Jamie Astaphan, 60, Dies; Gave Olympian Steroids

 

[W75]

That's not really answering the question.

You honestly think that Finns and Swedes don't care that their most talented players weren't available?

Yeah. And it stinks for us because this was the year when older and new generation had a chance to play together.

Last Olympics was a swan song for Selänne, Timonen etc. This year M. Koivu, Rinne, Komarov may have had a last shot with Aho, Laine, Barkov guys. 2022 comes too late for more experienced chaps.

But again, we may never seen NHLers in the Olympics anymore. That really sucks. Was great as long as it lasted.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Canada’s problem is that they engineered themselves out of the Olympic hockey tournament by having a hockey superstructure built around the profit motive only. The Olympics are of course a special tournament with special value to every athlete. Soccer of course is different because FIFA managed to build a tournament with similar mystique but no such alternative exists in hockey. Why? Because North America has chosen to place a rentseeking enterprise, which values *nothing* more than money, at the top of its hockey world.

Thats in itself not a problem as long as you can say you only care for your Franchisetown Moneymakers winning the Cup or maybe get a buzz if the teams owner makes a good profit.. but then of course you have to accept that you will be in your little bubble and things like the Olympics or international competitions will be beyond you.

Overall, that’s fairly trivial of course but its symbolic for society as a whole. The profit motive is the enemy of all deeper culture and non-monetary values.

 

[adsfan]

Lol sorry you are oblivious. Just because one person got caught doesn't mean the whole team wasn't doing it. I suggest you watch the documentary 9.79 about the 1998 Olympics. Carl Lewis himself failed multiple drug tests but the USOC somehow "lost" these results. As for the Canadian athletes, the majority of the track and field athletes were being supplied steroids by their team physician Dr. Astaphan and track coach Charlie Francis. Here's an article that touches a bit about it

Dr. Jamie Astaphan, 60, Dies; Gave Olympian Steroids

More lies and half truths! Here are parts of 2 articles. The drug tests that your refer to about Carl Lewis found "The levels of the combined stimulants registered in the separate tests were 2 ppm, 4 ppm and 6 ppm."

Abrahamson, Alan (April 23, 2003). "Just a dash of drugs in Lewis, DeLoach". Los Angeles Times.

These are now considered as negative tests as the chemicals found, typically in cold medicines, are allowed up to 10 or 25 ppm. Lewis competed in 4 Summer Olympics, won 10 medals and never had one stripped.

"Carl did nothing wrong. There was never intent. He was never told 'you violated the rules'" said Martin D. Singer, Lewis' lawyer, who also said that Lewis had inadvertently taken the banned stimulants in an over-the-counter herbal remedy.[90] In an interview dating back April 2003 Carl Lewis agreed that he tested positive three times in 1988 but he was let off as that was the normal practice in those times.[91] "The only thing I can say is I think it's unfortunate what Wade Exum is trying to do," said Lewis. "I don't know what people are trying to make out of nothing because everyone was treated the same, so what are we talking about? I don't get it.

"Lewis dismisses drugs claims". BBC News. April 23, 2003. Retrieved June 29, 2015.

Keep rewriting history. Nobody "lost" these results. They were just deemed insignificant. Other athletes got the same benefit of the doubt. This was reviewed several years later and re-affirmed. The BBC is about as neutral as any news source gets.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Lots of people i'm sure will celebrate a gold medal and rightfully so. That said die hard hockey fans will probably not consider it as much of an achievement since it's not a best on best tournament.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

They played. Russia won 4-0. Game was live at 7am eastern time, 4am pacific time.

What time in North America was the Sochi game at?

 

[chauron]

Probably means everything, they dont care about nhl because it’s a foreign rival league, thus just happy that they are not there.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Lol sorry you are oblivious. Just because one person got caught doesn't mean the whole team wasn't doing it. I suggest you watch the documentary 9.79 about the 1998 Olympics. Carl Lewis himself failed multiple drug tests but the USOC somehow "lost" these results. As for the Canadian athletes, the majority of the track and field athletes were being supplied steroids by their team physician Dr. Astaphan and track coach Charlie Francis. Here's an article that touches a bit about it

Dr. Jamie Astaphan, 60, Dies; Gave Olympian Steroids

Astaphan worked with Charlie Francis and the Mazda Track Club, not the Canadian team. Probably less than 10% of the Canadian team were mentioned at the Dubin Inquiry (has Russia had anything like that?).

 

[SotasicA]

Russia already failed at the one tournament that mattered the most - the World Cup. They gave their best with their best roster, and finished 4th.

 

[ThaiTanicDK]

Hockey has failed at creating a national feeling like every other sport.

This is what happens when rich old dudes in America takes a sport and turn it into a push as much money out of it as possible instead of building up a culture before doing the squeeze..

Why do Americans have such issues with international events? I dont get it. I follow a lot of sports, and national teams brings out some of the best sporting events. The world cup in soccer, 6 nations/world championship in rugby, cricket world cup. If only hockey fans could see beyond the NHL clubs and treasure the hard work nations put into young talents before snatching them at around 20 years old leaving the home fans craving and hoping they never get to the Stanley cup playoffs just so we can see them again once or twice a year.

 

[JackSlater]

Russia already failed at the one tournament that mattered the most - the World Cup. They gave their best with their best roster, and finished 4th.

As bad as this tournament is with such a depleted talent pool, it is at least an actual international tournament where teams play under the same constraints, unlike the 2016 World Cup.

 

[SotasicA]

As bad as this tournament is with such a depleted talent pool, it is at least an actual international tournament where teams play under the same constraints, unlike the 2016 World Cup.

Why is "actual international tournament" a thing to aspire to? You can have the worst ever players, and call it an actual genuine international tournament. Doesn't make it better than it is.

Hockey has failed at creating a national feeling like every other sport.

I dislike any "national feeling". Why is that a requirement to care about a tournament? Politics? I'd rather have exciting hockey.

And prestige comes from history. And teams with history. Icons of the sport playing for a team, bonding with other team members throughout a season. Living together, battling together. A team that came together from different backgrounds, but plays to win it for themselves and for the crowds that pay to see them every night all year. The crowds that pay their salaries and pay for their homes and cars and everything.

A two week tourney with random fellas who don't even live in the same city and who just happened to be born inside the same random political borders is not more important.

The club team they represent, they CHOSE to represent. They consciously signed a mutually beneficial deal. Being born in a country is not something you can affect. Seems random. Trivial.

 

[sandysan]

As bad as this tournament is with such a depleted talent pool, it is at least an actual international tournament where teams play under the same constraints, unlike the 2016 World Cup.

the same constraints of icing the best players that are not currently occupied with other pursuits ? Yeah, that's a minor concession.

the world championships are ALSO an " actual international tournament where team play under the same constraints" and I don't know anyone who thinks the world shampionships act as a real ranking function.

the difference is that the world championships have SOME of the best players participating. the olympics ? not so much.

 

[SotasicA]

I would be more proud to represent the logo that paid for my family's home and still takes care of us, than a political entity (especially if that nation is taking part in an IOC sanctioned contest, which I also loathe).

As a hobby I might casually represent my home country in a light-hearted contest, but not when casual hockey fans suddenly ask for your full dedication to the flag. They ain't the ones looking after you. They are not my employer, I own no loyalty to them. But the fans that do follow my real team's games do mean a lot. They are the ones I train for and try and entertain, and they are the ones that pay me for my troubles. If you don't respect them, you don't respect your own achievements. You don't respect the fans' loyalty. You don't respect your own family who are the beneficiaries of these fans' loyalty.

/rant

Anyway. International hockey is kind of lame.

 

[stampedingviking]

Meh, Great Britain won the Gold medal in hockey in 1936, people still remember that it was all Canadians on the team.

Non-hockey fans probably don't know that, all they know is that GB won the gold.

The other day the BBC listed all of GB's gold medal winners, there was no mention that the hockey team was comprised of Canadians, just that GB won.

 

[stampedingviking]

They finally are gifted a gold and it's not even going to count. lol

That's just stupid, just makes you sound like a bitter NA loser.

 

[Clrs]

Russia already failed at the one tournament that mattered the most - the World Cup. They gave their best with their best roster, and finished 4th.

I remember Canada lost 8:1 at their most important tournament Canada Cup with Gretzky in the roster. Were there a lot of suicides that year?

 

[stampedingviking]

And actually it’s fifa trying to kill Olympic soccer in the same way the nhl is (really badly) trying to replace Olympic hockey with the World Cup. Since FIFA doesn’t get any money from the Olympics

No, it's because FIFA wanted a world-wide tournament that professionals could play in. At the time it started, the Olympics was for amateur players only.

Stop trying to make the greedy NHL look better.

 

[chauron]

What a stupid thread, it means everything for russians. Everything. So much that some players have said they wanna leave nhl to come to play in olympics

 

[JackSlater]

Why is "actual international tournament" a thing to aspire to? You can have the worst ever players, and call it an actual genuine international tournament. Doesn't make it better than it is.

I have an issue with a tournament not being an international tournament when it is presented as one and when it is being used in part to replace a very high quality international tournament.

the same constraints of icing the best players that are not currently occupied with other pursuits ? Yeah, that's a minor concession.

the world championships are ALSO an " actual international tournament where team play under the same constraints" and I don't know anyone who thinks the world shampionships act as a real ranking function.

the difference is that the world championships have SOME of the best players participating. the olympics ? not so much.

I'm not a fan of this tournament and I don't put much stock in the IIHF World Championship (more than I do for this edition of the Olympic tournament though, possible) so you're barking up the wrong tree. The constraints in this tournament are obviously greater but they are at least the same across the board. If the NHL had done the World Cup in a reasonable manner it would have been a tournament far superior to this one, but then stupidity got in the way.

 

[stampedingviking]

Of course I don't mean literally no one watches. My point is that compared to the last 4 Olympics, the excitement is almost completely dead. The proof is in the ratings.

In Sochi, I had a bunch of non hockey fans co-workers streaming the Canada games, during work time. This year, no one is even talking about it.

You're simply lying to yourself if you can't see the reality of the impact of Olympic Hockey without NHL players.

Speaks more about the mentality of Canadians, then, if you'll only watch if your team is full of star players and favourites to win.

 

[WHISTLERNATE]

I am Canadian and could not care less about this tournament. To me it is a glorified Spengler cup. Having 1 countries 4th tier players go head to head against another countries 4th tier players is not that interesting to watch. At least the womens side was best on best.

With that said, I am very happy for the Germans. Getting a gold or silver will be huge for their national program.

 

[Philadelphia Ducks]

I like it, the games were a lot more even and fun to watch. Preferred this to watching the NHL olympics, where it was just the same 4-5 countries.

 

[SotasicA]

I have an issue with a tournament not being an international tournament when it is presented as one and when it is being used in part to replace a very high quality international tournament.

Canada winning that tournament (without McDavid) says a lot more about true power in hockey than Germany winning these Winter Games.

 

[sandysan]

I have an issue with a tournament not being an international tournament when it is presented as one and when it is being used in part to replace a very high quality international tournament.



I'm not a fan of this tournament and I don't put much stock in the IIHF World Championship (more than I do for this edition of the Olympic tournament though, possible) so you're barking up the wrong tree. The constraints in this tournament are obviously greater but they are at least the same across the board. If the NHL had done the World Cup in a reasonable manner it would have been a tournament far superior to this one, but then stupidity got in the way.

the world cup was run by a PRIVATE league. That you misinterpreted it as being faux-international is on you, not the NHL.

And its replacing a very high quality tournament because the very same private league isnt a altruist looking to enrich some ( fundamentally corrupt) third party who doesnt give a crap about hockey. if this also bothers you, it is again on you and not the league.