Does this tournament mean anything to Russia?

[shtorm2005]

To conclude, gold medal isn't garanteed for this russian team, they have to fight hard to get it, and if it will happen, it will be well deserved and worthy to celebrate

 

[jj cale]

To conclude, gold medal isn't garanteed for this russian team, they have to fight hard to get it, and if it will happen, it will be well deserved and worthy to celebrate

Yes it will be deserved and yes they will have to fight hard to get it.

 

[Jussi]

It's simply NOT true. For European nations the Olympics hockey gold was pretty important before 1998 as well.

Olympic medal in general. Finnish tv did a documentary series pre-Sochi on all the Finnish Olympic medal winning teams and the captain of the 1988 Calgary team, Timo Blomqvist, still teared up remembering the experience and moment.

 

[Sentinel]

I just want Datsyuk to win Olympic gold. That would put him into a Triple Gold Club and end his incredible career on an Everest-high note.

 

[Xokkeu]

I just want Datsyuk to win Olympic gold. That would put him into a Triple Gold Club and end his incredible career on an Everest-high note.

Wow that thought almost made me want Russia to win.

Admittedly I’m torn between Russia and Canada as my least favorite remaining teams. I don’t think I can take being a hockey fan if I have to listen to Canadian fans if they win gold.

 

[Xokkeu]

This is mostly dancing around the obvious. Soccer was in the Olympics before the World Cup existed, and yet the World Cup rightly became regarded as the premiere event since it had the best players. The Confederations Cup is not taken that seriously, I agree, and that isn't surprising given that again most of the best players aren't there since so few countries compete. It would be like a hockey tournament between just Canada, Sweden, Japan and South Africa. People can recite to themselves that a gold medal is a gold medal and automatically worthy of big celebration all they want, but I find it hard to take them seriously when I see the reaction that Olympic soccer gets. Also worth noting is that if each team was an U23 team with three ringers, as is the case in lowly Olympic soccer, the level of players involved in the tournament would be massively, hugely improved. Perhaps fortunately for this tournament it seems that average fans (in most countries) are unaware of the level of the players in tournament, and so obviously Russians or anyone else will celebrate a win.

Olympic soccer is highly valued in the Americas and Africa. It’s just the Europeans that don’t really care about it.

 

[Xokkeu]

They are russians. Everyone knows that. Also, they aren't first who performs with olympic flag

Kovy is HOF? Datsyuk retired for a reason.

Last time they won didn’t they have an Olympic flag as the confederation of independent states?

 

[Captain Bowie]

In Canada, no really one cares about it. No one is talking about it or watching the games. No one can name 3 people on the Canadian Roster.

In case this hasn't been stated, this is completely false.

 

[JackSlater]

Olympic soccer is highly valued in the Americas and Africa. It’s just the Europeans that don’t really care about it.

Fair point. I still think that the obvious parallel between Olympic soccer and current Olympic hockey should be obvious to people in Europe at least. It's all a bit foolish though as no one is likely to be convinced either way once they have entrenched in their position.

 

[offkilter]

If you think Russians were the only ones “cheating” you’re sorely mistaken. A large portion of athletes at this level take ped’s, they just know when and how to do it not to fail a drug test

So what you are saying is the Russians with all their state sponsored doping are too stupid to know when and how to avoid testing positive? I kind of believe that considering the curler of all people who knew there would be extra scrutiny on anyone representing the OAR team got busted.

 

[Xokkeu]

Fair point. I still think that the obvious parallel between Olympic soccer and current Olympic hockey should be obvious to people in Europe at least. It's all a bit foolish though as no one is likely to be convinced either way once they have entrenched in their position.

And actually it’s fifa trying to kill Olympic soccer in the same way the nhl is (really badly) trying to replace Olympic hockey with the World Cup. Since FIFA doesn’t get any money from the Olympics

 

[Gereth]

I can't speak for Russians, but both fans and regular people in Czech Republic care about Olympics. Even without NHL players involved. We also tend to care a lot about IIHF World Championships, even though it doesn't involve NHL players in playoffs. The latest World Cup was accepted with mixed feelings, but if you would give it more time and make it regularly without gimmick teams, we would care too. I would value gold medal with NHL players more and I'm sure this year's gold wouldn't be remembered as much as Nagano '98, but it would still be celebrated A LOT.

I guess the main objective of OP was to tell us, that this tournament is meaningless. I understand that it could be viewed this way if you are Canadian or American, but these are not the only hockey countries in the world. We also don't have NHL here and due to timezones it's difficult to watch every game and stay buzzed about it as much as you guys over the pond. I think it's pretty understandable that values are not the same.

 

[albator71]

Anyway, it’s been a fun tournament - but I’m someone who likes the Spengler and other international tourneys.

I'm the same. I like to watch to watch European hockey, the different domestic leagues, tournaments. I just love the game of hockey no matter where its played. Heck I even enjoyed watching Division I group A & B.

 

[albator71]

In case this hasn't been stated, this is completely false.

I concur. I'm Canadian and i have watched every game so far. its been great hockey!

 

[BMann]

Meh, Great Britain won the Gold medal in hockey in 1936, people still remember that it was all Canadians on the team.

Only two of the British players were actually born and raised in Canada. Two including Archibald Stinchcombe played hockey in London with Streatham and the Wembley Canadians and had all their hockey training here and in Germany.

As for Olympic football it is now seen as a vital development tool for many teams and it is highly respected in South America. Messi was prepared to fight the Barcelona hierarchy to play in Beijing. Prior to the World Cup the 1920 & 1924 tournaments can be seen as World Cups in their own right when the Uruguayans shocked the European teams with their flair, tactics and fitness.

A gold medal is a gold medal. There are plenty of disciplines where the favourite, favourites or best competitor has not been able to compete due to injury or illness. Does that make the winners of those competitions feel their achievements worth any less ? No.

Some Canadians are very defensive about hockey. It's our game. No. It was created in Scotland. And always trying to downplay the achievements of players from the former Soviet Union and Russia. There is little mention of legends like Kharlamov and others when it comes to discussions of the best players of all time. One only has to look at how Malkin gets treated in comparison to Crosby to see there is a degree of bias ever present.

 

[FinPanda]

I am not Russian but I would have taken the gold. I don't value it as much as if there was all the best players. But it's still gold and we don't have an olympic gold in hockey. And Finns have been very disappointing in these olympics so it would have been great. Finland would have gone crazy if we had won the gold. We care about every international tournament, winning gold in WHC is huge for us so olympics would have been similar if not bigger. Most of us care about team Finland and it doesn't matter who the players are. We support our team to win gold every day, every year, every hour, always. It's team Finland.

I know Canadians don't care about this tournament, but almost every other country does. I think in Russia it would be just amazing considering everything that has happened before the Olympics.

 

[SirKillalot]

The Confederations Cup is not taken that seriously, I agree, and that isn't surprising given that again most of the best players aren't there since so few countries compete. It would be like a hockey tournament between just Canada, Sweden, Japan and South Africa. People can recite to themselves that a gold medal is a gold medal and automatically worthy of big celebration all they want, but I find it hard to take them seriously when I see the reaction that Olympic soccer gets. Also worth noting is that if each team was an U23 team with three ringers, as is the case in lowly Olympic soccer, the level of players involved in the tournament would be massively, hugely improved.

Do you even know what the Confederations Cup is? It's a trial World Cup, with all of the continental championship winners, the current World Cup Champion and the host nation. So the level is much higher than just picking some random teams you did, as the asian and african teams in soccer actually are decent teams.

I would be interested to see how you'd make an argument of just having U23 players (+3 older) here in hockey and get the level to be massively, hugely improved and how that would stick as a correct statement. I guess this is what happens when the WJC is so overrated. Because it surely would make the level only worse.

 

[Sportpsych90]

So what you are saying is the Russians with all their state sponsored doping are too stupid to know when and how to avoid testing positive? I kind of believe that considering the curler of all people who knew there would be extra scrutiny on anyone representing the OAR team got busted.

No. What I'm saying is the amount of athletes doping from each country would surprise you. The matter that they had state sponsored doping and this was uncovered made them obviously much more susceptible to get punshed.

 

[Riddum]

In case this hasn't been stated, this is completely false.

Let's see the ratings vs the Sochi ratings.

 

[jj cale]

Wow that thought almost made me want Russia to win.

Admittedly I’m torn between Russia and Canada as my least favorite remaining teams. I don’t think I can take being a hockey fan if I have to listen to Canadian fans if they win gold.

lol

Trust me the feeling is mutual. There are few things more insufferable then some American fans when they win anything.

 

[NyQuil]

Only two of the British players were actually born and raised in Canada. Two including Archibald Stinchcombe played hockey in London with Streatham and the Wembley Canadians and had all their hockey training here and in Germany.

9 of 13 were raised in Canada but whatever.

As for Olympic football it is now seen as a vital development tool for many teams and it is highly respected in South America. Messi was prepared to fight the Barcelona hierarchy to play in Beijing. Prior to the World Cup the 1920 & 1924 tournaments can be seen as World Cups in their own right when the Uruguayans shocked the European teams with their flair, tactics and fitness.

That’s how I look at this tournament this year.

A developmental tool particularly for the smaller hockey nations.

I notice that they aren’t regarded as World Cups in their own right anymore - which was also the point I was making.

A gold medal is a gold medal. There are plenty of disciplines where the favourite, favourites or best competitor has not been able to compete due to injury or illness. Does that make the winners of those competitions feel their achievements worth any less ? No.

Good for them.

Very few disciplines where the top 100+ or so participants have injury or illness.

Some Canadians are very defensive about hockey. It's our game. No. It was created in Scotland. And always trying to downplay the achievements of players from the former Soviet Union and Russia. There is little mention of legends like Kharlamov and others when it comes to discussions of the best players of all time. One only has to look at how Malkin gets treated in comparison to Crosby to see there is a degree of bias ever present.

What’s funny is that Malkin isn’t even there.

Which is my entire point.

Everyone loses out - not just the North Americans - due to this silliness.

 

[JackSlater]

And actually it’s fifa trying to kill Olympic soccer in the same way the nhl is (really badly) trying to replace Olympic hockey with the World Cup. Since FIFA doesn’t get any money from the Olympics

I am aware that it is Fifa's doing. While Fifa is certainly far worse than the NHL (corruption etc.) it isn't as stupid in terms of tournament organization. Hard to imagine another organizing body making something as stupid as the 2016 World Cup.

Do you even know what the Confederations Cup is? It's a trial World Cup, with all of the continental championship winners, the current World Cup Champion and the host nation. So the level is much higher than just picking some random teams you did, as the asian and african teams in soccer actually are decent teams.

I'm aware of what it is, as my post indicates. As I said it isn't the same thing given that most of the best teams aren't there. Pretend all you like that your point was valid but picking one winning team from some continents plus the recent World Cup winner is a far cry from a tournament including most of the best teams on Earth.

I would be interested to see how you'd make an argument of just having U23 players (+3 older) here in hockey and get the level to be massively, hugely improved and how that would stick as a correct statement. I guess this is what happens when the WJC is so overrated. Because it surely would make the level only worse.

I have to assume that you are being willfully ignorant here, because it's incredibly obvious that an U23 team with three ringers would be far better than what is in these Olympics for most teams. Here's a quick Canadian team that is better than the Canadian Olympic team by a massive degree:

Konecny Crosby MacKinnon
Point McDavid Barzal
Mantha Monahan Marner
Domi Horvat Beauvillier
Drouin

Rielly Doughty
Morrissey Nurse
Theodore Chychrun
Chabot

Holtby
Murray

You can do the same thing for other countries with USA being an even more stark example and other countries being lesser examples. The level of this tournament is low enough that it isn't difficult.

None of the above is particularly important though, just a response to the continued mental gymnastics required to hold two contradictory positions. 1. Olympic gold is Olympic gold, it always matters! 2. Olympic gold in soccer doesn't matter. They are positions that simply can't exist together, as pointed out by the poster I first quoted in the thread. Again, I know that people can and will enjoy the tournament and celebrate the win. That's to be expected.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Why would it mean anything to Russia, they aren't playing in this tournament or earning any medals.

 

[SirKillalot]

I have to assume that you are being willfully ignorant here, because it's incredibly obvious that an U23 team with three ringers would be far better than what is in these Olympics for most teams. Here's a quick Canadian team that is better than the Canadian Olympic team by a massive degree:

Do it for all the teams, not just Canada, As you said, the level of tournament would be better. I'm pretty sure it won't. Yes, Canada will be better. US too. Any other country? Possibly Sweden. Russia? No. Finland? No. Czech Republic? Nope. Switzerland, Germany, Slovakia, Slovenia, Norway, South Korea? I don't think so.

Either way, the NHL would for sure never release just U23 players + 3 additions.

 

[Bonin21]

Risk Canada doesn't win: "No one cares about it".