Does Marner get Boo’d?

[notbias]

I don’t want to talk taxes with you as both you and I have really no real understanding of tax differences from country to country.

No need to be smug - I would rather not Have a convo with someone who has a very limited knowledge on the subject they feel they are an authority on. You have no clue what you’re talking about regarding tax on pro athletes.

Very easy to prove you wrong I would just rather not read into taxes, I do enough of my own.

GMs seem to disagree with you.

Rantanen had a better playoff resume when he signed that contract than Marner ever has. He’s always been better than Marner - some of us watch more teams than the leafs.

As a passenger to MacKinnon, I agree.

Are we comparing Marner’s rfa deal to Kuch’s ufa contract? In that case i would expect Kucherov to be taking home a lot more than a mil more than Marner.

We are comparing dollar amounts of contracts, I'm not arguing Marner's contract is good.

Marner is overpaid, Kucherov is underpaid, Florida and other no-tax states have advantages.

 

[francis246]

This needs to be true. Or fans will stop tuning in IMO.

Pretty sad when fans have higher standards than management.

Fans on HF boards will but fans in real life will continue to go to alll the games. We sucked for 10 years and fans didn’t stop showing up, you think Mitch Marner is gonna stop people from going to SBA? That’s delusion lol.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Doesn’t Marner lead the league in endorsement contracts? That should help offset tax advantages American teams have. Then again, the other Canadian teams didn’t have to pay their stars a premium to offset the tax differential.

 

[ACC1224]

90 something points and another playoff no show, that’s not even worth 10m.

Your opinion and reality aren’t aligned.
We’ll find out at some point how he’s valued, whether he stays or leaves. It seems naive to think that someone won’t pay him.
The froth here isn’t reality, he’s viewed pretty highly around the league.

 

[Confucius]

Ferris is no fool. He can argue Marner greater than Nylander and Leafs will eventually fold because they are afraid to let him walk for nothing. And we will continue to tee off and hit the cottage in early May.

We just counter with, we gave William a bonus because we underpaid on his previous deal. If Mitch outperforms 11 million, we will look after him on the next deal. That’s just how we operate.

 

[ACC1224]

Its surprising how very little interest there is in Marner on the trade market, with very little chatter even just rumours of teams looking to acquire his service that would give GM BT even a reason to approach Marner on issue.

It appears what might be the asking price in trade or the future Marner contract, combined with his continued poor playoff performance has drawn very little interest around the NHL World.

Perhaps teams are willing to wait until he hits the free agent market next summer before considering him for their teams.

 

[Arzak]

We just counter with, we gave William a bonus because we underpaid on his previous deal. If Mitch outperforms 11 million, we will look after him on the next deal. That’s just how we operate.

This.

$10.9M and let's see if can finally outperform a contract.

 

[Arzak]

Its surprising how very little interest there is in Marner on the trade market, with very little chatter even just rumours of teams looking to acquire his service that would give GM BT even a reason to approach Marner on issue.

It appears what might be the asking price in trade or the future Marner contract, combined with his continued poor playoff performance has drawn very little interest around the NHL World.

Perhaps teams are willing to wait until he hits the free agent market next summer before considering him for their teams.

It really shouldn't be. We are 3rd in our division regular season wise and subpar in playoffs. Anyone with SC aspiration won't touch him. Overpaid RFA un-suitable for playoffs on Top 10 salary.

No one is clearing 11M+ to get Mitch in a hopes of winning SC. Teams in rebuild would be stupid to waste pick if they can just overpay him next year.

real shocker ! Not even Utah thinks it's a smart gamble! F*cker are yet to play their first game as a franchise and they are already ahead of the Leafs

 

[francis246]

It really shouldn't be. We are 3rd in our division regular season wise and subpar in playoffs. Anyone with SC aspiration won't touch him. Overpaid RFA un-suitable for playoffs on Top 10 salary.

No one is clearing 11M+ to get Mitch in a hopes of winning SC. Teams in rebuild would be stupid to waste pick if they can just overpay him next year.

real shocker ! Not even Utah thinks it's a smart gamble! F*cker are yet to play their first game as a franchise and they are already ahead of the Leafs

Utah f***ing sucks. Sergachev who literally broke his leg isn’t going to make that team a playoff team. They have no scoring, and not a strong d core. You guys gawk off so many other teams that honestly blow just for shits. go be a fan of that team then. Utah will not even sniff the playoffs this year.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Your opinion and reality aren’t aligned.
We’ll find out at some point how he’s valued, whether he stays or leaves. It seems naive to think that someone won’t pay him.
The froth here isn’t reality, he’s viewed pretty highly around the league.

Its been reported that when agents tried using Marner's contract as a comparable in negotiations, that NHL gm's were having none of it. The contract is frowned upon league wide. Doesn't sound like he's viewed so highly around the league, at least not as high as his contract.

 

[ACC1224]

Its been reported that when agents tried using Marner's contract as a comparable in negotiations, that NHL gm's were having none of it. The contract is frowned upon league wide. Doesn't sound like he's viewed so highly around the league, at least not as high as his contract.

Not sure how is contract is viewed, always seemed like an overpay to me.
I was referring to how the player is viewed, someone will pay him.
No matter what you think of him, he’s still a top 5 RW league wide.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Not sure how is contract is viewed, always seemed like an overpay to me.
I was referring to how the player is viewed, someone will pay him.
No matter what you think of him, he’s still a top 5 RW league wide.

I actually do see him as a top 5ish rw as well. But there is a pretty big gap from the top with Kucherov and Pastrnak. His cap hit % should come in below theirs. His playoff performances will hurt his ufa stock. I can't see any contenders giving up his current cap % or even dollar amount. Setting up Matthews and Tavares his whole career he's been in an ideal position to succeed. It won't be easy to find such a fit with other teams where most centers are pass first like Marner. Chicago would have been a fit on ice, but they don't want to create a Tavares 2.0 situation with regards to Bedard's rfa contract.

 

[Confucius]

I actually do see him as a top 5ish rw as well. But there is a pretty big gap from the top with Kucherov and Pastrnak. His cap hit % should come in below theirs. His playoff performances will hurt his ufa stock. I can't see any contenders giving up his current cap % or even dollar amount. Setting up Matthews and Tavares his whole career he's been in an ideal position to succeed. It won't be easy to find such a fit with other teams where most centers are pass first like Marner. Chicago would have been a fit on ice, but they don't want to create a Tavares 2.0 situation with regards to Bedard's rfa contract.

He isn’t worth more than Rantanen, maybe we get to see what he gets before Marner.

 

[Mess]

I actually do see him as a top 5ish rw as well. But there is a pretty big gap from the top with Kucherov and Pastrnak. His cap hit % should come in below theirs. His playoff performances will hurt his ufa stock. I can't see any contenders giving up his current cap % or even dollar amount. Setting up Matthews and Tavares his whole career he's been in an ideal position to succeed. It won't be easy to find such a fit with other teams where most centers are pass first like Marner. Chicago would have been a fit on ice, but they don't want to create a Tavares 2.0 situation with regards to Bedard's rfa contract.

The Chicago Blackhawks are believed to be ready to make a major splash soon, and not only has Mitch Marner's name come up, but John Tavares' name as well.​

This summer, we saw the Nashville Predators take no prisoners, dominating day 1 of free agency, signing Steven Stamkos, Jonathan Marchessault and Brady Skjei to big money, multi-year deals. Next summer, according to Mark Lazerus of The Athletic, it could he Chicago's turn to dominate the UFA market.

The Blackhawks have already reeled in a former Maple Leaf, signing Tyler Bertuzzi to a 4-year deal on July 1st, and Lazerus believes that if both Tavares and Marner hit the free agent market in 2025, the Hawks could target both of them, which may be an exciting prospect for Bertuzzi, who would likely fully endorse the reunion.​

Blackhawks believed to be after two Maple Leafs stars, including Marner

The Chicago Blackhawks are believed to be ready to make a major splash soon, and not only has Mitch Marner's name come up, but John Tavares' name as well.

www.mapleleafsdaily.com

​

 

[Sypher04]

Yes they do. All the time actually.

Look at Rantanen in COL who signed after Marner. Marner needed to be at 10.9 based on cap projections.

Never hear about projected cap when guys like Kucherov or other comparable stars sign. Only in Toronto.

Every single one of those contracts included cap projection. The fact we grossly overpaid Marner doesn’t change that all contracts with term consider cap growth. Every single one.

 

[Funk21]

Your opinion and reality aren’t aligned.
We’ll find out at some point how he’s valued, whether he stays or leaves. It seems naive to think that someone won’t pay him.
The froth here isn’t reality, he’s viewed pretty highly around the league.

I think most GMs know what he is a guy who can play during the regular season but then disappears in the playoffs.

I think he makes less than Rantanen on his next deal unless a team like the ducks will overpay just because they’ll have so much cap space.

If he doesn’t take 11.5 I walk away from him hometown kid or not. For the 11.5 or more he will ask for you can sign two player that will make a difference in your lineup.

 

[Notsince67]

No I have had a few years of watching him from bench both with and without puck and his patterns of playing game have not changed since he was 5 .. I prefer to watch C and Ds without da puck .. but older I get da less of watching guys without puck I do .. generally I take one of my buddies to games so more time eating and drinking occurs

He ain't watching you anymore. That for sure. You call him Mr Marner when you see him now or does he not slum it with the riff raff that pretended to be all that yet he exceeded in net worth when he started shaving the peace fuzz off his face?

 

[Hellcat]

90 something points and another playoff no show, that’s not even worth 10m.

Not worth it in what sense? The NHL has determined that a players worth is relative to HHR. The discussion of worth, is a dollars and cents discussion. Any business look's to make their margins on revenue, MLSE is no different, entertainers are no different. Mitch , AM, Rielly, etc. are all franchisee's of MLSE Inc.. The players look at the revenues of the Leafs and ask how much am I worth to their bottom line? I have a skill that brings in the $$$ for MLSE so I should be compensated accordingly.

The Leafs in 2022-23 brought in $281 mil in revenue, Mitch made $10.9 mil or 3.88% of the Leafs over all revenue. Over the same period Bolts brought in $196mil, Kucherov made $9.5mil or 4.85% of the Bolts revenue. So when you say Marner is not worth his 10.9 mil, relative to the % of the bottom line he is worth $10.9 mil. "Worth" is a financial metric that you can actually measure. The way you used it is a loose term that in a business sense does not track. Is he worth it, from a % of revenue yes he is worth it.

You can argue that where a player contract is only for the regular season and Mitch has performed above 99.9% of his peers, has he performed to his contract, yep 100%. Players dont get paid for the playoffs, they are compensated from a playoff bonus pool based on how far the team goes. generally speaking most fans on this forum are complaining about Marner's playoff performance, using his contract as a cudgel, linking the two together, when in reality there is no link between a players contract and playoffs. In reality his playoff performance has not been poor, a PPG player over the last 3 playoffs, it has however not been elite and I think fans are looking for elite performance, similar to the regular season standards he set.

Ranked: Which NHL Team Takes Home the Most Revenue?

The Oilers are the second-highest earning team in the NHL and the Panthers are 26th. We show the top teams in the NHL by revenue in 2023.

www.visualcapitalist.com

PuckPedia - NHL Salary Cap, Player Contracts and Salary Cap Analysis | Puckpedia

Explore PuckPedia for the latest in NHL salary cap information, player contracts, team cap hits, transaction news, and injury news. The Ultimate Source for Hockey Fans and Professionals.

puckpedia.com

How Much Do Players Get Paid in the Playoffs? - The Hockey Writers The Business of Hockey Latest News, Analysis & More

Do players get paid in the playoffs? The NHL and NHLPA agree to set aside a bonus pool to be distributed based on how far they advance.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[Racer88]

In what sense? Any business look's to make their margins on revenue, MLSE is no different, entertainers are no different. Mitch , AM, Rielly, etc. are all franchisee's of MLSE Inc.. The players look at the revenues of the Leafs and ask how much am I worth to their bottom line? I have a skill that brings in the $$$ for MLSE.

The Leafs in 2022-23 brought in $281 mil in revenue, Mitch made $10.9 mil or 3.88% of the Leafs over all revenue. Over the same period Bolts brought in $196mil, Kucherov made $9.5mil or 4.85% of the Bolts revenue. So when you say Marner is not worth his 10.9 mil, "worth" is a loose term that in a business sense does not track. Is he worth it, from a % of revenue yes he is worth it.

Ranked: Which NHL Team Takes Home the Most Revenue?

The Oilers are the second-highest earning team in the NHL and the Panthers are 26th. We show the top teams in the NHL by revenue in 2023.

www.visualcapitalist.com

PuckPedia - NHL Salary Cap, Player Contracts and Salary Cap Analysis | Puckpedia

Explore PuckPedia for the latest in NHL salary cap information, player contracts, team cap hits, transaction news, and injury news. The Ultimate Source for Hockey Fans and Professionals.

puckpedia.com

He is certainly worth it from a business stand point but from a team winning rounds in the playoffs he is not even close to worth it.
Most fans care about the latter.

 

[ACC1224]

I think most GMs know what he is a guy who can play during the regular season but then disappears in the playoffs.

I think he makes less than Rantanen on his next deal unless a team like the ducks will overpay just because they’ll have so much cap space.

If he doesn’t take 11.5 I walk away from him hometown kid or not. For the 11.5 or more he will ask for you can sign two player that will make a difference in your lineup.

Teams may look at the Leafs as a flawed Team, they understand it isn’t down to just one player. They look at things logically not irrationally as some fans do.

11.5 would be a raise, that’s what I said.
I don’t believe he’s worth that but the floor was set with Nylander.

 

[Hellcat]

He is certainly worth it from a business stand point but from a team winning rounds in the playoffs he is not even close to worth it.
Most fans care about the latter.

Which is IMO a fair observation. Granted it is a team sport, if one player is not worth it, all are not worth it.

 

[Hellcat]

Teams may look at the Leafs as a flawed Team, they understand it isn’t down to just one player. They look at things logically not irrationally as some fans do.

11.5 would be a raise, that’s what I said.
I don’t believe he’s worth that but the floor was set with Nylander.

Right and the NHLPA, player agents and teams look at comparable. Take the fan emotion out of it, take the illogical blind hate out of the calculus and look at just numbers, Mitch has performed at a higher rate, for his career, than Willie in less GP. If Will sets the floor, Mitch will ask for and get a higher AAV. It is a business calculation, not a fan opinion calculation.

William Nylander vs. Mitch Marner: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com

Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of William Nylander and Mitch Marner including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.com

stathead.com

 

[Gilmour1996]

​

The Chicago Blackhawks are believed to be ready to make a major splash soon, and not only has Mitch Marner's name come up, but John Tavares' name as well.​

This summer, we saw the Nashville Predators take no prisoners, dominating day 1 of free agency, signing Steven Stamkos, Jonathan Marchessault and Brady Skjei to big money, multi-year deals. Next summer, according to Mark Lazerus of The Athletic, it could he Chicago's turn to dominate the UFA market.

The Blackhawks have already reeled in a former Maple Leaf, signing Tyler Bertuzzi to a 4-year deal on July 1st, and Lazerus believes that if both Tavares and Marner hit the free agent market in 2025, the Hawks could target both of them, which may be an exciting prospect for Bertuzzi, who would likely fully endorse the reunion.​

View attachment 899719

View attachment 899720

Blackhawks believed to be after two Maple Leafs stars, including Marner

The Chicago Blackhawks are believed to be ready to make a major splash soon, and not only has Mitch Marner's name come up, but John Tavares' name as well.

www.mapleleafsdaily.com

​

If Chicago is looking for a couple choirboys to help mend their recently checkered past, Marner and Tavares will fit right in.

 

[Nineteen67]

If Chicago is looking for a couple choirboys to help mend their recently checkered past, Marner and Tavares will fit right in.

They can have both with max retention for Bedard.

 

[Confucius]

Every single one of those contracts included cap projection. The fact we grossly overpaid Marner doesn’t change that all contracts with term consider cap growth. Every single one.

One of the reasons the guy that was responsible for handing out those deals is no longer here