Do you want Ovechkin to break Gretzky's goal record?

[wetcoast]

If you extrapolate his play in a career that was basically over in his mid 20s out to the length of players who played until 40ish.. then absolutely.

The thing about Orr is that his career was cut short by knee injuries if they had the medical technology then as they do now Orr would have done well in the late 70s in a weakened NHL and even a 21 team after the WHA was absorbed by the NHL.

Mario score 50 goals in 96-97 with 6 games missed the leader had 52 and another player had 51and oh BTW led the league with 122 points, Selanne aged 26 was 2nd with 109 points.

Ovechkin's age 31 season is probably not even good enough for the top 200 31 aged old seasons (which gives me an idea about a topic for the HOH section ranking the best seasons by a player aged 18, 19, 20, 21 ect.....)

then Mario retires and comes back to play at age 35 and has the line of 43-35-41-76 which was good for 29th in league scoring and his 35 goals were top 20 that season...in 43 games.

now does he score close to 70 if he plays the whole season heck no but still come-on I watched that game against the Habs (and I'm not a Habs fan and also one of Mario's biggest critics around here) and he scores a hat trick he had so much talent even if his physical skills weren't there anymore.

While I have Ovi as the best goal scorer of all time i have plenty of time for arguments that Mario is the equal of Ovi in that regard.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The thing about Orr is that his career was cut short by knee injuries if they had the medical technology then as they do now Orr would have done well in the late 70s in a weakened NHL and even a 21 team after the WHA was absorbed by the NHL.

Mario score 50 goals in 96-97 with 6 games missed the leader had 52 and another player had 51and oh BTW led the league with 122 points, Selanne aged 26 was 2nd with 109 points.

Ovechkin's age 31 season is probably not even good enough for the top 200 31 aged old seasons (which gives me an idea about a topic for the HOH section ranking the best seasons by a player aged 18, 19, 20, 21 ect.....)

then Mario retires and comes back to play at age 35 and has the line of 43-35-41-76 which was good for 29th in league scoring and his 35 goals were top 20 that season...in 43 games.

now does he score close to 70 if he plays the whole season heck no but still come-on I watched that game against the Habs (and I'm not a Habs fan and also one of Mario's biggest critics around here) and he scores a hat trick he had so much talent even if his physical skills weren't there anymore.

While I have Ovi as the best goal scorer of all time i have plenty of time for arguments that Mario is the equal of Ovi in that regard.

We can speculate about Orr but it is just speculation.

I’m fully aware of the part seasons Lemieux put up after coming back, but the reality is he did not play that many games after his early 30s and it is wholly misleading to compare players with sub 1000 games to those who played hundreds of games past the age of 30 or so on a per game basis. It is hugely biased and extrapolating things that would simply not happen.

I’d take Lemieux 10 times out of 10 if I was choosing between him and Ovechkin but the idea that Lemieux aged so well is a bit overblown. He did play very well sporadically in small samples but Ovi is a big time outlier as a goal scorer past his early 30s up until now.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Come on.. look at the guy's history. No I don't want this scumbag holding any records.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Voted yes because I believe he won't be considered the best goal scorer ever if he doesn't. Taking into account scoring eras and all the missed time to lock outs and COVID I think he's already proved it. Passing Gretzky would remove any doubt.

 

[wetcoast]

Ovechkin has more adjusted points than Lemieux, and waaaaaay more adjusted goals than Lemieux does.

Ovi has exactly 149 more adjusted points than Mario in 359 more games...there is zero debate about the difference in these 2 guys here.

As well even in adjusted goals Ovi has 322 more than Mario in those same 359 games but Mario was also the best player maker (along with Gretzky and then better than him) during his career as well.

who knows how some of the all time great would have done had they been soooo focused on goal scoring and not overall play past their prime?

In terms of total career value, Lemieux is not particularly high up the list. Had he not been a quitter, he would rank much higher.

We already addressed this poor taste remark.

 

[Sol]

Gretzky played in an easy league

 

[wetcoast]

Gretzky played in an easy league

Wow so much insight here, it's going to take me a while to digest this.

 

[Old Gregg]

Gretzky played in an easy league

So easy that everyone from the 80's scored over 800 career goals

 

[TheStatican]

So easy that everyone from the 80's scored over 800 career goals

C'mon, lets not act like scoring wasn't higher in the 80's. The biggest reason why 80's players didn't compile high career totals is simply because they had horrible longevity;

1980's Star Players and their poor longevity

For some reason the scoring forwards of the 1980's had the worst longevity of any generation going back to expansion. It wasn't just that they retired earlier but that their peak or prime also ended much sooner. Here's how star players from generations both before and after the 80's compare...

forums.hfboards.com

Some of that is on the players and some of it isn't. A lot of treatments for various medical ailments simply just wasn't up to par compared to today's standards.

 

[Miro4Norris]

If he was a decent human being, then yes. But answer is no. I'm rooting for Bedard to do it, fine with Matthews.

 

[Beukeboom]

I used to think it wasn't possible. Then I felt fine with him breaking the record despite being a Gretzky fan myself. But there is something about the way he chases the record that irks me. I've always struggled believing Ovie cares about the team more than himself and his goals. Look at him chasing empty netters last season and now. He floats around the red line and doesn't seem to care if the other teams score. So I prefer if Gretzky keeps the record for now.

 

[LuGBuG]

I was always die hard Sid fan so through my teenage years hated Ovie. Now being older I don’t really mind him but would prefer if he still didn’t break it I guess. I chose No but not really “Screw Him”.

 

[psycat]

Gretzky played in an easy league

It's the opposite, todays players are soft and pampered and view eachother as colleagues moreso than rivals.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

C'mon, lets not act like scoring wasn't higher in the 80's. The biggest reason why 80's players didn't compile high career totals is simply because they had horrible longevity;

1980's Star Players and their poor longevity

For some reason the scoring forwards of the 1980's had the worst longevity of any generation going back to expansion. It wasn't just that they retired earlier but that their peak or prime also ended much sooner. Here's how star players from generations both before and after the 80's compare...

forums.hfboards.com

Some of that is on the players and some of it isn't. A lot of treatments for various medical ailments simply just wasn't up to par compared to today's standards.

They had poor longevity because the talent level was quite low aside from a select few. Thus as the league started adding players from other countries and a new generation came in it pushed many of the 80s stars out aside from the truly great ones.

 

[daver]

They had poor longevity because the talent level was quite low aside from a select few. Thus as the league started adding players from other countries and a new generation came in it pushed many of the 80s stars out aside from the truly great ones.

If the talent level was so low, why didn't Mario do better in the first part of his career?

 

[acor]

I don't care.

Although I'm leaning towards no, not because "screw him", but because it will be ammo for those who overrate him quite a bit...

 

[Hanji]

If the talent level was so low, why didn't Mario do better in the first part of his career?

Because Mario is an outlier. Outliers exist for all situations.

The fact remains - the NHL's global talent pool was decidedly smaller in the 80s
1. The NHL did not have access to all global talent.
2. The game has grown to mammoth levels in the US since then.
3. Sweden and Finland's development programs were a level below what they are today.

Does Ovechkin score at Gretzky's pace if he played in the 80s? No idea,
But it's undeniable that Gretzky benefits from a skewed playing field insofar he faced lesser top-to-bottom talent in comparison to Oveckhin.

 

[lawrence]

Because Mario is an outlier. Outliers exist for all situations.

The fact remains - the NHL's global talent pool was decidedly smaller in the 80s
1. The NHL did not have access to all global talent.
2. The game has grown to mammoth levels in the US since then.
3. Sweden and Finland's development programs were a level below what they are today.

Does Ovechkin score at Gretzky's pace if he played in the 80s? No idea,
But it's undeniable that Gretzky benefits from a skewed playing field insofar he faced lesser top-to-bottom talent in comparison to Oveckhin.

He probably would have scored more in the 80s era since the game was more goal scoring oriented and goalie padding were smaller.

 

[Video Nasty]

He probably would have scored more in the 80s era since the game was more goal scoring oriented and goalie padding were smaller.

Or he might be lost to history because we have no idea what an Ovechkin born in 1960 rather than 1985 would look like.

 

[daver]

Because Mario is an outlier. Outliers exist for all situations.

The fact remains - the NHL's global talent pool was decidedly smaller in the 80s
1. The NHL did not have access to all global talent.
2. The game has grown to mammoth levels in the US since then.
3. Sweden and Finland's development programs were a level below what they are today.

Does Ovechkin score at Gretzky's pace if he played in the 80s? No idea,
But it's undeniable that Gretzky benefits from a skewed playing field insofar he faced lesser top-to-bottom talent in comparison to Oveckhin.

So Mario is an outlier who excels in any era but Wayne wouldn't?

 

[Hanji]

So Mario is an outlier who excels in any era but Wayne wouldn't?

The greats can excel in any era. The question is to what degree relative to today's greats based on strength of era, style of game, etc.

 

[Hanji]

If he hangs around scoring 10 goals a year that will definitely tarnish his legacy

Why?

I mean Gordie Howe came out of retirement at 69 to set a record (playing in 6 consecutive decades), which was about as gimmicky as you can get. Nobody thinks less of Howe.

Then again, Howe is a good old Canadian great; something Ovechkin isn't.

 

[BB79]

What I want is irrelevant. What I think will happen, is he won't break it. He'll come close but won't break it.

 

[gritdash60]

I don't, but there is not much of a chance of that happening either.

 

[wetcoast]

I don't, but there is not much of a chance of that happening either.

Have you watched him play recently?