Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[hamzarocks]

3rd place in the East and on a win streak right now

Posted that during our losing streak before the muzzin deal. Leafs are playing much better in their last 4 games. As for dubas, he has signed two players for too much money and too little term. If we get out in the first round again, hopefully either him or Babcock get replaced.

 

[rumman]

This was my biggest fear by putting in a greenhorn GM and going up against seasoned NHL agents.

Dubas contracts are shattering glass ceilings and setting new market levels for players both UFA and RFA and in a cap world where every penny counts this is not a good thing.

can't wait for the "spin doctors" to tell us he's doing great, just needs a couple of more contracts and he'll be a "elite" GM.

 

[Leaf Fans]

where ?

whoever thinks this is a fair deal cares more about the GM than the team

AM's my favorite player but this cap hit should have been for at least 7 yrs if not the 8 yr max term . How anyone can believe otherwise is beyond me .

Oh, people who have a different opinion than you do.

 

[Trapper]

This was my biggest fear by putting in a greenhorn GM and going up against seasoned NHL agents.

Dubas contracts are shattering glass ceilings and setting new market levels for players both UFA and RFA and in a cap world where every penny counts this is not a good thing.

Unlike Chicago,LA,Pittsburgh, we have paid our core with zero playoff success.

We aren’t sure what kind of elite playoff performers they are over the long haul.

Tavares 11
Matthews 11.6
Nylander 7
Marner at least 9.5

That’s 39 million on 4 forwards which is fine if we had some kind of playoff resume. It’s very limited and you still need a team around it.

Add 10 mil for Rielly/Andersen at present but they will need new deals.
Muzzin is a UFA after next year.

 

[hotpaws]

Oh, people who have a different opinion than you do.

and your opinion is this was a good/fair deal to the team when gauged against his comparable's ?

 

[Nalens Oga]

WHY did he not wait till after the playoffs if this was the deal? Someone answer me this without forcing a positive spin on it.

What was he going to ask at most after the playoffs, $12.5 M? Fine then we'd get an 8 year deal if he tried that. And this assumes that he'd have an amazing playoff performance and we win like 2 rounds.

 

[rumman]

forget the boy wonder, this is on Shanahan.

 

[Leaf Fans]

and your opinion is this was a good/fair deal to the team when gauged against his comparable's ?

It really doesn't matter what my opinion is to to you. The fact that it differs from yours feeds your ego. However, it is a message board so my opinion is that Dubas did what he had to do to sign Matthews. If there were crittisim from me, I put it on Matthews. He could have signed for less.

 

[Leaf Fans]

WHY did he not wait till after the playoffs if this was the deal? Someone answer me this without forcing a positive spin on it.

What was he going to ask at most after the playoffs, $12.5 M? Fine then we'd get an 8 year deal if he tried that. And this assumes that he'd have an amazing playoff performance and we win like 2 rounds.

Why do we assume that it was Matthews who wanted 5 or 6 years and not the Leafs?

 

[Bomber0104]

Why do we assume that it was Matthews who wanted 5 or 6 years and not the Leafs?

He either wanted a max deal at max term or he wanted 4 years to get to UFA as soon as possible.

He didn't get 4 but he got damn close to it, and with the 2nd highest salary (bonus-laden), and a NMC in his last year to boot..

He made out like a bandit. And what did the Leafs get? Well, his signature...

 

[Suntouchable13]

Unlike Chicago,LA,Pittsburgh, we have paid our core with zero playoff success.

We aren’t sure what kind of elite playoff performers they are over the long haul.

Tavares 11
Matthews 11.6
Nylander 7
Marner at least 9.5

That’s 39 million on 4 forwards which is fine if we had some kind of playoff resume. It’s very limited and you still need a team around it.

Add 10 mil for Rielly/Andersen at present but they will need new deals.
Muzzin is a UFA after next year.

Let's say they lose in the 1st round again this spring, then what? Do you still have to give an outrageous contract to Marner?

 

[The CyNick]

where ?

whoever thinks this is a fair deal cares more about the GM than the team

AM's my favorite player but this cap hit should have been for at least 7 yrs if not the 8 yr max term . How anyone can believe otherwise is beyond me .

The agents know that he's a push over. This is why myself and other hockey people knew it was important to get Nylander done early and quietly.

By stretching it out and making it a public negotiation, our young GM was forced to either let the player sit out cave to outrageous demands. He chose to cave. Matthews and Marner agents are watching this and going great, you didn't want to prioritize extensions for our clients last summer, well it'll cost ya. Even worse, our young GM knows he can't afford another drawn out battle, so he's cutting his losses on all fronts and will stand among the charred rubble and try to fix the mess he created.

The remaining RFAs around the league will be sending him Rolex watches by the truck full to thank him for his efforts.

 

[Menzinger]

We literally set the precedent. Dubas screwed over all the other gms and now all those rfas have two comparables (Matthews and Nylander) when trying to negotiate a high salary straight to ufa type of deal.

Everyone also needs to realize the only reason Nylander has a hit of 7 in the following years is cause it's over 10 this year. He has a 7.5 cap hit if he signed that deal at the beginning of the year.

He didn’t set precedent.... 5-6 year contracts have been the norm for most star UFAs rather than 8 year deals. Crosby and Malkin for example actually took up a lot more of the Pens capspace when they signed their post ELC contracts.

The Nylander signing shouldn’t be seen as a negative, that was management using the situation presented by the time missed of the holdout to their advantage to sign the player.

 

[hotpaws]

It really doesn't matter what my opinion is to to you. The fact that it differs from yours feeds your ego. However, it is a message board so my opinion is that Dubas did what he had to do to sign Matthews. If there were crittisim from me, I put it on Matthews. He could have signed for less.

so i guess then no GM should be criticized for signing a bad deal , curious

 

[Leaf Fans]

He either wanted a max deal at max term or he wanted 4 years to get to UFA as soon as possible.

He didn't get 4 but he got damn close to it, and with the 2nd highest salary (bonus-laden), and a NMC in his last year to boot..

He made out like a bandit. And what did the Leafs get? Well, his signature...

He will also play the games.

 

[socko]

You know it's bad when you have rival fans voting for Dubas: Oilers, Islanders, Penguins, etc. and he's still losing the poll.

 

[hotpaws]

The agents know that he's a push over. This is why myself and other hockey people knew it was important to get Nylander done early and quietly.

By stretching it out and making it a public negotiation, our young GM was forced to either let the player sit out cave to outrageous demands. He chose to cave. Matthews and Marner agents are watching this and going great, you didn't want to prioritize extensions for our clients last summer, well it'll cost ya. Even worse, our young GM knows he can't afford another drawn out battle, so he's cutting his losses on all fronts and will stand among the charred rubble and try to fix the mess he created.

The remaining RFAs around the league will be sending him Rolex watches by the truck full to thank him for his efforts.

I agree , the Dube f***ed up right from the get go by slow playing the kids contract negotiations . He yapped about taking time to make sure everyone including the players pet turtle was comfortable re signing to promote the out of the box forward thinker image he's trying to create for himself and it backfired and he now looks like an incompetent clueless fool .

 

[Trapper]

Let's say they lose in the 1st round again this spring, then what? Do you still have to give an outrageous contract to Marner?

Can’t answer that until the playoffs.
What if Marner is a star in the playoffs and others aren’t?

 

[Mess]

I expected from this summer that Matthews was going to get abut 15 CH% and on $83 mil (next year), that would have been $12.45 AAV which is nearly what McDavid got, but both on 8 year max deals, but with Cap inflation going up +$8 mil.

McDavid ..... $12.50 mil AAV X 8 years (CH% 16.66)
Matthews ..$12.45 mil AAV X 8 years (CH%15.00) ......... My expectation
Matthews ..$11.63 mil AAV X 5 years (CH% 14.63) ......... Actual
Eichel .......... $10.00 mil AAV X 8 years (CH% 13.33)

Matthews got almost the max expectancy but only gave the Leafs 5 years.

 

[socko]

Who would have thought we would have got a better deal with Tavares the UFA who could go anywhere he wanted to go. I guess it's a good thing he had those pajamas and Nylander hadn't broken him yet.

 

[Mess]

I agree , the Dube ****ed up right from the get go by slow playing the kids contract negotiations . He yapped about taking time to make sure everyone including the players pet turtle was comfortable re signing to promote the out of the box forward thinker image he's trying to create for himself and it backfired and he now looks like an incompetent clueless fool .

He spent the entire summer trying to sell "We before Me" and players taking less $$ but in reality it ended up max money with the players giving him less UFA years.

 

[Bomber0104]

You know it's bad when you have rival fans voting for Dubas: Oilers, Islanders, Penguins, etc. and he's still losing the poll.

Quit tainting my poll numbers, rival teams fans!!!!

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Any fans who have a problem with paying our ELITE trio ELITE player money are welcome to go be Senators fans instead. You'll never have to worry about cap space or having an expensive player worth paying.

 

[Trapper]

He spent the entire summer trying to sell "We before Me" and players taking less $$ but in reality it ended up max money with the players giving him less UFA years.

My question will be what do you say if Marner, Kapanen, Hyman are the best players in the playoffs?

 

[Dog]

Can not even imagine how much Marner will get now.. They just guaranteed Kapanen or Johnsson or both gone. They won't be able to trade Marleau.. Zaitsev contract will be hard to trade and Gardiner walks. They might as well trade Kapanen now as think he will get more money than Johnsson.