Do you trust Keefe as a coach in the playoffs?

Do you have faith in Keefe as a coach in the playoffs?

  • No I don't have faith in Keefe

    Votes: 201 82.7%
  • Yes I have faith in Keefe

    Votes: 34 14.0%
  • Other (provide explanation in the thread)

    Votes: 8 3.3%

  • Total voters
    243

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
31,193
24,625
I agree there’s nothing wrong with saying something nice after a win but if the criticism/not trusting him is based on him not winning a playoff series bumping this thread with a see I told you so after a win when no one disputed that he can get wins in the playoffs is just emotional/disingenuous. I’m all for the see I told you sos but they should come after a series win. We’ve won games before with keefe in the playoffs just never a series.

I just dislike it in general like when a player is having a bad/good season then have one good/bad game and people come out with the “yea you were saying!” well yea the point still stands until proven otherwise.
The criticism is based on many different things, some are valid and some aren't. One particular point of criticism is lineup decisions - Nylander/Tavares playing together is one thing people took issue with right before they scored 4 goals that night. Whatever, millions of different opinions exist and people have a right to post what they want and of course you're free to dislike what some people think.
 

CincoHolio

Registered User
Jan 8, 2013
1,448
1,276
Toronto
The fact that he didn't tell the team to play for a whistle after that 5 min fighting major was astonishing. But then maybe that was his genius too? It was gamble and it ultimately paid off. Kept Kuch and Stammer in the box for just as long so, who knows what he was thinking there?
 
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thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
42,233
12,684
Still no faith in the guy. Star players aren't even starting on time, strange decisions. Plenty of dumbfounded glares caught on camera that make skeptical.

Only guys starting on time are the players with the least time spent under Keefe. Strange no?
 
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ruaware41

Typical
Oct 22, 2019
1,783
1,747
The criticism is based on many different things, some are valid and some aren't. One particular point of criticism is lineup decisions - Nylander/Tavares playing together is one thing people took issue with right before they scored 4 goals that night. Whatever, millions of different opinions exist and people have a right to post what they want and of course you're free to dislike what some people think.
yea ofc but results are the best way to offset criticism which so far as coach he hasn’t delivered in the playoffs. I don’t think anyone will sit here and say he’s never ever made good line up decisions in any game of the playoffs considering the Leafs have played phenomenally in some playoff games. He hasn’t however been able to out coach the opposition over the course of a 7 game series whether that’s getting the team to show up or other aspects. One or two wins doesn’t refute that it’s just what we have already seen.
 

FlyingLeafus

But what about the playoffs?
Jan 4, 2009
2,320
336
Milton
Keefe outcoached the f*** out of Cooper tonight holy good grief
Is there anything specific you can point to to justify this take? Seems kinda baffling that anyone could come away thinking this after last night's game.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
31,193
24,625
yea ofc but results are the best way to offset criticism which so far as coach he hasn’t delivered in the playoffs. I don’t think anyone will sit here and say he’s never ever made good line up decisions in any game of the playoffs considering the Leafs have played phenomenally in some playoff games. He hasn’t however been able to out coach the opposition over the course of a 7 game series whether that’s getting the team to show up or other aspects. One or two wins doesn’t refute that it’s just what we have already seen.
Whatever. I'm not a huge Keefe fan but I don't think he's as bad as some people think either and I also think people overrate how big a role the coach plays in winning/losing a series. We don't see much of what coaches do so either so it's pretty hard to grade them as well. These playoffs I like the way he's handled Knies for one thing and you could debate Holl vs Liljegren but other than that, not really sure what you could criticize him for. As for him outcoaching the opposition, I'd say a couple of things:

1 - we don't need him to outcoach the opposition, we just need to win 4 games out of 7.
2 - how to you know he hasn't outcoached the opposition?
3 - if the players don't "show up", it's that on the players? Aren't they supposed to "show up" every game no matter what the coach says or does?
 

Leafblooded

Registered User
Jul 27, 2012
2,123
1,695
T.
It would be nice if Keefe continued to man up and standup for his team and his decisions, making it a point to respond to that rat faced gaslighting lawyer coach motherf***er on the other side
 

ruaware41

Typical
Oct 22, 2019
1,783
1,747
Whatever. I'm not a huge Keefe fan but I don't think he's as bad as some people think either and I also think people overrate how big a role the coach plays in winning/losing a series. We don't see much of what coaches do so either so it's pretty hard to grade them as well. These playoffs I like the way he's handled Knies for one thing and you could debate Holl vs Liljegren but other than that, not really sure what you could criticize him for. As for him outcoaching the opposition, I'd say a couple of things:

1 - we don't need him to outcoach the opposition, we just need to win 4 games out of 7.
2 - how to you know he hasn't outcoached the opposition?
3 - if the players don't "show up", it's that on the players? Aren't they supposed to "show up" every game no matter what the coach says or does?
I agree he’s not as bad as people say and not as good as other say as well probably. In either case bumping this thread after a win when his haters criticism is focused around him never winning a series not a playoff game is just a bit silly and misrepresents the root of the criticism. And you can argue a coach doesn’t have as much of a role in wins as people think in which case bumping a thread with a see I told you so after a single win is still a bit of a strange thing to do since it doesn’t prove anything. Most reasonable people or most people in general will not say he’s never done anything.

It’s been multiple years and he hasn’t been able to drag this team past round 1. How much of that is on him is up for debate but a single win, something he’s done before doesn’t disprove or negate that results based criticism.

We can debate until we’re blue in the face the 3 points you brought up. If you go by results, multiple first round losses in a row is not indicative of out coaching the opposition. And same for point 3, how much do you judge by results, how much is on the coach and how much on the players. It wasn’t my point anyway. It was that one win or one loss in a series isn’t the see I told ya so some think. For example he won game 2 and coached great imo. In game 3 the team seemed uninterested in winning but pulled it off. How much is on him for the team getting outplayed and being unmotivated and how much on the player etc. I agree results don’t always reflect a coach’s / teams performance in the short run.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
31,193
24,625
I agree he’s not as bad as people say and not as good as other say as well probably. In either case bumping this thread after a win when his haters criticism is focused around him never winning a series not a playoff game is just a bit silly and misrepresents the root of the criticism. And you can argue a coach doesn’t have as much of a role in wins as people think in which case bumping a thread with a see I told you so after a single win is still a bit of a strange thing to do since it doesn’t prove anything. Most reasonable people or most people in general will not say he’s never done anything.

It’s been multiple years and he hasn’t been able to drag this team past round 1. How much of that is on him is up for debate but a single win, something he’s done before doesn’t disprove or negate that results based criticism.

We can debate until we’re blue in the face the 3 points you brought up. If you go by results, multiple first round losses in a row is not indicative of out coaching the opposition. And same for point 3, how much do you judge by results, how much is on the coach and how much on the players. It wasn’t my point anyway. It was that one win or one loss in a series isn’t the see I told ya so some think. For example he won game 2 and coached great imo. In game 3 the team seemed uninterested in winning but pulled it off. How much is on him for the team getting outplayed and being unmotivated and how much on the player etc. I agree results don’t always reflect a coach’s / teams performance in the short run.
Thousands of posts here every day, many of them silly, not sure why this one bothers you so much. I don't think there's much more to say here.
 

ruaware41

Typical
Oct 22, 2019
1,783
1,747
Thousands of posts here every day, many of them silly, not sure why this one bothers you so much. I don't think there's much more to say here.
I was simply expressing my opinion to another poster on how I don't believe winning a playoff game = crow and kind of got dragged into a debate on it and I'm not particularly sure why. I think the playoffs are exciting enough without all this :)
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
31,193
24,625
I was simply expressing my opinion to another poster on how I don't believe winning a playoff game = crow and kind of got dragged into a debate on it and I'm not particularly sure why. I think the playoffs are exciting enough without all this :)
No big deal. If you're not sure why you're debating, you can just stop at any time. Easy peasy. :)
 

ZEBROA

Registered User
Dec 21, 2017
3,863
2,431
The criticism is based on many different things, some are valid and some aren't. One particular point of criticism is lineup decisions - Nylander/Tavares playing together is one thing people took issue with right before they scored 4 goals that night. Whatever, millions of different opinions exist and people have a right to post what they want and of course you're free to dislike what some people think.
I am still very much against the Nylander Tavares combination, they dont gel, they at least need ROR as the superglue.
 
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Petrus

Registered User
Jan 5, 2017
3,257
3,496
Bay Street
The Leafs had great difficulty maintaining consistent puck pressure in the offensive zone unlike in games 1 & 2.

Toronto also played terrible in game 3 -period 2 which was highly unusual.

It will be interesting to see how Keefe and team adjust in game 4.

What does edit mean when written in a thread?

It likely means they made a mistake/error with their post. They want to edit their post.
 
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DarkKnight

Professional Amateur
Jan 17, 2017
34,032
54,075
I did like Keefe yesterday at his presser. He was ansked about ROR and he said he’s poised and unfazed in these moments because he’s been there and has won. Then he said TB has a whole room full of those guys, so he seems more grounded than last year heading into game 4, he lost me there quite frankly. Know the moment, you’re trying to kill a bear with your bare hands tonight, don’t let them backup.
 

sxvnert

Registered User
Nov 23, 2015
12,811
7,997
I am still very much against the Nylander Tavares combination, they dont gel, they at least need ROR as the superglue.
Keefe had a lot of success with the Matthews/Nylander & Tavares/Marner combos throughout the season and yet hes only concerned with Mattys feels.
 
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ZEBROA

Registered User
Dec 21, 2017
3,863
2,431
I know what you mean. But still, 4 goals for them in game 2 is something.
Just feel they have to work so hard to play good together and when they change linemates its suddenly so much more effortless. It is hard as is with playoff hockey, you would think u woud want it as effortless as possible for the captain and the nr one goalscorer this season.

This is the only thing i have wanted for a loooong time. Just beyond irritating watching Keefe make every linechange possible exept that one.

Let it be. He's your coach - you dance with the girl that brought ya.
Not if she repeatedly knee you in the nuts.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
31,193
24,625
Just feel they have to work so hard to play good together and when they change linemates its suddenly so much more effortless. It is hard as is with playoff hockey, you would think u woud want it as effortless as possible for the captain and the nr one goalscorer this season.

This is the only thing i have wanted for a loooong time. Just beyond irritating watching Keefe make every linechange possible exept that one.
Yeah it was me, I wouldn't have them together either. I'd try Matthews with Nylander, ROR with Marner and JT centering a (hopefully) dominant 3rd line.
 
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authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
26,425
11,414
Still no faith in the guy. Star players aren't even starting on time, strange decisions. Plenty of dumbfounded glares caught on camera that make skeptical.

Only guys starting on time are the players with the least time spent under Keefe. Strange no?

If the coach is the "reason" the players aren't starting on time at this point then that says more about the players to me
 

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