Do you think you would have outperformed Dorion?

[PlayersLtd]

So how would the 69 people who are smarter than Dorion have sold Fiala on Ottawa vs SoCal ?

There is no Jedi mind trick or smooth talk that closes that sell job.

If you think you can outperform Dorion you need a massive reset regarding the way your evaluate hockey stuff.

70. It's up to 70 people around here who vastly overestimate themselves.

 

[Xspyrit]

Dorion seems to have some pretty intense knights in armor ready to defend him at all costs

But I'd like to see one of them show us a worse off-season than the one Pierre Dorion Jr. had leading up to the 2021 season, in NHL HISTORY

I mean if the whole purpose was to TANK and draft as high as possible to try and get a possible impact player, ok... but not only that offseason was INSULTING to the average hockey fan but we took Tyler freaking Boucher with the 10th overall pick...

I remember reading that Chabot + Zibanejad for Duchene were in advance talks when he first became available.

If that was ever considered, it's not a surprise if we're going nowhere fast. The only hope comes from having one of the best drafting teams since 2008 (Murray totally revamped the department in 2007, found Trent Mann in 2011). We have been able to renew our past stock into newer assets, will it be enough?

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

So some things I've read about MDZ makes it seem he's the complete opposite of the kind of veteran you want around kids. He's basically an obnoxious 13 year old.

But that's the guy Dorion gets for 4 million and then waives?

Or Dorion trading for Derek Stepan and him having to leave his small kids and travel across the border in the middle of the pandemic. Such a good idea. Not even to mention it's a 2nd for a washed up player.

I do not understand how someone like this still has one of 32 GM jobs. Like what on earth are his redeeming qualities as GM?

Absolute wanker.

It's hard to imagine a worse job being done but it seems like people like @Sweatred and @PlayersLtd would have traded Zibanejad + 1st for Brassard.

 

[Tuna99]

So some things I've read about MDZ makes it seem he's the complete opposite of the kind of veteran you want around kids. He's basically an obnoxious 13 year old.

But that's the guy Dorion gets for 4 million and then waives?

Or Dorion trading for Derek Stepan and him having to leave his small kids and travel across the border in the middle of the pandemic. Such a good idea. Not even to mention it's a 2nd for a washed up player.

I do not understand how someone like this still has one of 32 GM jobs. Like what on earth are his redeeming qualities as GM?

Absolute wanker.

Dorion wanted Fiala but thoughts he could get him for $6 million, and he wanted Paul but at $2.5 million.

Dorion has less of an understanding of salary brackets then even the fan that’s not paying attention

 

[aragorn]

Sure, I won't disagree there. I didn't even really mind Hamonic's play. The problem is we overpaid for an asset they badly wanted to get rid of. We managed to trade a 3rd round pick for a player no one else wanted. It isn't like this was some kind of bidding war, we had 0 competition for a player they needed to get rid of and with all the leverage in the deal we gave up assets. Philippe Myers is an RD who is 6 years younger and has similar underlying numbers to Hamonic was available the day before on waivers.

It does make you wonder when they do things like that, but I'm sure they have their reasons.

 

[Sweatred]

So some things I've read about MDZ makes it seem he's the complete opposite of the kind of veteran you want around kids. He's basically an obnoxious 13 year old.

But that's the guy Dorion gets for 4 million and then waives?

Or Dorion trading for Derek Stepan and him having to leave his small kids and travel across the border in the middle of the pandemic. Such a good idea. Not even to mention it's a 2nd for a washed up player.

I do not understand how someone like this still has one of 32 GM jobs. Like what on earth are his redeeming qualities as GM?

Absolute wanker.

It's hard to imagine a worse job being done but it seems like people like @Sweatred and @PlayersLtd would have traded Zibanejad + 1st for Brassard.

What quote are you using to make that assumption ? Any evidence or are you just fabricating it ?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

f*** McKenna.

Bitter that he got turfed. I can imagine the groaning if he was kept around.

This is very revealing.

 

[Sweatred]

Maybe just by being a better human you know . Like not having guys like Mike Mckenna being so vocal about how he was treated by you

You think that’s why Fiala went to LaLa ? Do you have anything better ?

 

[JD1]

It does make you wonder when they do things like that, but I'm sure they have their reasons.

I'm sure they do as well.

Hamonic went thru a pretty rough patch on the vaccination front. Wasn't going to play. I can imagine that causing problems with teammates

A better indicator of his presence in the room would be Capuano who had him in NYI. If Hamonic was a generally not well liked person, Capuano would know that. Capuano wanted him.

I think the need for a big, veteran rhd was clear. They got what they wanted.

If Hamonic sucks, it's a poor call to acquire him. If he plays solid minutes for a year, it's a good move

 

[Bileur]

Is it? Most posters on here are completely disconnected from reality.

"Yeah I totally would have convinced Melnyk to spend and to rebuild!"

I don’t think it’s that crazy.

Many complaints I read about Dorion relate to soft skills which are either innate or can be acquired in lots of jobs.

I’m thinking about his difficulty communicating a clear message (and reading the room), his reported difficulties dealing with employees etc.

Would the Sens be that worse off with a person who is a great people manager while losing a little on the hockey side? I don’t think so.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm sure they do as well.

Hamonic went thru a pretty rough patch on the vaccination front. Wasn't going to play. I can imagine that causing problems with teammates

A better indicator of his presence in the room would be Capuano who had him in NYI. If Hamonic was a generally not well liked person, Capuano would know that. Capuano wanted him.

I think the need for a big, veteran rhd was clear. They got what they wanted.

If Hamonic sucks, it's a poor call to acquire him. If he plays solid minutes for a year, it's a good move

One man's garbage is another man's treasure, he wasn't working there, if he works out here the price paid is fine,

Could we have gotten him for less, perhaps. I don't think Vancouver could have gotten a better return for him anyways, but does it matter if we couldn't have gotten an equivalent option for less?

Even if you assume we overpaid for him relative to the market at that moment, we still bought low on a piece with potential to bounce back into a 4/5 role or perhaps even better, which is what you want to see. Dorion's comment about them asking for a 4th and us given them a third because we didn't have a 4th bugs me a bit, you'd think we'd at least get back a 6th or something to balance it out, but in the end it's a minor quibble.

As an aside, I just realized this completes the Dadonov trade, we sent Dadonov to VGK and got back Holden and the third we traded for Hamonic. So a guy not working out that paced at 30 pts for us traded for two D that averaged about 19:30 a night for us, low key good move imo.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I don’t think it’s that crazy.

Many complaints I read about Dorion relate to soft skills which are either innate or can be acquired in lots of jobs.

I’m thinking about his difficulty communicating a clear message (and reading the room), his reported difficulties dealing with employees etc.

Would the Sens be that worse off with a person who is a great people manager while losing a little on the hockey side? I don’t think so.

Can you name three reported incidents that Dorion had dealing with employees? Are we talking players?

 

[aragorn]

One man's garbage is another man's treasure, he wasn't working there, if he works out here the price paid is fine,

Could we have gotten him for less, perhaps. I don't think Vancouver could have gotten a better return for him anyways, but does it matter if we couldn't have gotten an equivalent option for less?

Even if you assume we overpaid for him relative to the market at that moment, we still bought low on a piece with potential to bounce back into a 4/5 role or perhaps even better, which is what you want to see. Dorion's comment about them asking for a 4th and us given them a third because we didn't have a 4th bugs me a bit, you'd think we'd at least get back a 6th or something to balance it out, but in the end it's a minor quibble.

As an aside, I just realized this completes the Dadonov trade, we sent Dadonov to VGK and got back Holden and the third we traded for Hamonic. So a guy not working out that paced at 30 pts for us traded for two D that averaged about 19:30 a night for us, low key good move imo.

Holden & Hamonic turned into two players who improved our defence & were hard to play against especially Hamonic. Given they are both UFAs this yr & Holden is 35 yrs old they might still get something back for them should they move them at the TDL. Even if they don't it's the price of doing business & stabalizing the defence a little more.

 

[Bileur]

Can you name three reported incidents that Dorion had dealing with employees? Are we talking players?

Yeah the players are employees under his management.

Google it yourself, it’s been discussed ad nauseam.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Yeah the players are employees under his management.

Google it yourself, it’s been discussed ad nauseam.

Right, like who? McKenna? Like…. who else?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I don’t think it’s that crazy.

Many complaints I read about Dorion relate to soft skills which are either innate or can be acquired in lots of jobs.

I’m thinking about his difficulty communicating a clear message (and reading the room), his reported difficulties dealing with employees etc.

Would the Sens be that worse off with a person who is a great people manager while losing a little on the hockey side? I don’t think so.

Dorion is a buffoon but he was mentored by Bryan Murray and had to deal with Melnyk.

No one here could have done a much better job than he did. I am sure there are more than a few people out there who could have but no one from this here forum would qualify.

There is a lot more to running a team than public speaking and signing contracts.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dorion is a buffoon but he was mentored by Bryan Murray and had to deal with Melnyk.

No one here could have done a much better job than he did. I am sure there are more than a few people out there who could have but no one from this here forum would qualify.

There is a lot more to running a team than public speaking and signing contracts.

Even janitorial duties when working for Melnyk!

 

[JD1]

Dorion is a buffoon but he was mentored by Bryan Murray and had to deal with Melnyk.

No one here could have done a much better job than he did. I am sure there are more than a few people out there who could have but no one from this here forum would qualify.

There is a lot more to running a team than public speaking and signing contracts.

The internet is full of keyboard warriors that believe they could do a better job running pro sports teams than the people that are employed to do so. This forum is certainly not unique in that regard

 

[Sweatred]

Most people here (including myself) couldn’t make fries at McDonald’s better than the kid back there let alone outperform any GM of any NHL team.

I wonder How any of the 70+ could get picked for their local house league sort outs this fall. I’m putting the over/under at 2.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Most people here (including myself) couldn’t make fries at McDonald’s better than the kid back there let alone outperform any GM of any NHL team.

I wonder How any of the 70+ could get picked for their local house league sort outs this fall. I’m putting the over/under at 2.

Just like Trump was the most qualified person to be president huh

Appeal to authority is so weak.

Not even like anyone is comparing themselves to Yzerman or Sakic. But Pierre Dorion who is only in the position he is in because of nepotism as well as a crazy owner.

Weak. Just look at his results. Look at the moves he makes. The money he wastes.

You literally have to do nothing and just sit on your hands to outperform Pierre.

Crazy how some people are just wired to lick boots.

 

[Sweatred]

Just like Trump was the most qualified person to be president huh

Appeal to authority is so weak.

Not even like anyone is comparing themselves to Yzerman or Sakic. But Pierre Dorion who is only in the position he is in because of nepotism as well as a crazy owner.

Weak. Just look at his results. Look at the moves he makes. The money he wastes.

You literally have to do nothing and just sit on your hands to outperform Pierre.

Crazy how some people are just wired to lick boots.

Oh there is lots not to like like , and you’re right that he has made lots of bad decisions… I wasn’t arguing against that .

If you reread my post I think you may get my point.

 

[lancepitlick]

Appeal to authority is weak sauce. GMPD must be a good GM because he's a GM. You wouldn't be a good GM because you aren't a GM.

That's the logic.

Trump was a great President, Mike Milbury was legit, Melnky a great owner, Harold Ballard...

 

[Sweatred]

Appeal to authority is weak sauce. GMPD must be a good GM because he's a GM. You wouldn't be a good GM because you aren't a GM.

That's the logic.

Trump was a great President, Mike Milbury was legit, Melnky a great owner, Harold Ballard...

I think the logic connects the idea that someone working in the industry for 20 years may be better than someone never asked to evaluate novice house sort outs … or something like that…

 

[Xspyrit]

Just like Trump was the most qualified person to be president huh

Appeal to authority is so weak.

Not even like anyone is comparing themselves to Yzerman or Sakic. But Pierre Dorion who is only in the position he is in because of nepotism as well as a crazy owner.

Weak. Just look at his results. Look at the moves he makes. The money he wastes.

You literally have to do nothing and just sit on your hands to outperform Pierre.

Crazy how some people are just wired to lick boots.

Realistically, I wouldn't be able to do this job without the accumulated experience and skills that Dorion had (or should have had) by being in the hockey business for so long.

Pierre Dorion at eliteprospects.com

Eliteprospects.com staff profile of Pierre Dorion, 1972-07-06 Ottawa, ON, CAN Canada.

www.eliteprospects.com

He was a scout for 13 years, then 2 years of Dir. of Amateur Scouting, 4.5 years of Dir. of Player Personnel and 2.5 years of Asst. General Manager

With that kind of experience, I would have liked to take the challenge but you don't come out of the blue to take that kind of position, it takes preparation. However, I find that Pierre Dorion has a clear lack of foresight and is maybe just not a good chef (building a hockey team is like giving color and life to a recipe). Plus, his asset management is really really doubtful, at best. You also need to be able to hire the right people and have some kind of stability within your management team. A high turnover rate is very costly and won't bring the same results quality. We don't know how much having to work for Melnyk affected all of this but it can't be 100% on Melnyk. Murray dealt with the same crap and we achieved much better results while rebuilding on the fly while accumulating some very nice assets. The PR part didn't look like a disaster and just the way the opposing fans saw the team is not even comparable to today.

The first significant move under Pierre Dorion was to acquire 29 y/o Derick Brassard for 23 y/o Mika Zibanejad and a 2nd round pick. Unfortunately, our fate was drawn

Some decide to keep their head in the sand which is a natural coping mechanism. Don't blame them.

 

[lancepitlick]

I think the logic connects the idea that someone working in the industry for 20 years may be better than someone never asked to evaluate novice house sort outs … or something like that…

What's the point of the thread then if the premise is that it's impossible anyone could do a better job than GMPD?
For the record I said he'd likely do a much better job drafting than me. Though drafting is usually hiring good scouts.

His NHL moves have been almost entirely terrible and the only one that paid off huge was basically a fluke (SJ #1).