Do you think this team is better or worse going into next season?

[thusk]

He was not the best defensive D in the league.

The issue is, when does he start to fall off, and how quickly? TJ Brodie was considered a top defensive player and dropped off quickly (think it is more mental).

Does Tanev have any more good years of being a top defender? Most likely, yes. Does he have 6 years? Almost certainly no. So where does it land? Is it 1 more year? 2 years? 4 years?

Brodie never been considerated like a shutdown and defensive D but as two way dmen or transitionning D who lost his offensive

And defensive d have better chance to stay good longer b3cause the 1st thing you lost as player is speed and losing speed will affect more your game in the transition + offensive game than the defensive. That's why you still able to see guy like Chara, Hainsey, Suter, Staal, gio, engelland, greene, Staal or whatever because you don't need a lot of speed to defend well and be able to play in PK. But you don't see a lot of offensive dmen -35 or dmen stlye based on speed ( exemple keith) still have succes over 34

 

[LiseL]

I can’t see NJD missing the playoffs if Ullmark is even half-decent. I wouldn't be surprised if they get the 1 seed in the Metro. In the playoffs, they’ll be ousted early.

NJD got Markstrom, Sens got Ullmark. Saw a video about Markstrom where he thrives stopping high danger shots, something NJD gave up a lot of with Dougie Hamilton injury. Now that Dougie is healthy and they added Pesce and Markstrom in the off-season, would be surprised if they don't make the playoffs.

 

[notbias]

Brodie never been considerated like a shutdown and defensive D but as two way dmen or transitionning D who lost his offensive

And defensive d have better chance to stay good longer b3cause the 1st thing you lost as player is speed and losing speed will affect more your game in the transition + offensive game than the defensive. That's why you still able to see guy like Chara, Hainsey, Suter, Staal, gio, engelland, greene, Staal or whatever because you don't need a lot of speed to defend well and be able to play in PK. But you don't see a lot of offensive dmen -35 or dmen stlye based on speed ( exemple keith) still have succes over 34

Do you have more examples of defensive D (which Brodie is/was) that were still a top performer after 35?

Gio, Suter, and Chara are good, but the rest were 3rd pairing D at that point.

Seems like a lot more D are washed up by that age instead of playing as a 1st pairing D.

I'm not expecting him to fall off a cliff, but people thinking he is still in his prime or close to it are crazy.

 

[thusk]

Do you have more examples of defensive D (which Brodie is/was) that were still a top performer after 35?

Gio, Suter, and Chara are good, but the rest were 3rd pairing D at that point.

Seems like a lot more D are washed up by that age instead of playing as a 1st pairing D.

I'm not expecting him to fall off a cliff, but people thinking he is still in his prime or close to it are crazy.

Brodie never been a elite defensive D in any moment in his carreer even during his best year in Calgary.

engelland had been a top 4 d until 38, hainsey until 40...

Even at 34, he's one of top defensive D in the league and was the best D defensive side in free agency and i can see Tanev still having 4 or 5 great season.

 

[BayStBullies]

They were better the second Keefe left

 

[notbias]

Brodie never been a elite defensive D in any moment in his carreer even during his best year in Calgary.

engelland had been a top 4 d until 38, hainsey until 40...

Even at 34, he's one of top defensive D in the league and was the best D defensive side in free agency and i can see Tanev still having 4 or 5 great season.

Agree to disagree

https://x.com/i/web/status/1618266931420856325

Engellend was top 4 out of necessity, not because he was good enough, Vegas didn't have the same D they have today.

Hainsey was top 4 on a bad Leafs team and because he fit well with Rielly, if we were looking for someone like that then we overpaid.

There is a longer list of defensive D not playing well until ~40 than there are of ones who did.

The signing is alright, but how Tanev will age during the contract is a legitimate concern, it is foolish to think otherwise.

 

[Evilhomer]

He was not the best defensive D in the league.

The issue is, when does he start to fall off, and how quickly? TJ Brodie was considered a top defensive player and dropped off quickly (think it is more mental).

Does Tanev have any more good years of being a top defender? Most likely, yes. Does he have 6 years? Almost certainly no. So where does it land? Is it 1 more year? 2 years? 4 years?

Maybe they get 2 or 3 really good years out of Tanev. That is probably the best case scenario. But the contract is hardly crippling to the team, and when the time comes they will simply buy it out. If it ever becomes an issue from a cap perspective, they will get out of it the same way they have gotten out of every other cap problem.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

The first and most important thing Berube needs to do is force these guys to play playoff style hockey from game 1 through 82.

No fancy dipsy doodles, no whoring for milestones, no flybys along the boards. Essentially, I want to see this core out of their comfort zone and playing hockey that works in the postseason all season long.

If he tries to coach around their current style of play, this team will still be trash waiting to be dropped off at the curb in April.

 

[thusk]

Agree to disagree

https://x.com/i/web/status/1618266931420856325

Engellend was top 4 out of necessity, not because he was good enough, Vegas didn't have the same D they have today.

Hainsey was top 4 on a bad Leafs team and because he fit well with Rielly, if we were looking for someone like that then we overpaid.

There is a longer list of defensive D not playing well until ~40 than there are of ones who did.

The signing is alright, but how Tanev will age during the contract is a legitimate concern, it is foolish to think otherwise.

Hainsey was top 4 in a winning stanley cup team at like 37 and still at same same level in toronto at 38 and 39 and decline drastically at 40 .

Engelland was a top 4 D in a stanley cup finalist team.

With actual conditionning team, nutritionnist and all staff to help player, some player with great work ethic and discipline at 36-37-38 was looking like player at 31-32-33 like 10-15-20 years ago

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Maybe they get 2 or 3 really good years out of Tanev. That is probably the best case scenario. But the contract is hardly crippling to the team, and when the time comes they will simply buy it out. If it ever becomes an issue from a cap perspective, they will get out of it the same way they have gotten out of every other cap problem.

2 or 3 years is probably the amount of time he’ll be healthy enough for the deal anyway.

 

[notbias]

Hainsey was top 4 in a winning stanley cup team at like 37 and still at same same level in toronto at 38 and 39 and decline drastically at 40 .

Engelland was a top 4 D in a stanley cup finalist team.

With actual conditionning team, nutritionnist and all staff to help player, some player with great work ethic and discipline at 36-37-38 was looking like player at 31-32-33 like 10-15-20 years ago

Pitts team is used as a reference for teams who have won a cup with terrible D, just FYI.

Engelland was not great, not sure we will agree.

Regardless, there are examples, but there aren't many.

Top 2 is what people are hoping for out of Tanev anyway, not top 4.

 

[Evilhomer]

2 or 3 years is probably the amount of time he’ll be healthy enough for the deal anyway.

The injury issues don't concern me. In the playoffs, he will play through any injury. I could care less how many regular season games he misses. Frankly, the more the better. I'd rather he miss most of the season to be rested for the playoffs.

 

[thusk]

Pitts team is used as a reference for teams who have won a cup with terrible D, just FYI.

Engelland was not great, not sure we will agree.

Regardless, there are examples, but there aren't many.

Top 2 is what people are hoping for out of Tanev anyway, not top 4.

Terrible D who allowed the 2nd lowest number of goal by a stanley cup champion behing the 2021 Tampa bay lightning in the last 10... So need to ask yourself if it was really a bad D or an underratted D

Engelland was not the best one but in the right spot had been pretty good.

Top 2 or top 4, i will tell you than over 98% of people here who not be able to give a real definition of what the difference between a top pair dman and a top 4... For the simple r3ason than a player in a spot where you're able to use his strenght will always look better.

Toews in NYI was considerated like a top 4 ---> become immediatelly a top pair
lindholm top 4 in anaheim----> boston
montour buffalo ---> florida
Hronek detroit ---> vancouver

Methot in ottawa was a top pair dman and the day he left, he became a top 4 and Ottawa never been able to overcome his lost. He had been the best Karlsson partner ever because what he bring what the perfect complement to Karlsson game not because he was an elite D. Personally i prerer find the best complement for rielly and the best complement for mccabe than just try to bring in the biggest name on marker

Personally i think #1,2, 3,4,5 ... its overrated... The most important thing is to get the right player you need at the rigjt spot to be able to use his strengjt like your should.Tanev is a great top 4 D who bring something leafs didn't had and really missed and i cam say the same with OEL. By exemple it would not be the case with a guy like Roy.

 

[notbias]

Terrible D who allowed the 2nd lowest number of goal by a stanley cup champion behing the 2021 Tampa bay lightning... So need to ask yourself if it wqs really a bad D or an underratted D

Engelland was not the best one but in the right spot had been pretty good.

Top 2 or top 4, i will tell you than over 98% of people here who not be able to give a real definition of what the difference between a top pair dman and a top 4... For the simple r3ason than a player in a spot where you're able to use his strenght will always look better.

Toews in NYI was considerated like a top 4 ---> become immediatelly a top pair
lindholm top 4 in anaheim----> boston
montour buffalo ---> florida
Hronek detroit ---> vancouver

Personally i think #1,2, 3,4,5 ... its overrated... The most important thing is to get the right player you need at the rigjt spot to be able to use his strengjt like your should.Tanev is a great top 4 D who bring something leafs didn't had and really missed and i cam say the same with OEL. By exemple it would not be the case with a guy like Roy.

Not the .924 and .937 goaltending they had, can't be that, that's crazy to think that contributed in a large way to their GA.

Top 2/4 is just ranking how good the actual player is, it is not necessarily just TOI or where they play, at least to me. The top 4 on Arizona won't likely displace anyone on Colorado in the top 4 for example if they were traded.

Schenn and Lub both did above average jobs (the Schenn/Rielly pairing was amazing, one of the best pairings that playoff), so they've had versions of it... you even mentioned Hainsey as a good player when he played here. They've had this D many times before. Tanev may be the best (I don't think he and Rielly can beat the Schenn pairing, but get 75% there and I'll be happy), but he is also old and has a long history of injuries. You may not be concerned with all that, but I am wondering when he starts to slide down the depth chart because his game starts to fall off.

By the way people are talking, I am expecting the best version of Rielly I've ever seen and the best defensive D we've ever had, and for multiple seasons, you've got my hopes up, thanks.

 

[thusk]

Not the .924 and .937 goaltending they had, can't be that, that's crazy to think that contributed in a large way to their GA.

Top 2/4 is just ranking how good the actual player is, it is not necessarily just TOI or where they play, at least to me. The top 4 on Arizona won't likely displace anyone on Colorado in the top 4 for example if they were traded.

Schenn and Lub both did above average jobs (the Schenn/Rielly pairing was amazing, one of the best pairings that playoff), so they've had versions of it... you even mentioned Hainsey as a good player when he played here. They've had this D many times before. Tanev may be the best (I don't think he and Rielly can beat the Schenn pairing, but get 75% there and I'll be happy), but he is also old and has a long history of injuries. You may not be concerned with all that, but I am wondering when he starts to slide down the depth chart because his game starts to fall off.

By the way people are talking, I am expecting the best version of Rielly I've ever seen and the best defensive D we've ever had, and for multiple seasons, you've got my hopes up, thanks.

for pittsburgh goalie yes but i watched every of those game and i can tell you, i never saw in the last 10 years a team protecting his goalie as good than what pittsburgh this year. It was just so hard to create anything against that pittsburgh team. Just enter in Pittsburgh territorry was a challenge and when they was in pittsburgh zone, try to create scoring chance was an other challenge. Every body had his role and had been in position to use their strenght.

top 2 or 4... dont change anything in my mind because you can't win with only 1 good pair. You need at least 2 great pair who will bring a lot of different thing and complete each other. that's a thing leafs never had last 20 year. Schenn and boosh was good exemple, the reason why they had sucxes together was because they was complementing. But don't overrated thw Rielly-Schenn pairing because leafs used Rielly the higher number of offensive situation they could vs mccabe-Brodie and gio-Holl a lot of tough matchup. Something who will not be the case with Tanev. Rielly-Tanev will play a lot of tough minute together. You need to be able to get a full view of the situation.

And yes i'm expect rielly to be a better all around D this season and i also hope tham OEl with be able to bring the 2 way game to be the right partner for Mccabe.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Congratulations Brad.

I didn't think it was possible you could do an even worse job than last year. But somehow you managed to outdo yourself and made the team even older and shittier. All those mistakes in Calgary clearly taught you a thing or two.

Lol... Treliving hasn't learned a damn thing about GM'ing yet.

He's still signing ridiculous contracts. He still targeting veteran junk in free agency. And we all know he won't shy away from making a horrible trade at the drop of a hat.

When you have someone who has failed to acknowledge their stupid mistakes they are doomed to repeat them.

It's like Treliving has the right idea but doesn't know how to implement it properly. He just comes across as a stereotype of the cigar chomping 1970's GM as a result. He's the type to have one password for everything and it's Brad.

Keep up the good work, Brad, keep up the good work.

 

[mjd1001]

NJD got Markstrom, Sens got Ullmark. Saw a video about Markstrom where he thrives stopping high danger shots, something NJD gave up a lot of with Dougie Hamilton injury. Now that Dougie is healthy and they added Pesce and Markstrom in the off-season, would be surprised if they don't make the playoffs.

I think NJ is a legit threat for the #1 seed in the conference. They were a very young team 2 years ago and had 112 points. Last year they were destroyed by injuries and bad goaltending (Meier, Hughes, Hischier, and of course Hamilton all missed a lot of combined games). Hughes and Hischier are probably their 2 best players and so young that they should be even better than they were in that 112 point season.

I see Jersey as a legit cup contender and a team Toronto has to worry about beating in that conference final to get to the cup.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Agree to disagree

https://x.com/i/web/status/1618266931420856325

Engellend was top 4 out of necessity, not because he was good enough, Vegas didn't have the same D they have today.

Hainsey was top 4 on a bad Leafs team and because he fit well with Rielly, if we were looking for someone like that then we overpaid.

There is a longer list of defensive D not playing well until ~40 than there are of ones who did.

The signing is alright, but how Tanev will age during the contract is a legitimate concern, it is foolish to think otherwise.

Hainsey was not top 4 on a bad Leafs team, there hasn't been a bad Leafs team in almost a decade

 

[notDatsyuk]

Hainsey was not top 4 on a bad Leafs team, there hasn't been a bad Leafs team in almost a decade

That comment was so far out to lunch that I thought it was dekes.

I suppose you could call them mediocre or average rather than bad, if you're looking at the team overall and not just the defence.

Bottom half of the league in goals allowed in 7 of the last 10 seasons, bottom third in 4 of 10, and there are only 14 teams with a worse GA/GP over that span.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

I think NJ is a legit threat for the #1 seed in the conference. They were a very young team 2 years ago and had 112 points. Last year they were destroyed by injuries and bad goaltending (Meier, Hughes, Hischier, and of course Hamilton all missed a lot of combined games). Hughes and Hischier are probably their 2 best players and so young that they should be even better than they were in that 112 point season.

I see Jersey as a legit cup contender and a team Toronto has to worry about beating in that conference final to get to the cup.

We should worry about winning 4 games in a playoff series first lol

But yea jersey is looking really good, both current and future. They have an insane future dcore of Hughes, nemec, silayev, Casey and currently have the top two and Hamilton + pesche

Great forward core with depth and star power on great contracts

Markstrom is a question mark but if he can provide above average goaltending jersey should be hovering top 3 in the conference

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

That comment was so far out to lunch that I thought it was dekes.

I suppose you could call them mediocre or average rather than bad, if you're looking at the team overall and not just the defence.

Bottom half of the league in goals allowed in 7 of the last 10 seasons, bottom third in 4 of 10, and there are only 14 teams with a worse GA/GP over that span.

You can't be both a both a bad team and also be a playoff team that's impossible.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You can't be both a both a bad team and also be a playoff team that's impossible.

Considering that half the teams make the playoffs, yes you can.

But as I said, if you look at the team as a whole, mediocre is reasonable, but looking at just the defence, bad is correct.

If this will clarify: good offence + bad defence = average team (that can make the playoffs, but not do well in them).

 

[notbias]

You can't be both a both a bad team and also be a playoff team that's impossible.

Should have specified D, but you should probably join more threads and mention this, this whole board is talking about how bad we are

 

[darrylsittler27]

The real question is are the good enough to win a cup? The answer is no. Tre can't fix this mess. Depending who we get first round we could lose first round again. Then what?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

At this point, who is moving a C though? There really aren't a surplus of them available in the league. It's going to be Domi/Holmberg/Minten who fills that spot.

Tyler Johnson is still available as a UFA though... he's looking to move to a team that will make the playoffs, and he'd likely take a healthy pay cut. I'd reach out and find out what the ask is.


Design a system that maximizes what you get out of round pegs.

3C is probably a move closer to the deadline, unless Minten can do the job this year.

Otherwise I suspect they will be in on Guys like Pageau, Jourde, Eller.

It all depends on who ends up selling