Do you consider Auston Matthews a Top-5 Center heading into next year?

[Sidney the Kidney]

So how come Draisatil wasn't considered more for being the 1st overall pick in 2014?

He sort of was. There was no consensus that year, with any one of Sam Reinhart, Aaron Ekblad, Leon Draisaitl or Sam Bennett flipping back and forth as the guy ranked 1st. Other than Ekblad, each had a perceived weakness in their game that prevented them from being the consensus #1 pick. Reinhart's was skating and not overly dymanic, Bennett's was no specific elite skill, and Draisaitl's was also skating. Draisaitl fixed his one weakness and became the player he was projected to be.

 

[LeafsNation75]

He sort of was. There was no consensus that year, with any one of Sam Reinhart, Aaron Ekblad, Leon Draisaitl or Sam Bennett flipping back and forth as the guy ranked 1st. Other than Ekblad, each had a perceived weakness in their game that prevented them from being the consensus #1 pick. Reinhart's was skating and not overly dymanic, Bennett's was no specific elite skill, and Draisaitl's was also skating. Draisaitl fixed his one weakness and became the player he was projected to be.

Even with the benefit of hindsight because Draisaitl should be the 1st overall pick if you do a 2014 re-draft, if Edmonton had the 1st overall pick would they still have selected him 1st overall? I know 1 year earlier they selected Darnell Nurse 7th overall because they needed help on defense and their scouts wanted Ryan Murray 1st overall in 2012, however Darryl Katz wanted Nail Yakupov instead and overruled them. So do they keep adding to the defense and select Ekblad since he became the best choice for the 1st pick at that time or go with Draisaitl?

 

[Aceboogie]

They can be considered the same tier but Matthews should be ranked ahead of Eichel.

Matthews should also be ranked ahead of Pettersson and I don't consider them to be in the same tier.

Next season Pettersson has a chance to outscoure him. I do not know how you can watch these playoffs and not think they are in the same tier (or all of this past season to be specific).

I hate Vancouver, but Pettersson is legit. To say Matthews is a tier above just shows massive Leafs homerism that kind of invalidates all your other arguments

 

[authentic]

Well the 3 ahead of him for sure are McDavid, MacKinnon and Crosby, so pretty much it wouldn't be hard to say he's clearly 4th. Not top 5 is tough to justify but on HF it's no real surprise,

 

[BKarchitect]

McD/MacK
Sid/Drai
Matthews/Eichel/EP

Sure - Matthews is definitely in that discussion for Top 5. I hate the Leafs but he had a great season and looks like he’s continuing to improve. Eichel and EP are certainly in the same class though. I do think Matthews had a better overall 2019-20 than those two but when Eichel gets hot (and gets support) he’s unstoppable and EP is proving in the playoff bubble he’s a legit franchise superstar with a ridiculous ceiling. There may not be much of a gap between tier 2 and tier 3 (I’m supposing a gradual slow down from Sid).

 

[authentic]

Matthews has also greatly improved his PP efficiency the last two years and his totals are hindered a bit by the Leafs lack of PPs. I don't really see much of an argument for Pasta being the better goalscorer overall.

I don't see a real argument for anyone besides Ovechkin but even then they are basically dead even since Matthews has been in the league on a per game basis.

 

[authentic]

McD/MacK
Sid/Drai
Matthews/Eichel/EP

Sure - Matthews is definitely in that discussion for Top 5. I hate the Leafs but he had a great season and looks like he’s continuing to improve. Eichel and EP are certainly in the same class though. I do think Matthews had a better overall 2019-20 than those two but when Eichel gets hot (and gets support) he’s unstoppable and EP is proving in the playoff bubble he’s a legit franchise superstar with a ridiculous ceiling. There may not be much of a gap between tier 2 and tier 3 (I’m supposing a gradual slow down from Sid).

I'm not even sure if Eichel and EP should be ahead of Malkin really. But could be shortly.

 

[BAM]

Do you even follow hockey or just Leafs? Memorial cup MVP Draisaitl was a center throughout junior. He was beastly as a center. Amazing on the dot.

IMO Matthews is closer to a prototypical winger. He isn’t a great playmaker.

In terms of actual center responsibilities and faceoffs, Matthews is one of the best overall and especially for his age. Go look at the numbers.

It's a little bit easier to rack up assists when you're literally riding shotgun to McDavid.

 

[BAM]

I'm not even sure if Eichel and EP should be ahead of Malkin really. But could be shortly.

If I knew Malkin would be healthy the entire season, I'd take Malkin easily over EP and Eichel. Malkin is still a top 5-7 C even while injured a decent amount.

The guy was on pace for 110 points this year LOL if anything, I'd say he's underrated now.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

His shitty work ethic/gliding bumps him down several spots for me.

this is an extremely outdated take. Matthews is a beast on both sides of the puck. The numbers and eye test both support it.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Next season Pettersson has a chance to outscoure him. I do not know how you can watch these playoffs and not think they are in the same tier (or all of this past season to be specific).

I hate Vancouver, but Pettersson is legit. To say Matthews is a tier above just shows massive Leafs homerism that kind of invalidates all your other arguments

or maybe he doesn't consider an 8 game sample size a sufficient enough sample to properly evaluate players?
Just a thought.

 

[authentic]

If I knew Malkin would be healthy the entire season, I'd take Malkin easily over EP and Eichel. Malkin is still a top 5-7 C even while injured a decent amount.

The guy was on pace for 110 points this year LOL if anything, I'd say he's underrated now.

Realistically he's not much worse than he ever was just can't stay healthy.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Realistically he's not much worse than he ever was just can't stay healthy.

His shot's not what it once was. Apparently he's having surgery on his elbow to try and fix an issue that's been plaguing him since 2016, which has hurt the velocity on his shot since then.

 

[Merrrlin]

His shitty work ethic/gliding bumps him down several spots for me.

Uneducated post but I've learned I can't expect much more than that from you.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Only two I would have ahead of him for sure are McDavid and MacKinnon.

 

[lottster14]

Uneducated post but I've learned I can't expect much more than that from you.

Thank you for remembering my posts and judging me. I do not do the same to you.

 

[keglu]

Well the 3 ahead of him for sure are McDavid, MacKinnon and Crosby, so pretty much it wouldn't be hard to say he's clearly 4th. Not top 5 is tough to justify but on HF it's no real surprise,

Yes, only on hfboards you can argue Art Ross winner over player with 30 fewer points.
Or another one with great track record and 5 fewer points in 15 fewer games.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Next season Pettersson has a chance to outscoure him. I do not know how you can watch these playoffs and not think they are in the same tier (or all of this past season to be specific).

I hate Vancouver, but Pettersson is legit. To say Matthews is a tier above just shows massive Leafs homerism that kind of invalidates all your other arguments

Since Matthews has currently outscored Pettersson in the regular season it's why Matthews should be ranked ahead of him.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Since Matthews has currently outscored Pettersson in the regular season it's why Matthews should be ranked ahead of him.

That doesn't seem to stop Leaf fans from putting Matthews ahead of Draisaitl.

 

[LeafsNation75]

That doesn't seem to stop Leaf fans from putting Matthews ahead of Draisaitl.

Prior to this season I think it was fair to argue that Matthews and Draisaitl were very similar. Although Draisaitl has won the Art Ross and is the favorite to win the Hart and Ted Lindsay awards, he should be ranked ahead of Matthews.

However in my opinion Pettersson hasn't done anything yet to be ranked ahead of Matthews.

 

[Merrrlin]

That doesn't seem to stop Leaf fans from putting Matthews ahead of Draisaitl.

Which ones?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Which ones?

Scan through this very thread to find at least one example. One even called me "butthurt" for defending Draisaitl.

And let's not pretend it's not more widespread than just one fan. Just wait for any "list the top 10 centers going into next season" threads and see how many fans get upset when Matthews is listed below Draisaitl or who list Matthews ahead of Draisaitl on their own list.

Edit: Sorry, that guy listed them on the same tier. But the overall point is, this notion that "outproducing means better" didn't seem to matter in that case, but it does when Matthews outproduces someone?

 

[Merrrlin]

Scan through this very thread to find at least one example. One even called me "butthurt" for defending Draisaitl.

And let's not pretend it's not more widespread than just one fan. Just wait for any "list the top 10 centers going into next season" threads and see how many fans get upset when Matthews is listed below Draisaitl or who list Matthews ahead of Draisaitl on their own list.

Edit: Sorry, that guy listed them on the same tier. But the overall point is, this notion that "outproducing means better" didn't seem to matter in that case, but it does when Matthews outproduces someone?

I am sure there aren't any Pittsburgh sports fans with homer views.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I am sure there aren't any Pittsburgh sports fans with homer views.

To the same degree? No. And certainly not in situations where our player is being outscored by a significant margin and we still insist he's better than that player who outscored him.

For instance, you likely won't find many (other than the 1 or 2 over the top loons) Pens fans who will argue Guentzel is better than Marner, even though Guentzel scores more goals and is "only" around 10 points less than him when each plays a full season.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Prior to this season I think it was fair to argue that Matthews and Draisaitl were very similar. Although Draisaitl has won the Art Ross and is the favorite to win the Hart and Ted Lindsay awards, he should be ranked ahead of Matthews.

However in my opinion Pettersson hasn't done anything yet to be ranked ahead of Matthews.

Weird, then why did you vote Matthews in this thread?