Do you consider Auston Matthews a Top-5 Center heading into next year?

[Tad Mikowsky]

Which ones?

For starters, the guy who liked your post.

Then again, you’re the same guy that’s projecting 85 points for Draisaitl next year, so I guess you could include yourself.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Weird, then why did you vote Matthews in this thread?

That's asking who is the better player to build around (implying future projection) not necessarily who is the better player in this current moment.

You're comparing apples to oranges

 

[Cotton]

McDavid
Mackinnon
Bergeron
Crosby

The above 4 are clearly better imo. Then you have guys who're on the same tier as Matthews that I think one could argue as being better (like Eichel).

I have yet in 4 years seen anyone actually make a legit argument that Eichel is better.

 

[johnnybbadd]

This is hard because he absolutely is #4 if best centre means production. In terms of total production he is behind McDavid, Mackinnon and Drai. The problem is that if I’m going into a playoff series right now I’m taking Crosby, Malkin and Bergeron over Matthews based on their body of work and I don’t see them losing their matchup to Matthews. Bergeron because of his defensive prowess and Malkin and Crosby for their knack to just take over which Matthews has really never done in his playoff appearances. Not saying that he hasn’t played well but not to the level of a Malkin or Crosby. Eichel, Barkov and Peterssen are all very close to Matthews and any certain year can flip flop ahead of him too.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That's asking who is the better player to build around (implying future projection) not necessarily who is the better player in this current moment.

You're comparing apples to oranges

Isn't it essentially the same thing when both players are around the same age? Usually the only time there's a differentiation is if the poll is between players who are at different ages and so you have to differentiate "for the future" and "currently better" because the current choice might be 28 and leaving his prime while the player he's compared to is 20 and just entering his.

In the case of Matthews and Draisaitl, they're essentially both at the same stage of their careers and will both be in their prime for the same amount of time to come.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Isn't it essentially the same thing when both players are around the same age? Usually the only time there's a differentiation is if the poll is between players who are at different ages and so you have to differentiate "for the future" and "currently better" because the current choice might be 28 and leaving his prime while the player he's compared to is 20 and just entering his.

In the case of Matthews and Draisaitl, they're essentially both at the same stage of their careers and will both be in their prime for the same amount of time to come.

I mean Draisaitl is 2 years older and look where he was 2 years ago. Not saying development is linear but i think Draisaitl is far closer to being a finished product (I actually doubt he'll ever put up another season like the one he just had) than what Matthews is, especially since Matthews is finally playing under a coach that gives him the icetime, opportunity and usage that a player of his caliber should be getting.

 

[BlueBaron]

No.

McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Eichel, Draisaitl, Pettersson all are easily better. There are arguments for one or two others, as well.

I'm not sure you know what "easily" means. You seem to be confusing it with "from my biased perspective".

If you ask someone without your biases they might identify a guy or two who is probably not perceived as universally better. EP and Eichel don't have very strong cases statistically. EP actually has no case at all beyond HF magical eye tests.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Scan through this very thread to find at least one example. One even called me "butthurt" for defending Draisaitl.

And let's not pretend it's not more widespread than just one fan. Just wait for any "list the top 10 centers going into next season" threads and see how many fans get upset when Matthews is listed below Draisaitl or who list Matthews ahead of Draisaitl on their own list.

Edit: Sorry, that guy listed them on the same tier. But the overall point is, this notion that "outproducing means better" didn't seem to matter in that case, but it does when Matthews outproduces someone?

I remember going into Matthews second season with Toronto and on TSN's top 50 players list prior to the 2017-18 season was announced, a lot of non Leafs fans went crazy on here that they had Matthews listed at #10.

So it goes back a long time where a lot of non Leafs fans have been upset at Matthews ranking on lists like that.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Since Matthews has currently outscored Pettersson in the regular season it's why Matthews should be ranked ahead of him.

Pettersson has 3 less points than Matthews overall total output in the playoffs. Let that sink in.

They are on the same tier.

You can disagree of Pettersson being ahead of Matthews.

but to suggest they are not on the same tier is stupid. Pettersson has gone to a level in the playoffs that Matthews has not shown yet.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Pettersson has 3 less points than Matthews overall total output in the playoffs. Let that sink in.

They are on the same tier.

You can disagree of Pettersson being ahead of Matthews.

but to suggest they are not on the same tier is stupid. Pettersson has gone to a level in the playoffs that Matthews has not shown yet.

It's one thing to say that they should be in the same tier. However it's crazy to suggest that Pettersson should be ranked ahead of Matthews.

 

[Ace of Hades]

It's one thing to say that they should be in the same tier. However it's crazy to suggest that Pettersson should be ranked ahead of Matthews.

Not at all given how one has severely outplayed the other when it matters.

 

[JAK]

It's one thing to say that they should be in the same tier. However it's crazy to suggest that Pettersson should be ranked ahead of Matthews.

What matters most? The Stanley Cup!

Playoff career :
Matthews 19 points in 25 games, never won a single playoff series in 5 tries.
Petterson 16 points in 12 games, won two playoff series and is playing his third in career right now.

 

[Halla]

absolutely. He is behind only McDavid, Draisaitl, and Mackinnon right now

dudes full season pace was something silly like 56g/95pts

 

[Halla]

What matters most? The Stanley Cup!

Playoff career :
Matthews 19 points in 25 games, never won a single playoff series in 5 tries.
Petterson 16 points in 12 games, won two playoff series and is playing his third in career right now.

yeah who cares about 3-4 years of sample size lets do 16 games!

pettersson hasnt hit 30g or 70pts yet. he isnt nearly as good as matthews who just dominated with 47g/80pts in 70 games

 

[Halla]

It's one thing to say that they should be in the same tier. However it's crazy to suggest that Pettersson should be ranked ahead of Matthews.

only one of those guys has ever hit 30g (AM34 x 4), 40g (AM34 x2) 70pts (AM34x2), 80pts (AM34x1) or been a ppg player (AM34x3)


but the main basis of petterson being better is his 12 game playoff stats? hot garbage


Matthews >>> Petey right now and it isnt in the realm of being close. Petey and marner are close

these very boards voted matthews 12th, petey 21st and marner 23rd

Top 30 NHL Players #30

 

[LeafsNation75]

only one of those guys has ever hit 30g (AM34 x 4), 40g (AM34 x2) 70pts (AM34x2), 80pts (AM34x1) or been a ppg player (AM34x3)


but the main basis of petterson being better is his 12 game playoff stats? hot garbage


Matthews >>> Petey right now and it isnt in the realm of being close. Petey and marner are close

these very boards voted matthews 12th, petey 21st and marner 23rd

Top 30 NHL Players #30

It seems that the tradition of Canucks fans obsession of hating everything Toronto has continued with how they rank Pettersson over Matthews.

Also since you brought up how Marner and Pettersson are closer to be compared to one another, Marner already has a 94 point season and Pettersson had yet to score more then 66 points in his first two years.

 

[Ace of Hades]

It seems Leaf fans have this obsession of playing the victim complex card every time anyone ranks EP over Matthews.

What is this nonsense about 3-4 years of sample size, when Matthews finally hit 80 points for the first time in his career.

The fact that you two think EP and Marner is closer in levels compared to EP and Matthews is hot garbage.

EP was on pace for 30+ Goals and 80 points before the pandemic started.

Embarrassing using that top 30 list rank given how ROR is ranked below Marner.

Stop using regular season point totals over actual post season importance.

EP right now is a better player than he was in February.

EP and Matthews are on the same tier, get over it.

Embarrassing hot takes over and over from Leaf fans.

 

[JAK]

yeah who cares about 3-4 years of sample size lets do 16 games!

pettersson hasnt hit 30g or 70pts yet. he isnt nearly as good as matthews who just dominated with 47g/80pts in 70 games

Ask Joe Thorton would he trade all his regular season points for one stanley cup.

 

[wintersej]

What I do know is that if you put him on Tavares RW he would be a first ballot HOF RW and the best winger in the league.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It seems Leaf fans have this obsession of playing the victim complex card every time anyone ranks EP over Matthews.

What is this nonsense about 3-4 years of sample size, when Matthews finally hit 80 points for the first time in his career.

The fact that you two think EP and Marner is closer in levels compared to EP and Matthews is hot garbage.

EP was on pace for 30+ Goals and 80 points before the pandemic started.

Embarrassing using that top 30 list rank given how ROR is ranked below Marner.

Stop using regular season point totals over actual post season importance.

EP right now is a better player than he was in February.

EP and Matthews are on the same tier, get over it.

Embarrassing hot takes over and over from Leaf fans.

Matthews was on pace for 56 goals and 90+ points before the pandemic started.

So I can also show examples at how much better of a season Matthews was having compared to Pettersson.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Debatable.

Mack, drai and McDavid are unquestionably better.

Matthews is in the pack with Eichel; Malkin; crosby; Bergeron etc.

 

[keglu]

absolutely. He is behind only McDavid, Draisaitl, and Mackinnon right now

dudes full season pace was something silly like 56g/95pts

Its not silly in current NHL. There were 5 centers on pace for 105+pts last season.

 

[Aceboogie]

absolutely. He is behind only McDavid, Draisaitl, and Mackinnon right now

dudes full season pace was something silly like 56g/95pts

I guess when your career high is in the 80 point range, 95 points seems silly. But 95 points isnt crazy to many Elite NHLers

 

[Isaac Nootin]

I guess when your career high is in the 80 point range, 95 points seems silly. But 95 points isnt crazy to many Elite NHLers

He's clearly talking about the 56 goals, but by all means, continue the crusade.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Its not silly in current NHL. There were 5 centers on pace for 105+pts last season.

I guess when your career high is in the 80 point range, 95 points seems silly. But 95 points isnt crazy to many Elite NHLers

After all, Crosby paced for 94 points this year and all we're hearing is how he's dropping down the list of top centers like a rock.