Do you believe in Frederik Andersen? Would you re-sign?

[SeaOfBlue]

I've never understood this logic like "he isn't the hotter hand" etc. Last playoffs his SV% was .936, he was fantastic. But the other goalies were even better so the answer is to get someone cheaper and what, you expect that next time we need a .960 SV% or whatever it is to win in the playoffs then they're gonna somehow get it done even if takes a .960 SV% because ... they're not Andersen?

The Leafs' defense was fantastic and made it really easy for him. We only gave up 12 shots on the PK over 5 games (and almost 28 minutes of PK time). Our 5-on-5 defense was excellent too.

The issue was that he gave up some really bad goals and put us at disadvantages we should not have been in. He wasn't "bad", but he has yet to be better than the other guy, and that is a problem.

The man is still going to be our starter for the playoffs, but as of right now, he is my biggest concern on this roster by far. I don't have many concerns about this roster, but if he can't even outduel Korpisalo and Merzilkins despite a high-class performance from our defense, then how is he going to outclass a goalie like Vasilevsky if we play Tampa?

It's already a foregone conclusion that this guy is not getting a high-value contract from us. If he wants to stay, he's taking what we give him (within reason). He may be able to get better from a team like Carolina (who is still a good team and needs a goalie), but we are not going out of way to keep him IMO.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Markstrom is the exact same mediocrity and his contract is the exact same mistake we have to avoid making with Fred.

Holtby has been horrendois for years now.

If we wanted to throw money at a Markstrom-quality goalie, we'll throw it at Binnington. He's younger (27), a local kid, and has a Cup ring. Markstrom hasn't even been great this year either.

We can give Binnington a 5 or 6 year deal and he would expire when he is turning 33 or 34 years old. Andersen turns 33 next year, so we couldn't even give him a 1 year deal better than that.

 

[Le Cobra]

The key criticism here is Freddie doesn't bail out the team. He isn't usually the hotter hand in a goalie matchup. He doesn't steal them wins. He's been the first goalie to blink in 4 straight playoff series.

So if an environment where there's limited cap dollars, and Andersen can only play to the level reflective of the team defense around him, then why not take his salary and improve the team defense, and pay a cheaper goalie who will also only play to the level of the team in front of him?

agreed. Say what you will about Reimer but at least he gave Rask a goaltending duel up until game 7. If people here actually looked up the stats game by game you will realize Reimer STOLE games 5 AND 6. The only reason there was a game 7 at all was because of Reimer. One could also make the argument the Leafs wouldn’t have even made the playoffs in 2013 if not for Reimer (we were outside the playoff race before Reimer took over as our starter) . And that was a Leaf team without Matthews Marner Tavares and our stellar D. Andersen needs to go.

 

[meefer]

I’m not sure if I could play for the Leafs, had I ever been good enough to do so. The venom that can be spewed by people who call themselves a fan of the team is frightening. ‘Well if he can’t take it, we’re only interested in those who can, what’s wrong with criticizing, we’ve suffered for years, he’s not good enough, and a legion of similar comments...it does make me wonder whether their passion is healthy or not. Whether it’s Freddie, Willy, Jake (when he was here) and too many others to name, a part of this fan base is rabid when it comes time to consider moving on from a player. A player’s best days may be over, say thx and move on. It’s like a parlour game for some. And if your initial desire is to criticize this point of view, save your breath, it’s likely you and I have little in common. Any guy pulling on A Leaf’s jersey will gain my respect, he’s better at hockey than me, regardless of his success, I’ll at least speak of him with courtesy, not with a dismissive tone of superiority.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ever notice how the talking point surrounding Andersen's failures is "he couldn't have stopped that." And those goals up to the random softies he gives up and you have a goalie who is prone to giving up backbreaking goals. Winning in the playoffs isn't an easy task and guys like Potvin, Joseph and Belfour didn't win any cups for us but they provided that security and made saves they probably wouldn't have to give their teams a chance. With Andersen, every elimination game he's played in for us, he's been the one to cough it up.

I've noticed that whenever we lose, Andersen almost always seems to be the scapegoat, just like you've made him the scapegoat at the end if this paragraph, blaming him for the loss in a game where our zillion dollar offence couldn't score even one goal. BTW, do you remember game 6 against Boston when it was an elimination game for them? In retrospect, do you think maybe the rest of the team should shoulder some of the responsibility for coming out flat and getting outshot 40-24 at home when they had the chance to clinch the series and avoid game 7 in Boston altogether? I know it goes against the narrative of it's all Andersen's fault but still ...

That said, if we don't keep Andersen, there are few avenues I would think of looking at: current platoon situations where a team might lose a goalie, like CBJ as I mentioned above, or Georgiev in New York. Keep in mind, this option would have been more attractive if Campbell was proving himself and playing more. Or maybe you get a salary retained M-A Fleury. Or maybe we check in on Anaheim's John Gibson who is signed very long term and see if we couldn't put together a big package to make a permanent upgrade in net.

Georgiev had a great game against us and people were crazy about him all of a sudden. Here are some facts - he's in his 4th year, his SV% has gone from .918 to .914 to .910 to .897 this season and he's never even carried a fulltime workload. He's pretty clearly not as good as Andersen, in fact his trajectory seems to suggest he's at least as likely to be playing his way out of the NHL as he is on a path to becoming an average NHL starter so the idea that he'd be the answer here seems pretty far out there TBH.

There are no obvious answers. Dubas is the supposed genius who gets paid the big bucks, we'll see what he's able to come up with.

Markstrom is the exact same mediocrity and his contract is the exact same mistake we have to avoid making with Fred.

Holtby has been horrendois for years now.

Goes to show what a difficult challenge we're facing here.

The Leafs' defense was fantastic and made it really easy for him. We only gave up 12 shots on the PK over 5 games (and almost 28 minutes of PK time). Our 5-on-5 defense was excellent too.

The issue was that he gave up some really bad goals and put us at disadvantages we should not have been in. He wasn't "bad", but he has yet to be better than the other guy, and that is a problem.

The man is still going to be our starter for the playoffs, but as of right now, he is my biggest concern on this roster by far. I don't have many concerns about this roster, but if he can't even outduel Korpisalo and Merzilkins despite a high-class performance from our defense, then how is he going to outclass a goalie like Vasilevsky if we play Tampa?

It's already a foregone conclusion that this guy is not getting a high-value contract from us. If he wants to stay, he's taking what we give him (within reason). He may be able to get better from a team like Carolina (who is still a good team and needs a goalie), but we are not going out of way to keep him IMO.

I'm sorry but I simply can not agree with this thought process. When your goalie puts up a .936 SV%, he's done his job pretty well, more likely very well. The offence couldn't score, not sure why people want to let them off the hook.

If we wanted to throw money at a Markstrom-quality goalie, we'll throw it at Binnington. He's younger (27), a local kid, and has a Cup ring. Markstrom hasn't even been great this year either.

We can give Binnington a 5 or 6 year deal and he would expire when he is turning 33 or 34 years old. Andersen turns 33 next year, so we couldn't even give him a 1 year deal better than that.

So you suggest we throw money at a guy for 5-6 years who's in only his 3rd year as a starter and has seen his SV% go from .927 to .912 to .908 this season. What happens if we do that and halfway through next season he has a SV% of .905 and he's on the books for another 4-5 years? You just might find yourself thinking jeez, we could have resigned Andersen to a two year deal for less money, why didn't we just do that? F..king Dubas, what a moron.

I’m not sure if I could play for the Leafs, had I ever been good enough to do so. The venom that can be spewed by people who call themselves a fan of the team is frightening. ‘Well if he can’t take it, we’re only interested in those who can, what’s wrong with criticizing, we’ve suffered for years, he’s not good enough, and a legion of similar comments...it does make me wonder whether their passion is healthy or not. Whether it’s Freddie, Willy, Jake (when he was here) and too many others to name, a part of this fan base is rabid when it comes time to consider moving on from a player. A player’s best days may be over, say thx and move on. It’s like a parlour game for some. And if your initial desire is to criticize this point of view, save your breath, it’s likely you and I have little in common. Any guy pulling on A Leaf’s jersey will gain my respect, he’s better at hockey than me, regardless of his success, I’ll at least speak of him with courtesy, not with a dismissive tone of superiority.

Well said. It seems like too many people here are either 12 years old, or they just become virtual schoolyard bullies behind their keyboards when talking about the Leafs. The truth is that anyone who makes it to the NHL is better at his chosen profession then 99.99% of the people here are at theirs so yeah, a little courtesy seems more than appropriate.

 

[zeke]

Goes to show what a difficult challenge we're facing here.

pretty simply from my POV - just don't give real money to any goalie that's not elite.

you're better off getting two cheap mediocre goalies to battle it out and use the cap savings elsewhere - this not only upgrades the rest of the roster but gives you a better chance at getting good goaltending, too.

 

[socko]

Andersen's career arc shows a decline. There is a real argument as to whether he's even the best goalie on the team now. The only thing he really has going for him is he has shown he can play a lot of minutes.

I would say H.E. Double Hockey Sticks No. He had some good prime years for us but I really hope we don't bring him back.

 

[Critical13]

Goaltending is my single greatest concern about this team for maybe the 3rd year in a row.

Andy isn't bad, but the elite teams all have goalies that can steal you games and generally outplay the other team's goalie.

 

[zeke]

Goaltending is my single greatest concern about this team for maybe the 3rd year in a row.

Andy isn't bad, but the elite teams all have goalies that can steal you games and generally outplay the other team's goalie.

It's definitely frustrating.

When I look at other elite teams like TB BOS VEG I can't avoid seeing that they have only one clear advantage over us - goaltending.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Issue is Habs Jets and Flames all have better tending ... steal 4 games and you have an upset ... I would not bet on it occurring because we have too much defense/offense now but it is possible ... but unless we got to Soupy it is highly likely we are done in semis ... Freddy can't handle da pressure of for real hockey

 

[zeke]

Issue is Habs Jets and Flames all have better tending ... steal 4 games and you have an upset ... I would not bet on it occurring because we have too much defense/offense now but it is possible ... but unless we got to Soupy it is highly likely we are done in semis ... Freddy can't handle da pressure of for real hockey

Jets do, but their defense is horrific.

Habs and Flames have similar goaltending as we do - just like us for them their backups may well be their best goalie.

 

[Critical13]

It's definitely frustrating.

When I look at other elite teams like TB BOS VEG I can't avoid seeing that they have only one clear advantage over us - goaltending.

I am surprised Dubas has not made a significant move there, although Campbell is looking like a coup. I suppose the move could come this offseason, but I don't have any faith in us beating those teams with Andersen. We would need to outplay them by a considerable margin each game to have a chance, because their tenders cover up mistakes so much better.

There is a small part of me that wants to believe Dubas will make a deal to move out Andersen for assets and flip those assets+ for a better long term solution. It just feels so unrealistic, though, with the flat cap reality.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Jets do, but their defense is horrific.

Habs and Flames have similar goaltending as we do - just like us for them their backups may well be their best goalie.

Price and Markstrom have taken teams in 2nd/3rd round of playoffs ... Freddy is 0-8 when it counts ... I could not give a r*ts *ss about regular season hockey

 

[hotpaws]

It's definitely frustrating.

When I look at other elite teams like TB BOS VEG I can't avoid seeing that they have only one clear advantage over us - goaltending.

and i can't avoid seeing these teams spend quite a bit more on their goalies

Tor - 6.65m
Bos - 9.25m
T-Bay - 10.8m
Veg - 12m

 

[zeke]

Andersen (31): .906 1yr, .909 2yrs, .913 3yrs, .916 career
Markstrom (31): .907 1yr, .915 2yrs, .914 3yrs, .910 career
CareyPrice (33): .898 1yr, .907 2yrs, .912 3yrs, .917 career

Campbell (28): .951 1yr, .909 2yrs, .918 3yrs, .918 career
Rittich (28): .904 1yr, .906 2yrs, .908 3yrs, .908 career
Allen (30): .921 1yr, .925 2yrs, .914 3yrs, .913 career

 

[zeke]

and i can't avoid seeing these teams spend quite a bit more on their goalies

Tor - 6.65m
Bos - 9.25m
T-Bay - 10.8m
Veg - 12m

True, and none of them have won a cup paying their goalies that much.

Recent Cup Winners:

TBL '20: $4.80m
STL '19: $5.00m
WSH '18: $7.60m
PIT '17: $6.38m
PIT '16: $6.38m

 

[hotpaws]

people need to stop crapping on Andy and instead offer potential replacements

as a reminder here were last off seasons potential replacements

Holtby
Markstrom
Murray
Lehner

3 of the 4 are having worse seasons than Andy and the 4th hasn't been any better

 

[zeke]

people need to stop crapping on Andy and instead offer potential replacements

as a reminder here were last off seasons potential replacements

Holtby
Markstrom
Murray
Lehner

3 of the 4 are having a worse seasons than Andy and the 4th hasn't been any better

This obsession with needing to pay some "name" goalie is silly, and leads to obviously horrendous signings like Holtby and Murray and all sorts of others.

Campbell/Khudobin would have been a fine goalie combo, and there were many other similar options.

 

[GBLeaf]

Sorry to burst your bubble but he is a middling goalie. His save % in all situations is about league average for the last 3 years now.

More importantly he's been outgoaltended in the playoffs for at least 5 years running.

I said he is a middling goalie. Hence why he gets paid around the area of being a middling Goalie.

If you can go get better, for sure do it. But how long was it before Andersen we were desperate to have someone even like Andersen?

Just be careful what you wish for.

 

[ToneDog]

This obsession with needing to pay some "name" goalie is silly, and leads to obviously horrendous signings like Holtby and Murray and all sorts of others.

Campbell/Khudobin would have been a fine goalie combo, and there were many other similar options.

Greiss was also out there. If Andy is not the answer, then I would say Dubas blew it in the off season by not trading him (as the rumours went) and signing a UFA. IIRC Dubas said something about wanting to get a good return for which I am guessing there was nobody willing to meet his price.

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

The Leafs' defense was fantastic and made it really easy for him. We only gave up 12 shots on the PK over 5 games (and almost 28 minutes of PK time). Our 5-on-5 defense was excellent too.

The issue was that he gave up some really bad goals and put us at disadvantages we should not have been in. He wasn't "bad", but he has yet to be better than the other guy, and that is a problem.

The man is still going to be our starter for the playoffs, but as of right now, he is my biggest concern on this roster by far. I don't have many concerns about this roster, but if he can't even outduel Korpisalo and Merzilkins despite a high-class performance from our defense, then how is he going to outclass a goalie like Vasilevsky if we play Tampa?

It's already a foregone conclusion that this guy is not getting a high-value contract from us. If he wants to stay, he's taking what we give him (within reason). He may be able to get better from a team like Carolina (who is still a good team and needs a goalie), but we are not going out of way to keep him IMO.

This line of thinking makes no sense. The goalies dont play against each other. They play against the other teams skaters. I mean a pylon would probably be able to outduel Prime Brodeur if my team has NHL skaters and the other team has toddlers.

The 30M offense laid eggs in that series and somehow the blame is on 1 person for not stopping 6/100 shots is ridiculous.

I still cannot fathom how everyone seems so comfortable that our offense got shutout for 2 seperate games but i guess it is easier to just scapegoat Andersen.

 

[stickty111]

This line of thinking makes no sense. The goalies dont play against each other. They play against the other teams skaters. I mean a pylon would probably be able to outduel Prime Brodeur if my team has NHL skaters and the other team has toddlers.

The 30M offense laid eggs in that series and somehow the blame is on 1 person for not stopping 6/100 shots is ridiculous.

I still cannot fathom how everyone seems so comfortable that our offense got shutout for 2 seperate games but i guess it is easier to just scapegoat Andersen.

The offense deserves blame for not finishing on their chances, but that doesn't excuse Andersen from allowing bad goals at critical times. Game 1, 1-0 goal can't go in. Game 3, you need make a stop to prevent a comeback. Game 5, 2-0 goal is deflating.

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

The offense deserves blame for not finishing on their chances, but that doesn't excuse Andersen from allowing bad goals at critical times. Game 1, 1-0 goal can't go in. Game 3, you need make a stop to prevent a comeback. Game 5, 2-0 goal is deflating.

Does it matter ? If that goal was a triple deflection or an own goal or 5 v 1 breakaway. The goal counts the same. The job of the goalie is to keep the team in the game which he did for all of the 7 games.

Now if you are saying that 1 bad goal is able to shatter the spirits of our superstars than that is a different conversation that needs to happen.

 

[Gary Nylund]

pretty simply from my POV - just don't give real money to any goalie that's not elite.

you're better off getting two cheap mediocre goalies to battle it out and use the cap savings elsewhere - this not only upgrades the rest of the roster but gives you a better chance at getting good goaltending, too.

How cheap is cheap? You posted recent cup winners, looks like they spent about 6m on average on goalies and back in 2016 the cap was less so ... aren't we spending about that as it is now?

It's gonna be interesting to say the least to see what Dubas does here. If we do start next season with two cheap mediocre goalies then the only thing we can be sure of is that people here will lose their minds.

 

[Martin Skoula]

This line of thinking makes no sense. The goalies dont play against each other. They play against the other teams skaters. I mean a pylon would probably be able to outduel Prime Brodeur if my team has NHL skaters and the other team has toddlers.

The 30M offense laid eggs in that series and somehow the blame is on 1 person for not stopping 6/100 shots is ridiculous.

I still cannot fathom how everyone seems so comfortable that our offense got shutout for 2 seperate games but i guess it is easier to just scapegoat Andersen.

We were playing a team built from the ground up to play a trap game. At 0-0, they have to take chances and open themselves up to our fast counter attack. As soon as Andersen spots them a 1-2 goal lead, they no longer have to take chances and start to clog the neutral zone.

Game 1 against Columbus, they score a minute into the 3rd period to break the 0-0 tie. We had 8 HD chances in the 1st + 2nd, but only 1 in the 3rd. Same story with Game 5, as soon as they score 2 we stop getting HD shots and start taking bad shots from the perimeter.

The forwards should have been better, sure. To say that Andersen's performance has no impact on our offense is wrong though.